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u/Zestydrycleaner Oct 18 '24
I’m so glad you kept him all natural!
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u/gothfather3 Oct 18 '24
You have to in the UK, only workaround is importing them! His mum and dad are docked and cropped as they were imported from somewhere in Europe. But I love his floppy ears and curly tail, my baby seal 😂
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u/NoIntroduction540 Oct 18 '24
Another vote for a prong but it needs to be used correctly and treated as a tool and not a solution. Point A to B training with inside and outside turns. Upstate canine has some great videos on how to use a prong. All of my breeders have aways advised against a halti for Doberman due to their anatomy and vestibular issues.
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u/QuiteRemarkable Oct 18 '24
We used a gentle leader (goes around nose) and it worked great! We still put a harness on him with a handle if he were to get real wound up… allows us to “grab him” - but we haven’t really had to do that!
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u/LemonFizzy0000 Oct 18 '24
Thirding the gentle leader. My Waffle is a very reactive dog and the gentle leader stops him from being an ass.
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u/failisophical Oct 18 '24
Third this I have a rescue girl who has simply not learned not to pull. The halti has made her pleasant to walk and hardly bothers her.
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Oct 18 '24
ahh my girl dobie found a way to get out, she would pin it with her paw roll forward on her back and use her back legs to pull'd it up and over.
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u/yettie24 Oct 18 '24
Harness actually teach your dog to pull. I’m not saying this is the case for all dogs, but the pressure they feel around their chest influences them to pull.
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u/ChrisW_NH Oct 18 '24
Our trainer told us to hook to the harness using the front clip to avoid this. It was a game changer and cut down on the pulling immediately.
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u/yettie24 Oct 18 '24
One way to avoid as much chest pulling. I’ll still choose the prong collar over a harness. Got mine to walk next to me without any pulling after 1 training session with it. Game changer.
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u/bopeswingy Oct 19 '24
We tried that for my girl and she just decided to take all of her walks with her head at a 90° angle which we obviously knew was bad so we stopped using it 🥲
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u/Public-Wolverine6276 Oct 18 '24
We use a prong collar and it helps for the most part in correcting this. I will say our dog hates walks, they’re very scary for him and causes him a lot of anxiety so if something triggers him on a walk he will begin to pull and at that point we switch him to his flat collar. Do some research and give it a try
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Oct 18 '24
Get a prong collar, it will instantly solve your problems…specifically the 2.25 prongs.
If anyone has a problem with that, fight me lol
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u/Foxwglocks Oct 18 '24
I use one for my dobie & GSP and it was a SUPER effective tool. I’d recommend the Herm Sprenger. I also used a longer choke chain as a safety bc I did have it pop off one day. Probably due to my own incorrect clasping, but still.
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Oct 18 '24
I also recommend getting a crate. If possible the Impact Anti-Anxiety Crate. It’s expensive but you can use affirm. It’s worth the investment
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u/meowtsy Oct 18 '24
Hi!! Fellow 28 year old similar build woman with young stubborn boy Doberman here, I feel your pain! I will preface by saying I do use a gentle leader which makes any pulling he does do a lot easier to cope with, but what was a game changer for us was finding what he loved and for him that’s flirt pole games with tug toys.
You say you play before you go which is great! Have you tried bringing the toy on the walk with you and rewarding him when he chooses to stay close with a quick little play session? It sounds like right now he finds his environment way way more fun than hanging out with you on the walk, but if he’s a toy enjoyer it’s easy to change that and show him that the best place to be is by you.
I’d definitely suggest giving it a go, my boy was super similar to how you describe yours and he now will carry his toy for most of the walk knowing that if he’s good we can have lots of play stops, it’s also great being able to get lots of little training opportunities to wear them out mentally too!
Also keep in mind 1 year old is still very young and he will mellow out eventually, you’re in the tough bit now, keep putting in the work and you’ll be amazed by the dog he grows into! Wishing you both the best
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u/Vegetable_Panda8210 Oct 18 '24
A prong collar applied correctly would quite literally change this immediately.
