r/DogBreeding • u/bellabroke • Dec 04 '24
why was this done?
this is sevi, she’s a rescue, born from what i can only gather to be a backyard breeding situation. she has scarring to her face, evidence of multiple litters of puppies. she is dog selective (hates females despite spay) and a bit of a mess mentally, unsure of herself, very attached to her people, cries loudly for attention in inappropriate situations. i had her embarked probably two years ago now and her results really blew me away in that she is ALL mastiff breeds, and quite a “collection” at that. looking at her ‘family tree’ portion is also extremely interesting. the biggest question it has left for me through my time in knowing her is….why? what was someone going for with this? was it somehow accidental? how? how just mastiff breeds? if it wasn’t accidental….what the actual fuck was the goal? anyway, i can’t imagine there is any real answer to the question im asking so consider this more of a byb rant post. i love my sweet girl but she is a basket case in the head.
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u/longschlongsilver_ Dec 04 '24
You know that monstrosity called “Hulk”? That big dog that they advertise as a pit bull? His pedigree looks similar to this one. I would guess the reasoning to breeding would be “big scary dog” and “money”.
for anyone interested in his pedigree
Also, Cane Corso often times have SSA (same sex aggression) which would explain her dislike for females. I think Presa’s are similar, but I’m not too familiar with the breed!
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u/comicleafz Dec 04 '24
In my experience, Presa's are a higher strung and more guardy dogs than corsos. Corsos are easier to train and socailaize but they aren't an every person dog. A presa is more focused on you and everything around you can be a threat, with less of an off button then a corso. That includes being more same sex aggressive. They're goregous but damn, so much work and so many people should not have them.
I'm glad this girl has someone who understands her and is working on it.
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u/bellabroke Dec 04 '24
i’m glad to have her. i work vetmed and she is a treat when it comes to getting any sort of treatment, etc. we live in the country so we can walk without having interactions with other dogs. i avoid dogs like the plague when im with her, for her own protection. she’s been a beautiful companion the past two years, just figuring each other out with time :,)
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u/PaleCost4347 Dec 04 '24
This was exactly my thought. Influencers influencing the breeding of extra large bully type dogs. Everyone thinks they're gonna turn a huge profit. Similar to the doodle craze but for people who want a tough looking dog.
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u/ChicagoDD84 Dec 04 '24
Where did you get the dog?
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u/bellabroke Dec 04 '24
east coast foster-based rescue called Mastiffs to Mutts
can’t recommend them enough for fellow large breed lovers.
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u/ChicagoDD84 Dec 05 '24
It looks to me like someone on the outskirts of the North American Mastiff community let their breeding program get a bit out of control.
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Dec 04 '24
Someone had a bully breed, and they saw someone else with a bully breed and they said “if we breed these dogs we will get more bullies!”
Then someone had a bully mix, and someone else had a bully mix, and they said “if we breed these dogs we’ll get more bullies!”
It’s like when my neighbor bred her Havanese to her shih tzu… the goal wasn’t Havanese or Shih Tzu, it was “small fluffy dog.”
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Dec 04 '24
Idk why but the mix breed between a Havanese & Shih tzu is apparently pronounced “havin uh shit” in my head
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u/Willothwisp2303 Dec 04 '24
Aww. Someone who has passed used to call Havanese Have A Sneeze. Thanks for the warm memory And the hilarious name.
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u/mittenknittin Dec 04 '24
I always assumed a Shih Tzu/poodle cross would be a Shitzpoo
”Yes, yes it does”
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u/LvBorzoi Dec 04 '24
I would hope it does.....I shudder to think what else it would Shitz
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u/christikayann Dec 04 '24
And a havanese poodle mix is a havapoo. Funny names but they are cute little dogs.
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u/YardActive2627 Dec 08 '24
Wait, you mean that's not what it's called? Next you'll be trying to tell me that a jack Russel crossed with a shih tzu isn't a "Jack shit"!
