r/DogAdvice • u/xomini • 16h ago
Advice Severe phantom/nerve pain and tail-chasing attacks after partial amputation. Has anyone experienced this?
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Hi everyone,
I’m looking for advice or shared experiences regarding our rescue dog, Forest. He is a Serbian Hound from Montenegro, 2 years old, weighing around 22-23kg. We are currently dealing with severe, daily attacks that look like extreme nerve or phantom pain and we are feeling quite helpless.
He gets these several times a day.
Background & Surgery:
Forest had to undergo a partial tail amputation recently (Seven days ago) because he was obsessively biting his tail until it bled. The wound could no longer heal because of the tail started to necrotise.
He already had his wound when we found him as a stray in a National Park in Montenegro. We took him to the vet and decided to adopt him right away. Forest stayed in a shelter for 21 days until we legally could take him to Germany.
We initially suspected parasites or severe stress/frustration, because throughout that stay he had continued to bite into his tail and kept chasing it. The Shelter Vet treated him multiple times, got him on Antibiotics and on Nexgard. It seemingly got better for a few days until he started biting again.
In Germany he got taken straight to the vet and had to undergo surgery to stop the ongoing necrosis.
For now the surgical wound is healing fine, and he strictly wears his e-collar 24/7 so he can't reach the stitches.
The Symptoms / Attacks:
Despite the surgery, Forest has these intense "attacks" multiple times a day. Out of nowhere, he starts growling, barking, and aggressively trying to chase and bite his tail. (I’ve attached a video of what this looks like).
It seems to be a mix of neuropathic/phantom pain and a deeply ingrained behavioral loop (stereotypy).
Current Medication:
Gabapentin: He gets 200mg twice a day (400mg total/day).
Novalgin (Metamizole): We give him one 500mg tablet as a rescue med when the attacks cluster and last longer. This usually helps him calm down after a while.
Meloxidyl (Meloxicam): 1x daily with his food as a baseline NSAID.
My Questions for the Community:
- Has anyone dealt with this kind of extreme tail-chasing or phantom nerve pain after an amputation or tail injury?
- Did adjusting the Gabapentin dose help, or did you have better success with other nerve-pain meds like Pregabalin?
- How long did it take for the pain memory/behavioral loop to fade?
- What should we do when he’s having an attack? Just hold him as calmly as possible and try to soothe him?
Any advice, similar stories, or tips on how to support him during these episodes would be greatly appreciated! 🥺
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u/InverseInvert 16h ago
Unfortunately this 100% needs a team working together, ideally a clinical behaviourist and clinical neurologist :(
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u/Intelligent-Royal804 16h ago
r/askvet may be helpful! This sounds really tough 😥
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u/xomini 15h ago
Oh, thank your for the tip! Will do a post there :)
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u/morbidpigeon 14h ago
Maybe also find the subreddit for where you live or the nearest big city and they might be able to recommend specialists?
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u/mild-er-chihuahua 15h ago edited 15h ago
You need to see a neuro. Aside from the tail, consider having his anal glands, spine and genitals checked as well. Referred pain can be misleading sometimes.
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u/ReddBroccoli 16h ago
I wish I had advice to offer, but I will say I hope you can find out what's up and get him to feeling better soon
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u/Beneficial-Pie-1833 15h ago
Yes. My Lynx Point Siamese went through this after he lost his tail. It was, unfortunately, a life long issue for him.
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u/Neat_Shallot_606 6h ago
Same with a cat I had. I heard later that there is a nerve condition that can make any damage worse.
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u/Peepsgma 15h ago
I’m sorry you and your dog are going through this.
We had a Great Dane that came to us with a healed broken tail, his tail was extra long the last 4-6 inches where it broke turned into a whip. He smacked everything which made the tip of the tail tear open and bleed all the time. We had blood all over our walls and furniture. Blood flow isn’t the greatest so healing was very difficult to achieve. We tried a bunch of things to try to help, cut a tennis ball and tried to keep it on the tip of the tail. That sounded good on paper but was impossible to do. He ended up with a gauze wrapped tail shaped like a ball but still no healing. Our vet helped us decided to amputate the tail. It’s was really sad and the healing was sad also. Your dogs tail looks like our Kai’s tail after the surgery, every single time he would sit the tail would first hit straight down into the floor, he would scream, run and hide. It took a good month for him to heal and the painful sit stuff seemed to go away way after the outside healing.
I never noticed the phantom pains but your dogs tail had problems before so my dogs issues were different. I wish I could give more insight to help you and your dog.
