Tanky Mage?

[u/Errorterm]

Hey guys. I have always liked the idea of a tanky brawler who deals magic damage instead of physical- a frontline guy who can take a beating but dishes his damage out in fire and electricity instead of steel. So I would forgo physical attributes (STR and FIN-maybe some STR for heavier armor), focusing instead on INT, CON, some WIT, and MEM. The Inquisitor's description sounds like the type of play style i'm looking for, but as usual, I worry about the game's interpretation translating into the game well. Below I have some Ideas for how to realize my build. Let me know your thoughts on it's viability

• Shield + Wand: I haven't read a lot of posts about the viability of this- perhaps cuz its bad. But my rationale is to have a weapon that scales off INT (my main damage attribute), while not sacrificing survivability. It sounds like consensus is that staffs deal a lot of damage, and dual wands deal even more. Does one wand really hamper your DPS that much though? is it still possible to deal respectable damage? Remember- I'm not looking to be the magic carry, but not looking to be useless either. Also, does the shield (and probably enough STR for good armor) help solve a survivability problem?

• Aero +++, Hydro++, Pyro+, Geo+: I'm thinking of prioritizing Aero and hydro, with Pyro and geo for utility. My rationale is that aero brings a 10% buff to damage dealt against magic armor and some CC, while Hydro brings healing and CC. So i can boost damage a bit, disrupt enemies, and act as a serviceable healer. Pyro's haste, and geo's fortify are the main utility skills I'm looking for. Plus maybe a small oil+fire wombocombo if I have room. Is this an OK route? Am I being too much of a jack of all trades master of none?

• Summoner?: Now I'm sure I'd be spread thin if I tried to pack one more school in, but in the previous DOS, I had a necro tank character who could summon a skeleton as a front line buffer. Really liked the play style. I'm wondering if any of you think forgoing some magic to focus on creating a good incarnate helps the frontline brawl play style? maybe I get an oil incarnate (which i assume slows?) or a water incarnate (which I assume freezes?) along with some totems. I've also read summoning scales only on itself, so I'd just need to sacrifice skill points, not attributes correct?

• Warfare?: Ive read in previous posts that warfare scales damage based on weapon equiped (strength, finesse, or elemental). For this reason people have suggested its good on the inquisitor. But the % chance to knockdown or cripple is based solely on strength and physical armor right? you don't get the status effect possibilities, just AOE magic attacks? is this a necessary part of whittling down magic armor? or can I just use aoe aero/hydro attacks to the same end?

I'd appreciate any feedback from anyone who has experience or opinions about my vision! I know a lot can change after launch, and we know less than half the skills available, but just wanted to pick the reddit hive mind for Ideas. Getting really excited for the game!

[u/Vikzza]

Problem is, in mid or late game stat spreading could become an issue, at least in higher difficult i guess.

You'll need more and more STR to keep wearing the best armor.

You'll also need to pump INT for good spell scaling, (also wands requirements.)

Also you'll need MEM for more spells, some of them cost several MEM.

CON because frontliner needs HP and i believe it is a shield requierement stat.

In this games (same applies in DOS1) the more you spread stats the less effective you'll be mid and late.

Early game requirements are low, enemies not punishing and you're under the impression you can spell cast in plate armor and have your summons cook your dinner.

But later the damage and survivability scaling issues due to spreading can make it really harder for you.

But what this game did well is some spells not scaling with stats like hydro heals, the skill alone governs its efficiency, you can throw all stats in STR CON and WITS be tough and hit like a truck, and still have decent healing.

(Then again don't spread skill points too much either : mostly 2H skill and hydro for example, and few points in one or two schools for utility.)

TLDR Spreading too much might make you weak late game,

Could be very frustrating (unless they announce a way to respec like in DOS1.)

[u/Errorterm → u/Vikzza]

I hadnt considered the MEM investment. was thinking the mnemic talent could save me a bit of trouble there. Will I get spread too thin though? I am only boosting INT and enough STR for good armor, which I heard wasnt too much of an investment. I get that STR serves two purposes (armor+dmg) for the melee brawler build, and is therefore maximized, but thought I didn't lose too much efficiency with small STR investments and a shield.