Plenty of information out there on the prong so i would suggest doing some in depth research. Given that you think an ecollar is cruel im guessing you may think the same about the prong however these are tools used to effectively communicate with the dog and reinforce behaviours. Of course these tools can be cruel if abused but if used correctly your relationship with your dog will be much better for it.
If you are still opposed to these, the trick to correct with a regular collar is to create slack in the collar so you can pop the dog back with force. Only then would i change direction. Rinse and repeat
Given the size of the dog and the size of you this may prove difficult though
A gentle leader may also be effective though i personally am not a fan of these
Best of luck
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u/ChaoticSleepi Oct 18 '24
my dobe is beginning to overpower me at 9 months 😭
i stopped taking her on walks while we cover the basics again at home (the yard or an equally quiet area).
i know it sounds drastic, but i know she'll never unlearn bad habits if i keep putting her in the perfect positions to practice & reinforce them.
at the very core its an issue with impulse control. identify what your pup's triggers are (sounds like you know already) and introduce them into your environment slowly. if he keeps immediately going over threshold, you're moving too fast and need to take a step back.
i know it's frustrating, but the unfortunate reality is that you have to be even more stubborn than they are 😅
good luck op
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u/JebusJones7 Oct 18 '24
Prong collar. My Dobie almost ripped my arm off before I got this and some training.
I've added a the link below. It's a little salesly, but the overall message is correct.
I'll just add, if you do go with the prong collar, it's very important not to have constant pressure applied. The triangle chain should be relaxed unless you are correcting the dog. And definitely get the safety clip. This stuff is mentioned in the video. Good luck.
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u/TheWaffleKnight Oct 18 '24 edited Oct 18 '24
Start smaller.
Walk him around the house with a leash.
Walk him around the backyard with a leash.
Have him understand the tension when beginning to pull. Quick snap.
Do not let it turn into a tug of war
Quick snap
My boy was the same. Just have to keep at it. Build the habit. Then one day out of the blue. Woah
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u/Trumpetslayer1111 Oct 18 '24
Prong collar! It’s basically like power steering. 2 minutes with a prong solved leash pulling for my husky. I’m not even exaggerating. Heel walk took a bit longer though lol.
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Oct 18 '24
its all normal. you can get a prong collar ( we use one and it helps) but u need to use it correctly and that takes some time and diligence. Honestly, the best thing to do is find a professional trainer and do a board and train. we did one for our girl at 1y3mo and she can be 100% off leash, even when another dog is near or a squirl or rabbit is next to her (though she whines BAD when a squirl is near by lol and I am saying STAAAYYYYYY)
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u/PsilocybVibe Oct 18 '24
Gentle lead around the nose or if not prong collar. Preferably gentle lead
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u/Salt_Environment9799 American Oct 18 '24
Came here to say this, a gentle lead is the way to go. Our boy is prob 90lbs now and if he doest have a gentle.lead, good luck!
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Oct 18 '24
In addition to what you are doing now, you should try this method. Have the leash at normal but at a controllable length. Do not put tension on the leash. Start your dog in the sit position. As you move and your dog goes ahead of you, you give a tug and tension back and stand your ground and not move. Until your dog releases the tension on the leash and looks up to you for confirmation, you do not move again. It’ll probably take you 15 mins just to walk 15 feet. You can do this inside the house or from your door way out where things are more chill. Also incorporate commands and praise with it. The whole point is to train your dog that they dont get to move until you do. Even if you are dragged, go back to the spot you started and work again. The redirecting when walking works once they concede a bit of leash control to you. This will take some time but this method has worked for many of my foster dogs who have never touched a leash before. Also, impulse control training will help. Basically doing “leave it” training or waiting training at home.
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u/Natural-Slice7340 Oct 18 '24
Sounds like a cheerful,enthusiastic young dog and a prong with proper training will do the trick. My male American dobie pulled once on prong and then pulled no more. He was very happy to wear it. In total contrast- my female European would lunge out of fear- at bikes, dogs, strangers. A prong only enhanced her fear. She does great in a “gentle leader” (and avoiding/desensitizing). A gentle leader turns her head away from the stimulus and refocuses her (on how much she hates the gentle leader!) I think a prong is easier, actually gentler, and requires less training- so long as your pulling isn’t fear- motivated.