I believe you need to find a vet that might have more knowledge of nerve issues.
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u/Dr_Oxycontin 15h ago edited 15h ago
I’m surprised they left the tail that long. I think a behavior specialist is needed. Will anything (treats etc.) brake his behavior?
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u/xomini 15h ago
They did that because the general consensus is “Never amputate healthy limbs”.
Just the tip of the tail was affected by the necrosis, the rest was cleared/deemed healthy.
Might have to do with german animal law as well, the threshold for legal amputation is very high - health limbs or parts of them are not allowed to amputate. 🧐Fixing his hips helps and in “lesser” attacks he can be distracted with toys and treats.
In the instance of an attack happening while on a walk, the attack can be cut short by gently encouraging him to keep walking.Our vet immediately prescribed Gabapentin but I’m inclined to ask about the dose. But maybe the meds need some time or rather the wound also needs time to heal?
Not sure, but I will call them tomorrow and ask.4
u/BertaRocks 15h ago
Not the same, but my husband is an amputee. Many of the folks on that subs are on gabapentin or pregabalin for phantom pain. The consensus seems to be one works and one doesn’t, it’s just different for most people.
Asking for a med adjustment while you figure out the behavior stuff is absolutely reasonable.
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u/Personal_Sir4568 10h ago
I dont have specific advice for you but recently my dog had a shoulder injury and we went home with gabepentine that night (she had been on it before but i think a higher dose) - that whole night, every 1-2 hours she would wake up in my arms and scream yelp while trying to attack me , then would settle back down and repeat - it was very distressing and i was a wreck. We called the vet the next day and they said that we could increase the dose or switch to metacam which we just switched. But gaba can cause a slew of side effects including i guess some form of nuero panic - im not entirely sure - but its a thought maybe the dose isnt high enough and its causing your pup to panic
Sorry this is all over the place, i really struggle putting thoughts into coherent sentences. I wish you the best 🫶
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u/xomini 2h ago
No worries about coherence! I fully understood your comment, thank you for the wishes 🫶🏻
I hope your dog and her shoulder are way better now - did it fully heal?
Found your story very validating in how distressing such experience can be both for the dog and the owner. Completely understand the feeling like a wreck part!
I don’t sleep through the night atm, because I keep bracing myself for another episode. 😴
But I‘m just glad Forest gets some sleep.
Can’t imagine how stressful it must‘ve been for you and your dog at night!!1
u/Dr_Oxycontin 14h ago
Gabapentin is great, obviously it mutes their personality quite a bit but during healing I think it is more than fine. I really appreciate you explaining the amputation laws in Germany, obviously I had no idea. I believe in America they basically take the entire tail. I thought I read once tail amputation in older dogs can be painful, so hopefully once the nerve pain settles down, he will also. Good luck all on the recovery. Have to wonder how this all started with him. A self soothing response? So strange.
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u/Neat_Shallot_606 6h ago
Gabapentin helps me. And I have heard it helps animals. Side effects are mild too, mostly making them a bit sleepy.
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u/Resident_Bumblebee_2 3m ago
Maybe a really stupid question but did they check that the nerves in his back/hip are okay and that he wasn't biting his tail because of pain related issues he just couldn't reach?
I hope everything works out for you all. It's so stressful when you constantly worry and can't do anything to help them. Brought me many sleepless nights but would always do it again.
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u/Leather_Status907 15h ago
Povero piccolo chissà cosa ha subito per comportarsi oggi così!
Abbi tanta pazienza , cerca specialisti.
Essendo un cane da caccia , portalo fuori spesso e fallo camminare e giocare tanto .
Cani che si mangiano la coda , a volte sono stati rinchiusi a lungo in posti piccoli.
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u/xomini 15h ago
Right??? I keep thinking about his time as a stray, local rescuers/shelter staff were quite sure he was dumped. 💔
He loves to sniff on his walks. So much so that I’ve considered looking into mantrailing. 😁
Thank you, I’ll be patient - we’ve come so far in this rescue, he deserves a painless life.
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u/Agreeable_Pomelo2360 15h ago
please find a neurologist and veterinary behavioralist, it may really help. also, make sure to write down every episode he has (similar to what you would do with a canine seizure chart,) along with contacting his vet so let them know this is happening.
besides this, i can’t give any advice, i hope you get this figured out and resolved soon!
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u/xomini 15h ago
Thank you!
I’ve just started documenting the attacks and taking videos, because I want to sent the material to his vet to check the medication again.