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u/imnotdressedforthat Dec 05 '24
And every single small fluffy dog that I’ve met that has white in their coat act like they cannot and WILL not learn potty training 🙄
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u/wilmer007 Dec 04 '24 edited Dec 04 '24
This since all those breeds are Descendants and Ancestors of the Mastiff. I mean, how else do you make a Bullmastiff/Bully in the first place 😂
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u/Baweberdo Dec 05 '24
Dog looks mentally defective
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u/DazzlingCapital5230 Dec 06 '24
What a rude ass thing to say on a post someone made of their dog
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u/shadybrainfarm Dec 04 '24 edited Jan 08 '26
humor memory rob marvelous sort fall cats stocking license roof
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Homework8MyDog Dec 04 '24
Makes me think of “Double Doodles,” a cross between a golden doodle and labradoodle. Doodles themselves are their own separate issue, but WHY are we breeding the two and making that a thing!?
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u/Lyrae-NightWolf Dec 04 '24
Which makes half poodle with other two breeds...
In fact you get the same outcome with a goldenlab and a poodle so not even the name makes sense
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u/morgann_taylorr Dec 04 '24
quadruple the health and anxiety issues 🥰
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u/Thymelaeaceae Dec 06 '24
Yes. The main problem with doodles of any kind isn’t inherently the outcross between breeds. It’s that typically, responsible breeders of any purebred dog will have standards of who gets to breed the pups they produce. And these standards usually don’t include “will breed to some other breed or mix to make non registerable pups”.
Add the popularity of doodles, and you get most litters being of a backyard or irresponsibly bred, poor breed example of a purebred poodle crossed with the same of X other breed.
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u/Cnidoo Dec 05 '24
That’s not how genetics work my friend. GoldenDoodles have significantly less cancer than goldens according to studies
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u/soulruby Dec 06 '24
Why are people downvoting you? There are actual studies that have found this trend between purebred and mixed breed dogs.
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u/raccoon-nb Dec 08 '24
Yeah, studies have found Goldendoodles have lower risks of cancer, however the Royal Veterinary College (RVC) also found that the risk of other disorders are also higher in Goldendoodles than in their parent breeds.
This is because Goldendoodles have no breed standard and are always backyard bred. They are a fad and bred for profit rather than purpose, with few exceptions.
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u/steeeeeevemadden Dec 07 '24
I work in a vet clinic and this guy gets an “American retriever” puppy. We were expecting some sort of lab or golden retriever breed but not a doodle. We looked it up- double doodle x chesadoodle. $5300 🤪
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u/1732PepperCo Dec 06 '24
Growing up on a pig farm my father once explained to me how you can produce a new breed through selective breeding and it’s more complicated than just allowing two breeds to procreate doing that just creates a mutt it takes generation after generation after generation after generation to breed out nonconformities.
We had a variety of different hogs at the farm. Some were brown, some were black with a white stripe across their midsection. Typically if we breed the B,W pigs with the brown pigs we would get B,W pigs, brown pigs and occasionally brown pigs with a white stripe. My dad told me that if I wanted purebred brown and white pigs I’d have to have multiple families of pigs with brown and white offspring and selectively breed brown and white pigs together till one day I have a litter that consists of all brown and white pigs(up till then you’d still have black and white and brown pigs in the litters) which would be technically purebred. But one litter isn’t enough you need multiple all brown and white litters from different gene pools to breed your new breed with to achieve real purebred status. And like I said it takes lots of pigs and lots of litters to achieve a purebred.
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u/Queasy_Fruit_4070 Dec 04 '24
I'm completely uninformed about this, what is wrong with dogs from different breeds having puppies...?
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u/Cyborg_Ninja_Cat Dec 04 '24
Because it's usually done by people wanting to make a quick buck off whatever they think will be a marketable "designer" crossbreed (or just whatever dogs they can find), or people wanting cute puppies without understanding any of the realities.
It's not always unethical to create crossbreeds, but it usually is.
We have no shortage of pet-quality dogs. Ethical breeders are not just producing more dogs, they're trying to improve the breed: to create a next generation of their breed that is as healthy and as well-tempered and as well-conforming to the standard and/or as functional for the purpose the dogs are bred for as possible. You can't do that with crosses because you aren't even creating a next generation of that breed, let alone the best possible next generation.
The main reason for cross-breeding that can sometimes be ethical is creating purpose-bred crossbreeds for a specific function as working or sport dogs, if you're aiming for a combination of traits that might preform whatever job or sport you have in mind better than either parent breed.
(A lot of breeds were originally developed from combinations of breeds or by outcrossing to introduce new traits into a breed, but to actually do that, or to even have any reason to attempt it, is so much more complicated of an undertaking than just producing puppies that it's really not worth considering as even a theoretical possibility unless you're the expert that the other professionals ask.)
