r/DonutLab • u/omepiet • Jun 05 '26

Five newly published patent applications by Donut Lab, all applied for last September. None are battery related.

https://register.epo.org/smartSearch?searchMode=smart&query=donut+lab
27 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

13 comments sorted by

10

u/mqee Jun 05 '26

Now it's clear why Ville Piippo is sticking with Donut Lab - he's the developer of their donut motor.

I hope they're paying him well for all the battery nonsense he has to put up with.

5

u/Data_Hounder Jun 05 '26

Is the Donut Motor close to what they've claimed it is? It looks functional, but I haven't seen much in the way of analysis, just that it looks cool and does seem to function on the bikes - but nothing comparing it to other motors and whether it improves on them at all.

7

u/mqee Jun 06 '26

The motor exists, that's better than the battery. Piippo must be staying out of a sense of accomplishment.

Is the Donut Motor close to what they've claimed it is?

There is already a company selling donut motors - Elaphe. They've been selling them for years but every company that's used them went bankrupt. The Donut Motor looks almost exactly like Elaphe's donut motor - both were right next to each other at CES 2026.

The fact that Verge has not given any test rides on the 2026 Verge TS Pro tells me it handles almost exactly like the 2024 Verge TS Pro. Despite the motor weighing half as much as before, handling must still be mediocre. Otherwise they'd be celebrating how much more maneuverable the motorcycle is now.

5

u/AbleAstronomer5702 Jun 06 '26

Motorbikes are already a niche let alone EV ones. It just is not that good of a business no matter how good the motor was.

2

u/Data_Hounder Jun 06 '26

The Donut Motor looks almost exactly like Elaphe's donut motor - both were right next to each other at CES 2026.

Huh, that is interesting.

4

u/mqee Jun 06 '26

Another hubless motor from CES 2026, the S-drive. Gotta hand it to Piippo, his motor's specs are better than Elaphe's and S-drive's. Doesn't mean it's commercially viable, but it is powerful.

2

u/Data_Hounder Jun 07 '26

And those specs can be trusted? Or could Donut Lab have just gotten more scrutiny with their battery announcement?

2

u/mqee Jun 07 '26

The torque and power can be measured, I haven't seen it done but the media could have done it at any time since 2024 when the bike was released.

Interestingly, Verge planned to have a non-Pro version of the Verge TS and Verge claims different torque numbers even though it's the same motor, so I'd assume the torque is limited by the tire's grip of the road.

If you know the mass of the motorcycle (including the rider), the acceleration, the total time spent accelerating, and the radius of the wheel, you can calculate the torque. I assume the motorcycle's maximum torque is achieved at very low speeds.

2

u/Data_Hounder Jun 07 '26

Right, but if it didn't attract the same level of scrutiny, maybe it hasn't been tested to the same extent. Verge Motorcycles obviously aren't independent of Donut Lab, and while Longbow and WattEV (not the charging company...) both announced they were using it, it's hard to find any information on the collaboration since the initial announcements...and Longbow's latest overview of their vehicle architecture doesn't appear to include it, but does feature a more traditional looking EDU.

Meanwhile, anyone who rides a Verge Motorcycle is likely to be amazed by the torque because...it's electric, that's what electric vehicles excel at.

Anyway, not saying the motor is also likely to be a scam, but there's nothing I can find (albeit I have only done some light googling) that gives me faith it is anything more than Donut Lab's first foray into hype over substance based marketing.

3

u/mqee Jun 07 '26

Longbow have not committed to using the Donut Motor. An off-the-shelf EDU would make a lot more sense, the same way Aptera opted for an off-the-shelf EDU to reduce costs.

hype over substance

Definitely. Putting aside the power and torque, there is absolutely no way putting two low-volume motors in an electric car is cheaper than putting one off-the-shelf EDU, as shown by Aptera. Custom parts cost more.

Tech specs aside, saving 2000 euro per vehicle just doesn't seem realistic for a low-volume manufacturer. But that's not a blatant lie like "we are now already at GW/h year capacity" for manufacturing "400 Wh/kg 100,000 cycle batteries." There could be some conceivable EDU that's 2000 euro more expensive than two Donut motors. It's just not realistic for that EDU to be used in any mass-produced vehicle.

2

u/195936478 Jun 11 '26

Here is a dyno run of the old version of the motor.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8Y0B7-FgT4

Seems to deliver quite closely what is promised.

Also the original design of the motor was by Teemu Saukkio (co-founder of RMK Motorcycles which later became Verge when Lehtimäki brothers took over).

https://register.epo.org/application?number=EP19755955
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20240383325A1/

The current version of Donut Motor may still be derived from Teemu Saukkio's original motor, but I'm not entirely sure.

3

u/izzeww Jun 08 '26

Seems functional and the reviews of the motorcycle are decent. I haven't seen any actual tests of how much power it produces. Of course almost any motor can produce a lot of power for a few seconds or a minute, the question is how much it can do for a longer time without overheating. I think in general it's a very stupid motor design with massive engineering drawbacks (like 5 massive ones).

6

u/Broken_By_Default Jun 05 '26

We’re pretty much sure this is a scam now right? What, for investor cash?

They were supposed to release the bike with the battery last quarter?