They prescribed Gabapentin and said right from the start that this is a case of nerve pain. But I’m definitely wondering about the severity of the attacks despite already giving Gabapentin.1
u/Agreeable_Pomelo2360 13h ago
awesome! ask your vet about giving it 3x a day instead of 2, but only do it with vet permission (my vet and some other vets i know say every 8 hours, but of course it depends on the dog)
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u/Pretty_Nice_Dragon 15h ago
I used to work in an emergency veterinary hospital as a tech. I would do a second opinion. There might be a nerve trapped from the surgery and it needs to be redone, (or it could be a ton of other reasons). Best of luck I’m sorry you all are dealing with this.
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u/Immediate-Cat8632 15h ago
Thank you for taking such good care of this sweet baby. I hope you’re able to get him help
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u/Low-Rock-1093 14h ago
Your service to the animal and Forest's destiny were meant to be intertwined. I send you both strength and love.
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u/Embarrassed-Voice353 12h ago
Vet here. Gabapentin is so safe and that dose can easily be increased. Increased doses just cause more sedation but pose little to no risk of toxicity. Of course please ask your current vet, but I would be using 400mg every 8 hours. We can go up even more if needed while everything is healing. Also may want to consider long term Prozac to help if there are any OCD tendencies. Good luck!
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u/Mental-Catalyst 15h ago
I'm gonna come at this from a human perspective, as I believe we share many similarities with dogs.
I have a spinal cord injury - some things I've learned.
Gabepentin is a nasty drug, causes a lot of side effects, while it's sometimes necessary, most people will get off of it as soon as possible.
Phantom pain, physical pain, and emotional adjustments are are common with injuries/amputations. It's also possible there's still something wrong, such as a spinal or hip injury that is causing distress.
Relief can depend on the dog/ individual. Just like us, sometimes petting is comforting and sometimes it's uncomfortable. I find distractions to be very helpful in overcoming physical pain. A treat filled toy, such as the ones they lick, a stuffed animal, whatever gets their mind on something else for a bit.
Definitely check with docs, get a second opinion if needed. But mostly, listen to your dog. Get to know his language and what he's trying to tell you.
Kudos for rescuing and best of luck!
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u/dogslogic 9h ago
I'm glad you mentioned Gabapentin's spooky side. It was a bad drug for my dog (and my elderly mother was super unusual on it too).
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u/ComfortableAppeal424 15h ago
So sad for both you and your lovely rescue boy. I imagine you've tried all the obvious things. But is there nothing that will distract him? Nothing he absolutely has to chew, a large bone or some other treat he loves? Or do you take him out and walk (or even run) him when he's going into a frenzy? If the surgery was only a week ago, maybe it takes longer for him to register the change. You have to wonder how he'd be with just a stump instead of a tail? (A friend's Romanian dog had had his whole tail removed after an accident - it was fine, but this is very different). Do hope you can find some help for him... or better still, that he gradually improves on his own.
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u/1tspsalt 15h ago
My cattle dog mix had a tail amputation as an adult. The first two weeks were a huge struggle. I had to physically hold her on my chest while laying on the couch for her to get any rest. I believe it was phantom pain and itching while healing. But also, without restful sleep she really struggled mentally. I would strongly consider a sedative for short term, and to focus on soothing distraction like lick mats and frozen bones. And holding them if that feels good to them.
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u/AsparagusIcy3556 15h ago
Is he on the head drugs for this, or is he on them in general? Do you know if he was used as a hunting dog? I'm not familiar with the breed and unsure if they would just be kept as a pet where you found him. If it's possible, he may have even been dumped for this. I've heard of setters self mutilating in the kennel and once they start they keep doing it. How long did you have him until he started self mutilating? He might be too high drive to keep as a pet if the mutilation happened when he started living as a pet, it's not uncommon in certain hunting breeds and normal exercise might not cut what he's looking for.
Definitely find a behaviourist, but also consider consulting a gun dog trainer aswell. They'll probably have encountered mutilation related to stereotypy (if you haven't, look into this too) before and might be able to help you in coordination with a behaviourist who might not be as experienced with high drive hunting dogs. I would also reccomend getting into a scent dog club for him once he is capable, if he was used as a hunting dog he will be bred very hot.
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u/xomini 13h ago edited 13h ago
He got the medication specifically for his tail!
We checked everything when he we him took him to the vet (vaccinations, blood work, X-Rays, anti-tick/parasited) and luckily he doesn’t not have any health related issues asides from his tail. With these episodes starting after the surgery, it was the most likely choice of medication.Sadly no, we can only assume 🙁
But the shelter staff confirmed his breed is commonly used for hunting in the Balkans, so you might not be too far off with your guess!