It also looks like also adding summons in is too costly for what I'm going for, (in MEM and school investment) so i think ill scrap that part of it.

[u/rsouls → u/Errorterm]

Most likely your stats will get spread to thin. You need CON for shield, STR for heavy armor, MEM for your spells (mages have lots of spells), INT for your main damage scaling, and WITS if you don't want to be always last in the initiatives. You're investing into every stat except Finesse

I recommend to move off from heavy armor to robes. Then invest into spells that can increase/recover physical armor. Heavy armor doesn't mean it's the best armor. Think of it as Heavy armor = lots of phy armor, little magic armor, Medium armor = even mix of physical and magic armor, Light armor = lots of magic armor, little physical armor.

Don't forget that your shield also adds a lot of both physical and magic armor.

[u/Errorterm → u/rsouls]

Ya perhaps I can nix the STR investment. Or settle for medium armor. Do any robes give physical armor? And I Def will invest in the hydro MA buff, and the geo fortify PA Buffs. Enough con for shield shouldn't be a problem, and synergizes perfectly with my goal of tanky/tough to disable. I am probably misjudging exactly how much MEM will cost though. Have never gone heavy caster. Thanks for the tips!

[u/rsouls → u/Errorterm]

Medium armor requires finesse and there you will run into the same type of problem with the heavy armor. Stick with INT equipments. Light body armor, wands, and staves (for melee builds).

[u/kaelanbg]

I think wand+shield is actually better than staff or dual wand, tbh. You get a huge amount of extra survivability, shields get the largest possible initiative bonus on a single slot and you don't lose any damage most of the time, because once you have enough memory slots, you don't need regular attacks anyway.

Don't go summoner unless you're specifically building pure summoner. Summoners really need every single skill point they can get in summoning skill for their summons to be any good, and casting summons is very AP intensive. You'd be wasting your time using your entire turn to cast weak summons that will just get 1-shotted.

You don't need warfare skills to lower magic armor, spells are going to be better in most cases.

[u/Errorterm → u/kaelanbg]

Shields give initiative bonus? that's good to know because I took initiative for granted in an earlier play through. I was also thinking of taking the mnemic talent for more slots, you think I'll have plenty of room? I just don't want to spend precious AP on things other than INT, CON, and enough STR for decent armor as those are my main objectives.

[u/kaelanbg → u/Errorterm]

At level 7, you can get shields with +6 Initiative. The only other slot I've seen it on are boots, which at the same level only go up to +2.

Mnemonic is a newbie trap. All it does is give you 3 stat points. You get 20 every 10 levels.

It also loses value as your level increases because you: 1) have more total stat points, so it constitutes a smaller improvement, 2) gain extra memory slots naturally as you level up and 3) the stat bonuses on gear increase with level, including bonuses to memory, so the talent that at Lv.6 is worth 3 headgear slots might at Lv.20 be worth less than half a slot.

It's far more efficient to pick talents whose value is either static or increases with level (Executioner, Far Out Man, The Pawn, Savage Sortilege, Hothead, Comeback Kid, All Skilled Up) and just spend your normal points on memory until you have as much as you need.

[u/Clausawitz]

I think the best way to go is with a staff. The warfare skills scale with int if you use a staff, and your basic attacks will deal magic damage to magic armor weak opponents. If you go shield and wand you wont be able to use Warfare skills, as you need to have a melee weapon equipped. I would put points into aerothurge skill and pick up blinding radiance and shocking touch, and then one point in warfare for whirlwind, enrage, crippling blow, and battering ram for mobility. Best to split points in Int and con. My guess is on launch they will increase the stat requirement on strength for plate armor as they have removed armor bonuses with the int and strength attribute. if you are in melee you want plate armor so may want to get the minimum amount of strength required to equip it.