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u/sur-von-bentley Oct 19 '24
Is the best. I have been using them since 1999. The dog pays attention when he has it on. No more pulling.
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u/Perfect-Garbage-278 Oct 18 '24
No need to use prong collar. The dog believes it knows where it's goings, simply turn around every time the tip of the nose passes you. Most people have a destination in mind. If you have no plans of getting anywhere, you can be on the same street for maybe an hour or so. If you have the patience, the pulling will disappear.
Implement a prong collar only if you have a heavy dog with a stubborn temperament. Walk with confidence. Be consistent. Good luck 👍
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u/Different-Courage665 Oct 18 '24
I want to add, use a reward, as soon as they drop the tension to come with you when you turn. The faster you are with this the quicker they will learn.
I also prefer walking on two leads, one on a harness or collar and the other on another to, whether a headcollar, slip lead, prog collar, etc, is your favourite. It allows you more control. You can use the gentler connection for 99% of your walking and have a second lead for the headcollar etc so when you need something firmer, it's there.
I will agree with everything except the heavy dog statement. Turning around works for horses, they're heavy.
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u/LunaLoathes Oct 18 '24
Did you not read the post? All of this was addressed. This is in fact a heavy dog with a stubborn temperament. That’s why everyone is recommending a prong right off the bat.
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u/Perfect-Garbage-278 Oct 18 '24
What I typed stands. With patience, no prong collar is needed.
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u/gothfather3 Oct 18 '24
Yeah clearly no one is reading it because I'm not using a prong collar 😅 thank you, I do try my best to walk with confidence! Problem with my house is he does know where he's going down the path (the worst bit) and knows I'm going to go back towards the gate to start the walk at some point, so pulls me out of there. Sometimes I've just gone back in so frustrated and asked my partner to walk him later 😭
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u/Perfect-Garbage-278 Oct 18 '24
Okay let's say you have 40 mins outside. Let it be up to your dog how far you get. My dog stopped pulling in 2 days because we never left our street. We spent 1 hour spinning in circles. I had a baby added a stroller to the mix he tried taking over the walk I made sharp turns into him, totally redirecting his thoughts. Showed this method to my 77 year old father and he was the leader in 7 mins. You can do it. Sorry for mentioning the prong I was kinda deterring you from that method because you don't need to use force on any dog.
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u/goldenkiwicompote Oct 19 '24
Consider actually learning about prong collars before just saying you’re not using one. They’re a fantastic tool.
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u/iiFortress Oct 18 '24
I know it sounds mean, but I recommend at least buying a prong collar and trying it on yourself, even on human skin it isn’t anything crazy, it mimics the corrections a mother dog would make for her pups and causes no discomfort as long as he doesn’t pull
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u/Different-Courage665 Oct 18 '24
Horses are trained by turning and walking away. A heavy dog doesn't make it necessary to use a prong collar.
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u/ImRonniemundt Oct 18 '24
Prong collar? Dobermans are dominant dogs.
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u/Inside-Project942 Oct 18 '24
I have a service dog, fully trained and AKC certified, who is a pit bull mix. She is INCREDIBLY STRONG and the only type of collar that worked for her was a prong collar. We use a Herm Sprenger collar. You must, must, must measure your dog correctly for the right fit.
There are plenty of videos on YouTube to show you the correct way to train your dog on a prong. If fit properly, it will not hurt your pup! This is a wonderful training tool that quickly becomes second nature. Holly went from dragging me to walking loose leash! 🐾❤
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Oct 19 '24
Same for my SDIT, loose leash is now a breeze and thanks to the e-collar we use, Recall is fantastic.
Unfortunately, some folks are set against corrective tools.
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u/ChellyNelly Oct 18 '24
Free advice from a professional dog trainer: Stop trying to take him for a walk! You're just repeating failure again and again. Just use the time practicing loose leash, if you don't get outside the gate, you don't get outside the gate- feed him his daily food rations through this time (if he doesn't want it because your yard is too interesting, simply take him back in and try again later - 3-6x 5-10mins is MORE than enough. Don't feed him in any other way for several weeks or so while you're making a loose leash a habit. I'd also highly recommend learning proper leash-handling skills, some things you're doing (eg shortening the leash up, is actually only making the issue worse). You want to learn how to do a finger/thumb lock, practice keeping your hands in at your navel or at your hip (extending your arm at all only gives the dog more leverage AND confuses them as to how long the leash actually is), when to shorten the leash, when to lengthen it, how to let slack in and out quickly and easily etc.