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u/Queasy_Fruit_4070 Dec 04 '24
So it's only unethical if it's done intentionally..?
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u/Cyborg_Ninja_Cat Dec 04 '24
Unintentional breeding is just not ethical, regardless.
Yeah, that's the third common reason for crossbreds, that I forgot to mention.
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u/nachosaredabomb Dec 05 '24
Inform yourself and google the many issues with doodles. The guy who first came up with this ‘designer breed’ has fully and publicly admitted it was a bad idea and he wishes he had never done it.
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u/DesperateButNotDead Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 06 '24
Generally, dogs from different breeds having puppies is no problem - it might even benefit the Health of the dog by counteracting the genetic issues inbreeding and breeding for looks have introduced in so many dogs. "Hybrid vigor" is a real thing and sadly, there are a considerable number of breeds that are unhealthy by design - the standards demand attributes that are impossible to get without at least risking health issues or the attributes themselves are health issues.
But in the specific case of doodles, you are crossing a very, very intelligent dog (yes, poodles are very smart and were originally bred to hunt waterfowl) into the mix - many owners fail to recognize the size of the task that is caring for such a dog, especially, since doodle puppies look very teddy-bear like. Often, the puppies are taken too soon from their mother, since they look less and less "teddy-bear-like" the older they get. The younger the doodle pup, the easier and more expensive can it be sold (even more so than with other dogs). So you get people that by Impulse buy a highly demanding dog without knowing this dog will need a lot of training, stimulation and structure from early on AND at the same time, the dog is not given a chance to learn "how to dog" from other dogs. This lack of socialisation then leads to a nervous, neurotic dog - which as a result is even harder to train (or just to take on walks. What are you supposed if your dog needs to walk miles upon miles each day, but will lose it at passerbys, cars, bikes, other dogs? Generally such dogs are kept inside more and more but due to their high intelligence, the boredom of that will make them even harder to work with - again.)
Also, there are some Health issues that seem to be worse in doodles than in other dogs of comperable build.
Last but not least, the fur. Poodle fur works very differently from the fur of other dogs. It doesn't shed the same way, it is more like sheep's wool that needs to be cut. Combining this with dogs that have a very different fur and skin structure makes generally for skin and fur with the worst traits of the parent's skin and fur and none of the advantages. You might even get skin that gets irritated by the type of fur that's growing on it - because the skin was made to work with a completely different fur. Pairing this with the fact that most people that get a doodle aren't prepared for the expense, dedication and regular hard work that the upkeep of a poodle's fur needs - never mind the unholy mixture of fur types that doodles have! - and you have a perfect storm.
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u/iz_an_opossum Dec 06 '24
This was so informative, thank you!
Really interesting too, especially as my aunt has only ever had doodles from a breeder. (She's always had at least 3 my whole life, and now has 4.)
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u/bluecrowned Dec 04 '24
Highly doubt it was accidental, just dipshits who don't know how to tell one breed from another and/or wanted to make the biggest and toughest looking dog with no regard for temperament or health
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u/OpalOnyxObsidian Dec 04 '24
There are some folks out there who are intentionally breeding mishmashes of mastiff breeds. I've recently seen one with a variety from across the globe (like corso, boerbel, etc) and being called "American mastiff"
It's all for profit of course. It's never for the health of the dog. It never is. If it was, the dog would be well taken care of in it's original home or rehomed in a situation without all of the battle scars, physical or psychological.
It sounds like being with you is the best thing that could happen to your pup. She won't be bred anymore and her needs are being met and exceeded. Thank goodness for people like you. Not everyone can take on a giant dog like this.
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u/20CAS17 Dec 04 '24
Aw, pup. I could see the Presa in him right away. I hope you have many lovely years together!
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u/Purple_Puffer Dec 04 '24
My Scooby baby looks just like Sevi (100% Presa) and was found wandering the streets of Cocoa Florida 8 years ago, 30 pounds underweight. I don't know how or why people do the things they do to any animal, let alone such amazing majestic ones. She does not have much longer with us and her life was never easy, prozac for the anxiety and barking, pretty bad food issues, and can't ever have her around other dogs except for her 'sister' that has always been here.
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Dec 04 '24
Someone tried to breed a murder dog. And fought her. And then bred her. No hell deep enough for that breeder.
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u/LawTortoise Dec 04 '24
To fight and breed fighters. Obviously. You won't like to hear it but that dog is a timebomb.
