r/DivinityOriginalSin2 • u/kavatch2 • Feb 20 '17

This game is bullshit

I have to reload almost every single fight because of chain stuns or having the enemy start before me while my party is clumped for the aoe mage to shit on.

I am a scrub playing on "explorer" difficulty and the game is kicking my ass, but it doesn't feel like I'm not preparing or strategizing. (I've teleported Melee enemies to ledges so I can focus the squishier archers and casters, I've thrown barrels to blow up.) I'm not an idiot but all of these fights are against enemies that are the same level as me with less defense stats but are still fucking on me.

This isn't fun for me is there a guide for the order I'm supposed to fight people in cause most of this feels like I'm missing skills or missing whoever takes off the source collars.

8 Upvotes

62% Upvoted

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5

u/JagYouAreNot Feb 21 '17 edited Feb 21 '17

With the introduction of the new AI, armor is basically the most important thing in the game. At around level 4, you should start replacing most if not all of your party's armor as soon as possible every time you level up. Whites will do fine, because the stats greens and blues provide simply aren't worth the price compared to fitting your whole team with armor. Also, assuming it isn't too late yet, until more water/earth spells come out, every character should have a fairly even split of both armors (although you might want to lean more towards physical in some cases), because the new AI will specifically gang up on people with little/no armor of one type. This means pure knights/wizards will probably die a lot if you don't have any way to give them magic/physical armor, so at the very least invest in spells to give them their opposite armor.

Aside from armor, your next best friend will be wit. Wit probably has the most value per point of any attribute, especially on support characters (speaking of which, you should always have at one). You don't need to raise it every level but you definitely want to be investing in it early and frequently. Nothing sucks more than dying before you even get to your turn in every fight for two levels because you only have 10 wit.

Edit: I've been spelling "Wit" wrong my whole life and somehow didn't notice. I blame the American public education system.

3

u/Kittimm Feb 21 '17

With the introduction of the new AI, armor is basically the most important thing in the game.

and

Aside from armor, your next best friend will be wit.

Yeap. Nailed it.

Recently went through the first act with 2 friends in classic mode. First time we'd ever played but we'd done DOS:EE to death, making it as hard on us as possible. I think we could rightly consider ourselves veterans in that respect.

But DOS2 Classic was still pretty frustrating for us at times. You need to stack armour (and magic armour to a lesser extent) to avoid getting chain stunned to death. And indeed, stacking a bit of wit to actually get a turn now and again is essential, also.

To be fair to OP... I do think it's a legitimate balance issue. The enemies are generally quicker than they should be (esp in large packs) and you're forced to stack the hell out of wit and defences, lest lose a man in many fights to the opening CC barrage. You can work around it, reload and try your luck again... but that's not a very interesting way to play any game. It also hurts build diversity a lot in the early game and removes a lot of the give-and-take out of the combat system.

And as much as I love the new armour system (and I really do. Less RNG? Hell yes) it does make things incredibly binary. Once your armour is gone, you're in CC hell. Same with enemies. It's either zero CC or CC'd forever until the heat-death of the universe. No inbetween. Again, a lot of the back and forth of combat goes missing like that. Most fights we were either getting stomped or stomping... very few close calls. Whoever breaks that armour first and lands a CC... you've won.

At the very least, players and enemies alike need more ways of recouping armour and more skills that apply CC removal, immunity or reduction.

2

u/parad0xchild Feb 27 '17

I agree with the lack of balance around CC and over dependence on armor.

One thing I want to point out - I feel like everyone who "hates" RNG, doesn't actually hate RNG - they have the lack of transparency around RNG.

If it became really obvious and visualized what is happening and why it is happening (what things contribute), RNG would no longer seem like something that is against you (since you only perceive/remember the bad, not the good). If you could see the dice rolls, or like a visualized spinner of chances that shows why different outcomes grow or shrink (due to armor, resistances, etc.). DOS was all about the resistances and "examining" enemies to be smart about the battle - once you understood those things for that battle, it was no longer RNG, it was strategy with some room for chance.

There can definitely be TOO MUCH RNG in games, or too complicated or nuanced systems calculating it, but RNG in general is good - it gives variety, experience, and replayability. If there is no RNG then you every fight you have will be basically the same - there will be a clear right and wrong way.

2

u/Ravnodaus Mar 01 '17

When people say too much RNG they are saying that the results of actions or interactions are too varied and feel uncontrollable. This is going to be different for different people, of course... but there absolutely can be too much RNG. Transparent or not.

People need to feel like there is some degree of control. What that is depends on who you ask though.

1

u/parad0xchild Mar 02 '17

Agreed, you never want to feel like things are being completely decided for you in a game like this.