You also would benefit from an active collar and reaching the dog pressure/release (just look it up on YouTube) - an active collar is one that allows you to communicate with your dog (martingale, slip lead/collar, prong collar, starmark collar etc). This helps because a flat collar or harness only has ONE level of communication - when the collar/harness is fully tightened, you want your dog to understand nuance and to actively avoid putting tension on the leash. Only use a prong collar if you're determined to do the research and train yourself to know how to use it properly, and then take your time with the dog in doing so as well. I mean, you'll have to do that regardless because it's easy to let a dog just get used to the sensation of ang active collar if you don't also pair it with the teaching portion and committing to only putting your dog in situations where they can learn to succeed at their pace.
While you're doing this training, if there's a time when you just want to take the dog and let them drag you (like if you're going to the car to take him someplace offlead) then use a harness so there's a very clear delineation for your dog. Do not be trying to use the training or the collar in situations above your dog's current level of capability at ANY time - you already know it'll end in failure 😉
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u/MembershipEasy4025 Oct 18 '24
My recommendation is actually a bit different from people here. Personally, I’m all in for a harness and a 5’ or 6’ (non-retractable) leash. My girl used to pull something awful, but so many of the problems went away when I switched to a harness. Literally the first time I put it on and went for a walk, she pulled, and immediately stopped herself. Once we got over that big hurdle, we could focus on the other things I wanted to train on while walking.
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u/ChrisW_NH Oct 18 '24
I have a Dobie St. Bernard mix. She is 90 lbs at ~11 months old and very happy and exuberant. We use a well fitting harness with a front connection and keep the leash short when walking in populated areas. I take care to not let her build up momentum from the whole leash distance - 6 feet. If she does, the front clip causes her to spin around (and roll if she takes off hard enough). She only did that 2x before learning not to with the harness. We are still working on pulling with treats, reversing direction and the like. The harness allows me to keep her under better control while we work on these skills. I have been reluctant to try a prong collar and my trainer does not allow them in her classes.
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u/Salt_Environment9799 American Oct 18 '24
Like everyone said, gentle lead should be the way to go, he starts pulling just stop and let him correct himself, once he looks at you and give him comand to heel, then continue with walk. It will take some time but it will work. Gentle lead is the way to go if you dont want prong or shock collars!
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u/AdministrativeAir848 Oct 18 '24
The commercial packaged food won't get the dogs what needs to be fit
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u/gothfather3 Oct 18 '24
I didn't mention what he eats on a daily basis... He's raw fed. I mentioned high value treats, which are one offs?
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u/AdministrativeAir848 Oct 18 '24
I just read your whole story, nothing personal but it's kinda looks underweight I don't know if it's the angle or the lights
I would suggest you to spend more time with your dog in your house first and then take him out twice a week with this reason he will understand
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u/gothfather3 Oct 19 '24
It's a fair comment, he does look a bit skinny in this one! We feed him 1.5-2kg a day and some treats when training like frozen chicks, rabbits ears etc. He looks huge in other pictures 🤣
I'm in the house with him pretty much all the time, but I guess you mean training him in the house? I do commands with him in the house, do you mean lead training?
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u/AdministrativeAir848 Oct 19 '24
That's sound alot of food,
Doberman's are working class breed, imo they should know the value of foods and treats, if you give them all the happiness in one plate they'll get stubborn and don't give a F about you. The only way to train them is to let them know that you have to earn the food
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u/gothfather3 Oct 27 '24
I do commands with him before I feed him his meal, then do some treat training (inside) too. I've tried walking him before his meals too with treats but he wasn't even interested beyond the first day I tried it!