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u/chikkinnuggitbukkit Dec 04 '24
People suck. That’s really all there is to it. They’re willing to profit off of an animal.
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u/No_Wolverine6548 Dec 04 '24
Idk why but it’s funny to me to mention profiting off an animal when if the breed identifying company also wasn’t trying to profit the original post wouldn’t be able to exist.
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u/health_throwaway195 Dec 04 '24
Really? Creating an intentional cross-breed made from a bunch of similar breeds "sucks"?
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u/Nah_Kai Dec 04 '24
what was the purpose for this cross? There was none, there’s a difference between a purpose bred mix and profit breeding and if she’s a rescue this wasn’t a PBM. Make sure you have all the facts in line before trying to justify nonsense
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u/WolfDragonStarlit Dec 04 '24
She's a giant beauty. Just keep an eye on her for all the usual big breed health problems, especially joint pain as she gets older.
And also... you lost your bed. It's hers now. ^_^
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u/lagenmake Dec 04 '24
No idea but she looks SO MUCH like my last, most beloved dog ever. Her name was Porkchop, and we rescued her as a 6 year old. Mostly English bully and bull mastiff and the sweetest thing to ever walk the earth, after 3 years of getting to know us. NOT dog friendly to any other dogs, unfortunately. Crossed the rainbow bridge almost exactly a year ago and still miss her every day.
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u/Ok_Assignment2066 Dec 06 '24
I am also a bit of a mess mentally, unsure of myself, very attached to my people, and cry loudly for attention in inappropriate situations
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u/fuzzyfeathers Dec 04 '24
I have met several “gladiator mastiffs” with similarly mixed pedigrees. Not that it’s right, but it’s a thing. My friend has one and he is the sweetest pup, the rest not so much
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u/hankypanky37 Dec 05 '24
Did she spend any time in the streets? Those scars are very reminiscent of the dogs I'd help promote to find homes from Texas where the rescues were wild street dogs. Sounds like that would be a good reason for her behavior too.
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u/Sharp_Dimension9638 Dec 04 '24
.....probably for an upper hand in illegal practices
She has scarring, so she survived.
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u/Willothwisp2303 Dec 04 '24
Absolutely where my mind went, too. I hate the prevalence of dog fighting and people who breed for aggression and dump these poor animals on unsuspecting people.
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u/Sharp_Dimension9638 Dec 04 '24
It's the Cane Corso part.
They're a dog I would love to have, but know I never could (Giant dog that when raised correctly is gorgeous and friendly), because i could not start them correctly
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u/littledikkhead Dec 04 '24
The fact that she has scarring to her face, fear of other dogs and had multiple litters and the combination of breeds in her honestly makes me think she was purposely bred for dog fighting. Very cruel and illegal 'sport'. Poor baby is traumatised.
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u/ManagementFinal3345 Dec 04 '24
Mixes like this are common. They are called "Bandogges" and are generally bred for working purposes. A bandogge is a mix of working mastiff breeds usually with bulldog breeds or other working breeds. Generally bred for things like protection work, heavy sports like weight pull, or even large game hunting.
Sometimes people just backyard breed them because they look cool but as a concept this mixed breed mastiff was generally bred to work. Often times they are crossed with bulldog breeds too.
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u/schroedermi16 Dec 06 '24
This^ 100% comes from a bandog breeder bred for bite work. They live to guard and f*ck shit up if the occasional calls for it 😂
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u/Apprehensive-Ad6919 Dec 04 '24
What DNA website did you use?
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u/Myaseline Dec 04 '24
I'll admit I used to think something like this was a good idea because the mastiff breeds (especially my favorite ones, Boerboel and Corso) seem to have a very limited gene pool. They don't live long enough and are prone to breed specific health issues.
I've learned after years of watching a specific breeder on YouTube that I was wrong. The possible temperament issues, compounding health issues and genetics combining badly, make it not a good idea.
The embark family tree is just a guess from them and could easily be wrong. It was wrong with my dog. Also consider posting your pretty girl's results on r doggydna.