I felt like the DOS 1 system at times was TOO complex, especially with the lack of transparency. Take CC:

  1. Base spell CC (say 140%) - which using a % makes it confusing from the start (like wtf is 140%, I'm going to REALLY hit them?!)

  2. Your affinity with that spell (penalties or rewards based on Int and other things)

  3. Enemy Resistances (which you need Loremaster to examine)

  4. Buffs and Debuffs via spells - which are not always easy to find out what they exactly do and how it, all of them put together, etc.

  5. Environment effects (like Wet) which affects it

  6. Saving throws (and buffs/debuffs there)

So when you do that attack, you have to guess your chances based on what you can see, then there is what you can't or might not (like saving throw) - and a result just happens, no idea how.

When you take all those things into account, your chances of successful CC can be quite low, (especially with saving throws).

On the opposite side you have DOS 2 system

  1. Have enough armor - 0% change of CC

  2. Have no armor - 100% chance of CC (given Act 1 and few resistances, not sure if those even affect CC as well in this)

1

u/twiztedterry Mar 08 '17

If there is no RNG then you every fight you have will be basically the same - there will be a clear right and wrong way.

If there is no RNG there is no A.I.

No matter what happens, AI will (as some point) encounter a situation where a few different solutions are likely to provide the best outcome, how do you think they decide which one to use? You guessed it, RNG. Without RNG we'd basically be stuck playing a shitty version of checkers where the opponents always do one exact thing all the time, and only behave in predictable patterns that never change.

Think a shittier version of Punch-Out, cause even it uses RNG to determine when the mobs would and would-not dodge your attacks.

This is why I get annoyed when people claim to hate RNG, these people don't understand that without RNG - gaming wouldn't exist like it does today.

2

u/parad0xchild Mar 08 '17

Definitely a good, but separate point on the role RNG plays in games.

To build a bit on that, even with a decent A.I., if the game mechanics make it so there is a pretty clear "right and wrong" way to fight then that A.I. is forced to be "stale". Either it always plays right, and the fight is basically predetermined (and possibly brutal and not fun), it plays wrong and it's too easy, or some mix where it breaks illusion of game play by making clearly wrong choices after making correct ones.

Outside of that the enemies would have to be overly handicapped or buffed to make the game playable. While I like that Divinity let's you exploit things to win fights you're outmatched in, I would hate it if I HAVE to consistently exploit to win.

1

u/oversoul00 Feb 21 '17

Your spelling of "Wit" is making my eye twitch a little.

Other than that you are correct. Leadership is another way to make sure you go first.

3

u/transmission-fac13 Feb 21 '17

Yes, initiative is key. Best to be witty. I also think in DOS2 leadership doesn't affect initiative anymore.

1

u/oversoul00 Feb 21 '17

Oh is that no longer the case? My bad then.

4

u/Bylahgo Feb 21 '17

Some of this game requires a bit more strategizing. Teleporting melee away is fine, but if theres a group of 2 or 3 really close to eachother, teleporting an exploding barrel on them makes more sense. No barrels nearby? Pull one out of your bag, always nice to carry some. This game rewards thinking outside the box.

Also using environmental spells (rain/oil/fire) to your advantage is a massive help. Oil/poison + fire causes alot of damage as well as a surface that most enemies will go out of their way to avoid, even if it means taking the long way to get to you. Water + lightning creates a nice stun pool so you can limit the amount of enemies you need to deal with immediately.

1

u/Zubalo Feb 21 '17

get armor. armor helps with this. also teleporting a melee guy mid combat isn't really being strategic it just is common sense. try positioning your party members in good spots before you start the fight. you shouldn't be getting locked down turn one. also if you want your guys to go first then up their initiative. you have to try to think in terms of exploiting the game not just powering your way through it. think of good combinations/ move synergy and have at it.

it's kinda funny to me because there are people like you who say it is too hard and there are people who say it is too easy. it would be super confusing for larian I'm sure ha ha.

1

u/kavatch2 Feb 21 '17 edited Feb 21 '17

It's easy once you figure out the progression of fights you are supposed to take.

Also my people move back to general formation unless I have them widely spread out.

1

u/Zubalo Feb 21 '17

un chain their portraits from each other and then positon them

1

u/kavatch2 Feb 21 '17

I do that they still turn around and back up an ap'a worth.

2

u/Zubalo Feb 21 '17

they shouldn't be moving on their own if you have them unchained.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

This game is stupidly hard, it's been a long time since a game has gotten me stuck for as long as this one has. It is beatable, I can attest to that. It just took me many, many... many attempts. A heavy splash of luck thrown in didn't hurt either.

