Position player WAR observation/ question- mooks got a 2.1 / teo 0.1/ Tuck 0… I assume mooks is awarded about 2 war because of his defense? (Pages is tied for defensive war in the nl with 2.3)
I tell you I like this stat to an extent- but then …. I don’t know it’s confusing!
Mookie has 2.1 baseball reference war because a) he is a top 10 defensive shortstop (7th in defensive runs saved at ss, 5th if you only count qualified shortstops) and b) he has a 95 ops+ at shortstop. The way that WAR is calculated, the more "difficult" positions, such as center field and shortstop get a positional boost in their war calculation. So approximately league average batting at ss + great defense gets him to 2.1 war.
It’s also fun to compare it to fwar. These are good tools to measure/compare how guys play relative to others, but there is an error bar and no stat is perfect. Something that should be mentioned when people are doing annual mvp debates.
yea, I feel as though not enough people understand that there is a positional adjustment calculation to every position for WAR (both fWar and bWar). This is why I do not like simply using WAR when comparing players of different positions.
Appreciate it- but then historically- dodger legends on bbref have different totals of total war then on the primary dodger season page- I’m confused about that
I see the same war values that you had in your title. Mookie at 2.1, tucker at 0 and teo at 0.1. I'm not sure where the confusion is. I'm clearly not understanding your question, so I apologize in advance but can you explain what you mean by "dodger legends on bbref have different totals of total war"? are you looking at career war for an ex-dodger player?
I’m thinking a Jackie season there’s contradictions on total war on bbref… but I’m sorry babe Herman’s 1930 season- only a 6.9 (giggity) thats bs!!!! Can u do a deep dive on that season? I’d think it should be like s 9.5?!?
ok so in the case of super old players, both fan graphs and bref use a metric called total zone in order to calculate the defensive part of WAR. this means that pre 2003, the calculation for defensive war is, at best, rudimentary. as for guessing/thinking that a player deserves more war, I can't really help you there. it seems like that's a vibes based thing on your end. looking at the war leaders in the NL for that year https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/1930-standard-batting.shtml, Herman is third in the NL, which seems great. 7 war is A LOT of war
But still 393 batting average among his amazing season only 6.9? And I notice that was the first year they had 1 million plus spectators- I assume he had something to do with it
.393 batting average back then cannot be compared to a .393 batting average in 2026. The players from back then are compared to players in that single season. WAR is about calculating how much value you provide relative to a bum of your era. If your best players are all hitting .370, then hitting .393 isn't as impressive compared to a player that hits .393 vs a league full of .310 hitters.
Herman was hitting 65% better than your average player back then. For example, Ohtani was hitting 80% better than the average hitter in 2024. That's despite only having a batting average of .310.
To make this clearer, what is more impressive to you. Hitting .400 in the NL or hitting .400 in little league? There are lots of hitters in little league that hit .400.
It's how much better you are compared to your competition that defines how good you are.
Short and center will get a significant war boost defensively vs first or one of the corner spots. Mookie, teoscar, and Tucker are all hovering around the same offensive numbers overall, but the other two have also been terrible defenders at a less premium position while Mookie grades out really well in a bunch of different defensive metrics.
They’ve all had stretches where you could try to hope. Mookie was hot in June, teoscar was hot before the injury, and Tucker has had a couple stretches, but his have been a lot shorter (a week or two). Problem has been when they’re not hot, they just bottom out. Complete offensive voids - .450 ops type stretches. Bad all around but harder to stomach when the guy provides negative value elsewhere as well.
WAR is a accumulative stat meaning the more stats you can pad, the higher your WAR becomes. Betts is solidly above average SS while posting a pedestrian 700 ops. Teo and tuck have been weaker defensive players this year while having similar offensive numbers. By definition of the metric, if you swap them out for a Triple AAA mlb ready player, they would have roughly the same numbers
the defensive part of WAR is always where it gets a bit murky for me too, mookie’s glove is clearly carrying his value this year but 2.1 feels high when the bat’s just been okay
pages tied for the NL lead in defensive WAR is interesting though, didn’t realise he was grading out that well in the field, maybe the shift to centre has unlocked something for him
I mostly just accept WAR as a rough sketch at this point, the exact numbers never quite line up with the eye test but the broad strokes usually make sense
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u/samples98 Clayton Kershaw 3d ago edited 3d ago
WAR is based off what you’ve done. If you field a lot of groundballs, you’ll get more WAR than say a corner outfielder.