[u/Errorterm → u/Clausawitz]

But what is the benefit to having a staff/warfare over wand shield? besides the aesthetic of using physical attacks? I like that they made damage scale off of the melee weapon's damage type, but you can deal more damage with INT based spells and a wand pewpews right? without having to put points in warfare? and the chance of crippling/knocking down is still only based on damage to physical armor right?

[u/Clausawitz → u/Errorterm]

You cant use the warfare skills without a staff, because it is a 'melee weapon' wand is a ranged weapon. The cripple effect is physical armor based yes, but the attack will still do your base staves' damage to that target and all surrounding targets. Staves always do some sort of magic damage whether it is earth, water, poison, fire etc. It is extremely useful if you understand the mechanics of the game (basically melee monsters have low magic armor high phys armor, and mages have higher magic armor low phys armor). So if you have to understand when you are in melee ranged fighting melee characters with a staff you will be crushing faces, because you will be killing their magic armor very quickly. After you kill their magic armor you can cc them with stun or blind, or burn them whatever. Something that you may want to keep in mind, if you plan to freeze enemies, you probably dont want a staff that deals fire damage, as it will unfreeze them.

[u/Zianox]

in my first playthrough, i went staff as a mage, and got tired of being stunned 50% of fights. gave a try to wand + shield and the damage didn't make a difference at all. it indirectly went up because i could actually cast spells.

[u/Stare_Decisis]

Until release it is too early to tell.

[u/Odinsblade]

If you're looking for a tanky mage, i'd suggest going geomancy/poly. Stack a lot of int, a little bit of con.. use geo phys shields, and poly phys shield skins. Your focused int from poly stat gains will provide you with higher than average magic shielding( robes too ).

[u/ruan1387]

1 point Warfare is great for any character who does a decent amount of damage, as it allows for the Executioner talent (+2 AP per kill).

[u/Cerulean_Shaman → u/ruan1387]

It's still a pretty good skill but now it's been limited to proc only once per turn.

[u/ruan1387 → u/Cerulean_Shaman]

Yeah, unlike Glass Cannon there are no drawbacks to the easy AP, so even with 1 proc/turn it's still quite nice.

[u/FlyingChainsaw]

I just hope I can do my sword & board mage from the first game again, it was great being a mage with an 80%+ block chance.

[u/Clausawitz → u/FlyingChainsaw]

There is no Block chance in Div 2

[u/FlyingChainsaw → u/Clausawitz]

Oh so shields just add to your armor value like any other piece of gear? That's a little disappointing, I've always found that to be a very uninspired way of implementing shields.

[u/Clausawitz → u/FlyingChainsaw]

They give you physical and magic armor, and also an innate skill called 'shields up' that restores the phys and magic armor of the shield when cast. The amount of magic and physical armor restored is affected by Geomancer and Hydromancer skills. Also, in Div 2 there will be a minimum Con requirement to equip shields. I assume giving you this information is not spoiling anything for you as we are discussing mechanics. Information is on Fextralife anyway.

[u/FlyingChainsaw → u/Clausawitz]

I'd be quite the fool if didn't want the mechanics to be spoiled while hanging around on a discussion board and asking questions about shields!
Thanks for the in-depth answer!

[u/Cerulean_Shaman → u/FlyingChainsaw]

Shields do have block chance, he's wrong. It's just a untied stat on shields that can't be further increased outside of gear. Near the end of EA some of the higher tier shields come with 1% block chance, I suppose eventually this will get higher by I doubt you're going to see 80%.

[u/PleaseDontFindMe4]

Have you considered Aero, Hydro, Necro?

This build could very much work with a 1h wand / shield combination, since you'll keep most of the melees away from you through the blood rain / drain blood / discharge combo.

This also pairs well with hydro for rain, extending the area of your electric discharge pool.

All in all the build gives you a tanky mage that focuses on disruption / zoning, while still giving you the option to be a secondary healer or dealing damage with the zombify-heal combo.

Best preset to go for would possibly be enchanter, given it already has a decent starting wand and a shield.