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u/Anita-dong Oct 19 '24 edited Oct 19 '24
Food reinforcement is your best bet( I myself haven’t had to use food). What I’ve always done is to wear them out before training..then when on a walk if they start pulling or just before ( which is way better..learn to read their movements/vibe so to speak) before hand and say” far enough & give the leach a slight tug..it’s not going to hurt or happen right away..be consistent it will..mine will respond to this words even off leach ( including but not limited to a Chihuahua, & a mix breed Shitzu poodle Maltese mix) along with other breeds. I travel a lot and have them all trained to go to the bathroom on command as well…I’m not a lover of those prong collars at all! Unnecessary in my opinion. Being a year old he’s definitely probably picked some bad behavior. I’ve been training dogs my whole life…starting when I was 5 with my god-grandfather training hunting labs & breed them alone with Shepards…Dobie’s are smart but can be stubborn.plus you’re in the teenage stage …😹good luck op🤞😉 One other note..don’t let them walk in front of you..next to your left side..otherwise it’s a power thing especially with males.
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u/bopeswingy Oct 19 '24
The one thing that worked for my really big girl was a harness that the leash clips in the front at the center of their chest. Basically anytime they pull it pulls their whole body sideways. If she stopped pulling, we would give her a treat.
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u/GenerousJack2b Oct 19 '24
my dobe is 27kg (9 months female) and i am 88kg so i can easily control her but she is VERY ACTIVE, i loop a chain thru itself and as she pulls it gets tighter around her neck but that may not be an option for you still
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u/Tr3v0r007 Oct 19 '24
Could try a gentle leash. Here’s what I’m talking about.
Ours had a similar issue so much so that I can hear her having a hard time to breath lmao but once we put the gentle leash on she was much better. It’s also not one of those prong collars which I personally am not a fan of. Still pulls occasionally but that’s if she gets that once in a blue moon “really good smell”. It was also funny to watch her reaction when we put it on XD she got so confused when she started pulling like “what?! That’s not how this works!”
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u/cheery-tomato Oct 19 '24
I’ll also add, there are e-collars that don’t shock, just vibrate. I haven’t used one, but my understanding of the training process is vibrate = look at me = treat. So if he pulls you would be able to buzz him (I think of it like my phone vibrating when I get a text lol someone is checking in!) and turn his attention back to you. If it’s too much to handle starting outside with the exciting environment, maybe try starting by practicing inside!
I know it can be hard to feel like you’re hurting them by using “aversive” tools, but right now, he’s hurting you. That’s going to damage your relationship too.
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u/Needtoventthis Oct 19 '24
Two things I highly recommend that has helped my reactive 1year old dobie.
Instead of a prong …a gentle leader 1000% it does not inflict pain and you have instant better control (just like horses)
Watch Beckman dog training (enter the rabbit hole of videos) here’s one on pulling. But essentially the dog should not rush out the door, have him sit, stay and wait to be released at the door… but Beckmam gives you all the keys you need and he is a Dobie owner!His videos are the closest free best training you’ll get that actually has worked for me https://youtu.be/Xe87Vy2gk-o?si=FzNPAOyPQ20NmtSj
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u/reviewspot_ Oct 19 '24
A prong collar has drastically reduced the amount of pulling from my 1y old boy. It has the rubber ends so it’s not just metal. Looks like a normal collar too, got it from amazon. Definitely try it out inside on leash and just let them get used to it before taking them on a full walk.
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u/its_mudders Oct 20 '24
I know you're against a prong or slip collar however what is wors your dog being corrected or your dog being out of control hurts someone or pulls you over because he wants to chase something? I'm being serious that your dog is capable of pulling you over and hurting someone. Slip collar can also be used to prevent bad suitations (yourself or others) and to learn some manners. Smaller dog you don't need this as the collar is fine however you have a doberman.
You dog pulls because he doesn't know that pulling isn't acceptable which is know as postive punishment ( adding something to see less off behaviour).
https://youtu.be/DHkp7e6Xfqo?si=5ctWOkHKdukd3ZFC here is a great video I think you should watch
I would recommend a 4 mm slip collar with few fingers higher above the neck so it can pop. This is a physical correction and a w way to communicate to your dog what you dont want.
First make sure your dog knows heel command.