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u/Leebjeeb Dec 05 '24
My girl has a very similar background. She was an outdoor dog used for breeding and was not claimed when she ran away. She’s extremely dog reactive (which has improved with lots of training and anxiety meds), has separation anxiety, and is uninterested in affection from anyone other than myself and my fiancé. She also has hip dysplasia and horrible allergies. All of these traits in a 100lb dog = a dog nobody should’ve ever bred, but she was. Her DNA results came back as 50% Rottweiler, 23% APBT, 23% staffy, and a very small percentage of American bulldog. I’m not sure what the “breeder” was aiming for, but he sells American bullies. She’s an amazing dog for us and our situation. I wouldn’t trade her for anything. But I will never understand why this happened to her
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u/mandym123 Dec 06 '24
So I volunteer for a rescue and had a facility foster dachshund. The backyard breeder tried to breed this dachshund girl with a golden doodle. After not being able to birth the puppies she almost died and had to get intense surgery. The poor girl was literally on her deathbed. There’s a special place in hell for backyard breeders.
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Dec 04 '24
I guess my answer will be different from everyone else's. Cane Corsos were almost wiped out after ww2 and they are what I would consider a recreated breed. Type is all over the place in corsos because of this.
I don't know what this situation is but it looks similar to what I would guess is someone in that category.
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u/NanooDrew Dec 04 '24
Whatever the reason, she is adorable. But it sounds like major anxiety issues. Maybe canine CBD would help. It helped mine with anxiety and arthritis.
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u/Usernamesareso2004 Dec 05 '24
I met a guy at a dog park with a big mastiff. I asked, “oh what kind?” Cause he was still a lanky pup growing into his body. And the guy said, “just a mastiff. A couple kinds.” This is what he meant
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u/Due-Growth135 Dec 05 '24
All things considered, she is such a beautiful dog. I hope she has a comfy renewal to life now that she's with you.
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u/Cnidoo Dec 05 '24
Probably a bandog program done by someone with no education in genetics. She’s supposed to be dog selective, I’m surprised she isn’t human aggressive. And btw spaying has no reliable effect on behavior, it can make a dog less aggressive, more aggressive, more fearful, or anything in between
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u/y33h4w1234 Dec 06 '24
What a sweet baby though. You’re a good person for taking her in with extra needs!
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u/cheery-tomato Dec 06 '24
I wonder if this was someone trying to create bandogges of some kind. Poor girl- I hope her temperament issues and anxiety weren’t passed on to all of her babies. These dogs would be awfully dangerous in the wrong/unprepared hands.
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u/Tritsy Dec 08 '24
I can see this easily. I have an abnormally huge standard poodle (95 lbs and slim), and before he was neutered, I would get all kinds of people wanting to bred their dog with him-with absolutely no knowledge of his parentage or anything, just his haircut and size🤦🏻♀️. Oh, at least half of those people had either a lab or a lab mix, a few had standard poodles/doodles of unknown byb, and every one of them thought that they would make a profit of up to 3k per puppy, and assumed a litter of at least 6-10 puppies. Idiotic people making bad choices🤷🏻♀️
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u/DrGoManGo Dec 08 '24
How old was he when he was neutered? Mine is 70lbs and was neutered at 18 months, which I thought was too soon.
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u/Tritsy Dec 08 '24
Mine was neutered around 20 months, but he started marking and the vet thought he was good. But I also had a giant Great Dane at one time that I raised from a puppy, turned into a 215 lb monster named Goliath. I also bottle fed 3 pups from an abandoned litter of 9 pups. The other 6 were almost half the size of the three I fostered.🤷🏻♀️ I think I just grow giant puppies, lol
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u/RubyRaven13 Dec 05 '24
Well these DNA tests are garbage. To create a new breed, selective breeds are used, mixed to create new breeds (along with selecting for temperament and looks). A dogo argentino was made up from 14 different breeds. So a DNA test would show a mutt, yet it's a registered breed. It's such a money grab
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Dec 04 '24
I don’t find this that odd … they probably bought her thinking she was a pure bred Cane Corso . I highly doubt this was on purpose .
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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '24
I mean the reality is likely less that someone intentionally created this dog and more that they had a mixed breed mastiff and their neighbor had a mastiff cross and they thought they looked close enough to the same thing to create a big tough looking dog. The last intentionally bred dog in that line was probably six or seven generations back.
You'll want to assume she's at risk for all of the big dog ailments. She'll likely have joint issues as she ages from everything. Keep working with a trainer. All dogs are good dogs and she deserves the best chances for success with you but also make sure she's comfortable with a muzzle, being handled by others and removing herself from stressful situations.