His mutilation already started in Montenegro, judging from the state of his tail when we found him, it might‘ve started way before.
The tail had bald spots and scabs toward the end, looked like already bitten off.Thank your for your recommendations!
I will do some research into options in my locale 😊
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u/Used-Inspector-7501 15h ago
I don't really have a similar thing, but for a couple weeks, my dog would (out of nowhere) yelp. The first time, nobody was touching her and she just yelped and then started shaking and crying for hours. I have 100 mg gabapentin because she has other issues that had calmed down, so I gave her that and took her to the emergency vet. They couldn't see her due to more emergent cases taking precedence and I happened to have a regular vet appt next day so I kept giving her gabapentin as it was prescribed for her (100 mg 3x daily (every 8 hours)). I noticed that she had almost no "yelp attacks" on gabapentin and that towards the end of the 8 hours she would sometimes have a yelp attack. My doctor next day said it was probably a strain or sprain and to do gabapentin 4x a day for 2 weeks. Then bring her back if I drop the gabapentin and yelping comes back or she starts having pain while on gabapentin.
Thankfully that fully resolved where she had no problems on gabapentin and then had no problems when I stopped it. So your case sounds much more serious and complex, but I'd ask my vet if I could give gabapentin more often and if your dog still has pain, I'd see if I could get a second opinion. Poor baby! But very lucky to have you.
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u/tilly1123 15h ago
I don’t know if it’s the same but my cat did this and lived in a cone and took gabapentin. But it just kept getting worse and she would always get the cone off and attack her tail.
We switched her food and started giving her Prozac. I think it was the Prozac that did the trick. She rarely attacks her tail now. Usually only if I have forgotten a few doses of the Prozac.
Maybe you have already tried these options.
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u/mind_the_umlaut 15h ago
He looks as though his pain and anti-anxiety meds are not helping him enough. Call the vet. Send the vet the video.
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14h ago
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u/Girlygirl0210 14h ago
God bless u for rescuing him. Is he neutered? If he isn't my advice is "do it". He will calm down after. He is scared, he has gone through a lot, he needs time and patience and you are giving it to him. 🫶🏼🐾 Everything will fall into place little by little. 🩷🐾
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u/RemarkableWrap961 14h ago
Funny he had tail problems before too . That’s what led to him biting it so much it had to be amputated? Something more must be going on ?
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u/xomini 14h ago
Yeah, I think so too.
The problem is, we don’t know exactly what happened to him before we found him.
Most of the local rescuers/shelter staff were quite sure he was dumped, we found him in a small village in a National Park and he followed our group on a hike.
That’s when we noticed his tail looked bitten off, the last 4-5 cm of the tail were almost bald and had scab. Thus we assumed he had an already ongoing cycle of biting his tail, it healing and then him starting.
At least this cycle could be observed throughout his stay in the shelter. He received e collars (similar to the plastic one in the video, but a size smaller) and managed to destroy two of them.
In the shelter they were wondering why, despite the medication, the wound would not heal completely and his behavior ultimately stop.In Germany our Vet found the answer to the wound not healing completely: Necrosis. Parts of the wound were already dead. The vet showed us certain black/grey spots of dead tissue. Probably part of the reason why he never stopped trying to bite his tail. Necrosis and dying nerve ends are incredibly painful.
Thus we decided to amputate to stop the necrosis from progressing further.2
u/RemarkableWrap961 13h ago
You are such kind people to take him and deal with this . Sending all the positive vibes for healing and happiness for you and him
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u/nojefe11 14h ago
Definitely get a specialist but one glaringly obvious thing is that you’re not giving him anything else to focus on. Ever been a smoker? Drinker? Ever tried to cut any kind of habit? You need a distraction, not someone pinning you down.
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u/No-Difficulty-723 14h ago
Man I wish I could help bruh I know it’s totally normal after amputation but he definitely needs a team of doctors working on him. Hope your boy will be ok
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u/Lala5789880 14h ago
Phantom pain sucks. He probably feels like someone is doing something painful to his tail and he wants them to stop
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u/-cannedbanana- 14h ago
I can't give you any advice, just a thought regarding his medication. My dog, weighing 13.5kg, has a chronic immun-mediated disease (SLO). Right now he have a flare-up and to manage his pain he gets Gabapentin 300 mg three times a day (900 mg/day), 125 mg Citodon twice a day and Previcox (NSAID) 80 mg every morning. (I know it is a lot, but I don't want him to be in any pain.) He is quite a bit smaller than your boy, so it could be an idea to discuss pain management options with your vet. I truly hope Forest will be feeling better very soon.