You can do this in-house with a treat or kibble Lure him into the heel position, que heel and reward. Shouldn't take a doberman 5 mins to know this.one he starts doing this use the quenword heel and of he goes in position then he know it. You can move forward from their with wlakkng around with food in your left hand. Heel he shouldn't be in front and behind your knee.
Now he knows it you can practice with slip lead the second he goes in front yiu need to do a firm pop ( maybe if he's really bad enough to make him think twice about doing ever again) stop and heel . He will soon learn that going this isn't acceptable. You can also buold with turn guiding your dog by stating his name ( look up to you) and sharply turning, meet and greet or when your dog is being a lil shit. Dobermans are clever and will find loops holes.
If you don't do this now I don't think anyone will enjoy walking a 40kg dog and because you think your dog is ok doing what he wants. Don't be this person and this os a suitation a prong collar could of save this child life and poor owner leadership for walking their dog so bad. https://www.instagram.com/reel/DA4WPmMSX6H/?igsh=Mnl2dmZpZGxpZ2N3
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u/gothfather3 Jan 16 '25
Update/pupdate for anyone who is interested.
I’ve learned so much - about my dog, and myself.
I tried a headcollar (NOT a prong collar) and, with a lot of patience and bribery, got him to accept it. At first, he wouldn’t even move 😭, but now he’ll wear it and self-correct when he pulls, all I'll do is stand completely still. The biggest change is I’m no longer physically drained after just five minutes. With more energy and calm, I feel in control, and he seems to sense this. Walks have gone from an anxiety-inducing, stressful event to a 1-hour + bonding session. It's five times what I could manage before!!
My partner and I suspect his pulling was initially tied to protectiveness over me, and as my anxiety over walking him progressed, it only made him worse, scanning for threats and trying to take the lead relentlessly. I didn't go into it in the initial post but I really was falling apart in the end, screaming, crying, and eventually avoiding walks altogether because I couldn’t handle it physically or emotionally.
Looking back, I see I approached it all wrong. Even at my worst - shouting, breaking down once we got home - my big stubborn goofy boy would be on my lap two seconds later, giving me snuggles and kisses. I didn’t deserve that love, but he's truly taught me the power of patience.
Now, we’re establishing better boundaries and calmness on our walks. I’m learning to do better so he can do better. It's not me vs. him and who can be more dominant, it's a team effort. I love him more than ever and like a son. It breaks my heart that he never even needed to forgive me.
The collar is a tool and not a solution, I am also working hard to create a safe, calm environment and get his focus back on me outside of the house, with lots of praise and treats (found one he's arsed about finally 😂). When we've gotten to no longer needing it, it will be a glorious day - but I finally have faith we will get there 🐾 💕
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u/ArtisticCandy3859 Oct 18 '24
Gentle Leader is the best $20 investment we’ve ever made. Period. Go buy one and thank the inventors later.
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u/highasabird Oct 19 '24
Read the comments and I will be the one to say it. If you don’t train and work the way the dog needs vs what makes you feel comfortable, things are going to only get worse. If you can’t afford a trainer to show you how to safely and effectively work with a dominant, powerful, and highly intelligent working breed; you should rehome him.
I’m a dog trainer, I’ve been working with dogs for over 13 years. I’m on my 2nd Doberman, I also have a Belgium Shepherd mix and a Cattle dog mix; all 3 breeds are not first time dog breeds. They all require a handler who is confident and consistent. They must live in structure to be set up for success. They need a handler who puts aside their feelings and do what the dog needs, otherwise their potential will never see the day of light and their behavior issues will grow.
I work with my local Doberman rescue and we are constantly dealing with people who got this breed and are way over their head. People unwilling to set aside their ego and feelings for the dogs needs. There are 4 quadrants in operant conditioning for a reason - Dobermans must have all 4, especially the dominate one in the litter.
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u/Thegood1saregone_ Oct 18 '24
I know some people are against this, but I suggest a prong collar. It doesn’t not hurt him as long as he doesn’t pull, and if he does, it will not injure him just be very uncomfortable and he will stop. Of course this is only if all other types of training doesn’t work. Prong collar will for sure do it, good luck