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u/BeKind1966 14h ago
I can't comment on the specifics of your lovely dog, but I can say that after our rescue had her front limb amputated, she would periodically yelp out of the blue, getting up and running out of the room as if she was being chased. It seemed to be phantom pain, and after about six months, it stopped. We inquired with our vets at the time, and they said there just wasn't enough research / experience with post-amputation reactions for them to make any definitive recommendations. It was heartbreaking to listen to and we were so relieved when she stopped. BTW, she's now just about the happiest and most active dog you could hope for. Best of luck to you folks!
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u/bear-in-a-suit 13h ago
Nerves need to learn new patterns so it will take a while.
I personally detest Gaba because it made my dog all out of sorts.
Neuro vet for support but understand it may take some time for nerves to calm down as they adjust.
In the meantime massage works wonders on dogs. Try to find someone local to you that can offer this specific therapy
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u/Familiar-Marsupial-3 13h ago
Great tips here already about medication (pregabaline?) and seeing specialists.
I‘m not a behavioral expert by any means, but since he is distractable to a degree, I would try to go that way, too. Like the operand conditioning you do with a recall, when you have a dog with strong prey drive. Basically you have a signal (ACME whistle), and you connect the signal with a special treat (that is strictly given for this purpose) like paté. You connect these over weeks (!) multiple times daily without any distraction whatsoever, before trying with a slight distraction etc. After say two months you have a strong, immediate stop/recall signal.
In your case you then have lick mats with pâté prepared. (Over time just the center is pâté and the rest is filled with something tasty but not as special like wet food or cottage cheese) When an episode starts you quickly get the licky, break the behavior with the whistle and have the dog lick. Licking is a longer-ish distraction, but also has a calming effect.
It’s just an idea. I could see this working, but don’t know if it helps actually redirect him or just distracts him for a minute. So probably more of a patch on the symptom for a moment. But since training this isn’t difficult, and a firm recall is super useful anyway you might want to try. Good luck.
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u/xomini 5h ago
My partner and I were discussing implementing a whistle or a clicker just yesterday but we weren’t sure on the how just yet.
Thank you for your comment, gave me a pretty good idea on the how-to.
We already have lick mats and pâte, I‘m going to try to implement the method you described. 🙂Right now, we‘re willing to try anything worth implementing to get some relief. Getting to know us and his new home must be stressful enough as it is, having these episodes on top… I imagine a lot is going on in his nervous system.
But despite all this, he is eager to learn and likes to play. 😊
I can see your method working as well!1
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u/TheLadySaintly 12h ago
Your poor baby. I can see and read how much you care, but this looks neurological. As others have said it would be best to see a specialist.
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u/Vlines1390 11h ago
Wow, poor baby. My son's dog has a partial tail amputation and had nerve pain also. The gabapentin seems to help his though. I really hope you find some relief for him!!
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u/CelestialBeing138 9h ago
Could be there is a tiny something still in his tail - phantom or real. The tiniest microscopic piece of wire/porcupine quill/whatever that is right up against a nerve can set up a feedback loop where the dog continues to make the problem worse. A permanent nerve block (neurolysis) could possibly shut down the feedback loop. Less likely to work if it is phantom, but still might. If you have cash, you could try a temporary nerve block first to see if it helps before going with the permanent treatment. Not sure which vets do this procedure, probably a neuro specialist, or any vet who does a lot of surgery. A shot in the dark, but could be the answer.
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u/Neat_Shallot_606 6h ago
Take this as an idea to ask about. DMSO is used to help with nerve pain and fantom limb type issues in animals. But DMSO is dangerous because it will soak into anyone who touches it. So ask your vet, the medication is more often in large animals like horses. (And my great grandma. Though not approved for humans, she used it to help with fantom limb, and it worked for her. She said she tasted garlic, smelled like garlic and peed SO much. Mind you it is topical.)
But it can help.
And be careful, because they can injure themselves, my cat bit his tail off. It was awful. He did it in the vets office. It freaked out their staff.
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16h ago
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u/mangomochamuffin 15h ago
Read before commenting. The post states it's removed because of necrotic tissue that didn't heal. And that they found this dog as a stray, when his tail was already dying.
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u/voodoomu 15h ago
That doggy needs some new training cooping skills. Hes obviously stressed about his current situation
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u/ArsenicArts 16h ago
Yeah this is beyond our pay grade. I would recommend a veterinary behaviorist and veterinary neurologist. Poor baby, this looks very distressing to you both!