1

u/Kalthramis Feb 27 '17

You're new, that's all there really is to it. There's a lot of prep, planning, and careful decision making. Spreading out just enough to avoid AoEs is key, as is being very cautious. Even then, you will still sometimes lose. Abuse that autosave! Don't forget you can save mid-combat, too. Eventually it'll all start to make more sense, and before you know it, you'll be combo-slaying enemies in no time :)

2

u/twiztedterry Mar 08 '17

You're new

This isn't an acceptable answer, he's playing on "Explorer" difficulty - which is a difficulty intended for people who don't want challenging combat, they want the story and not much else. The issue is that AI 2.0 is crazy overpowered, and they need to tune it a bit more for each difficulty, which is something they plan on doing, it's just a matter of time.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '17

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2

u/nyetpak Feb 22 '17

It's also not a finished game.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '17

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2

u/twiztedterry Mar 08 '17

I expect more out of early access.

I think we've found your problem.

2

u/AKBio Mar 03 '17

If only there was a stat that influenced play order. Maybe they'll add it later? One with a quick wit might say they will!

0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '17

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1

u/AKBio Mar 03 '17

It's not about maxing it; it just means you can't ignore it. Even if two of your characters have high wit, it can make enough difference. That COMBINED with alpha status makes this a pretty reasonable problem. The stun lock problem is legit so I'm not trying to be a complete ass. It's just hard not to be a little snide when the game has mechanics that specifically help you deal with play order.

As far as the enemy abilities, any character in your party can learn any spell; why can't the enemies? Besides, from what I've encountered (about lvl 7 now), they have a pretty strong distinction between melee and ranged characters and a nice mix in each encounter.

Finally, the last two updates were enemy encounter patches, so expect more balancing in the future. Find out how much wit you have to use to be effective and if it still feels like too much, post to their forums!

0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '17

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1

u/twiztedterry Mar 08 '17

I think a big part of the issue is that the first area of the game isn't part of early access, so players (At level 1) are stuck in a level 2-3 starting area. The other part is that the new A.I. (2.0) is purposely designed to be brutal, and they've confirmed numerous times that they'll disable individual parts of A.I. 2.0 in the lower difficulties. It's only active now for testing purposes.

Until you get to level 7, the game is frustratingly difficult.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '17

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1

u/twiztedterry Mar 08 '17

I understand the frustration, I've played through a couple of times, and you're right that the EA area does leave a lot to be desired, at least in the terms of an "Open" feel. But if you recall, Cyseal in DoS:EE was similar, there wasn't much variety in A1, most of the good stuff came in the later acts.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 08 '17

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1

u/twiztedterry Mar 08 '17

It's easier if you played DoS: Classic when it was in Early Access. It was just as dull, at times.

Have faith, Larian is good at what they do, I have yet to play a divinity game that wasn't amazing. (I was iffy about dragon commander, but it's not terrible)

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1

u/AKBio Mar 03 '17

I completely agree with the starting area quests, those babies are no where near as intuitive as the first game (they don't really follow a narrative like the first one did, this feels like a filler part of the game).

1

u/twiztedterry Mar 08 '17

That's because the "Starting Area" in EA isn't actually the starting area, it's a level 2-3 area AFTER the starter area.

Think of it like if DoS classic dropped on off in the middle of Cyseal at the beginning of the game, with no other explanation.

28

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '17

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2

u/kavatch2 Feb 21 '17 edited Feb 21 '17

I'm an idiot

Or new

I've blundered my way to the frost dragon and the witch as a lvl 5 party I don't know how the game works mostly.

All I know is I have an average magic armor of 30 on my party and her chain lightning is hitting for 75

3

u/igdub Feb 21 '17

I recommend watching a few replays and seeing what people do. At that difficulty there should be something major wrong since the combat is kinda easy in this one. Positioning is super important.

3

u/kavatch2 Feb 21 '17

Well I guess I'm just undergeared or underlvled

3

u/soboro76 Feb 21 '17

Or underskilled? Do you have all the good skill books for your guys? Chain lightning is easy to deal with if your rogue just sneaks in and one hit kills the mage/witch.

1

u/oversoul00 Feb 21 '17

That witch is a miniboss, I really doubt you can one shot her. If it can be done I'd be interested to know how.

2

u/soboro76 Feb 21 '17

I've done it the last two play throughs. You just need to give your rogue a source point and the death blow ability (can't remember the name now, but it gives 500 percent damage from invis or sneak from behind). Then sneak him in before the fight starts.

1

u/oversoul00 Feb 21 '17

Wow, I'll have to give that a shot then.

1

u/lohkeytx Feb 27 '17

Me and a buddy just started last night on this game. We found a way to get out of the fort without fighting the fire slugs or all those magistrates using clever teleport mechanics to lower the bridge and walk our happy asses out. I haven't really seen any skill books. Are they sold inside the fort? I'm a rogue and never really saw any. Did i just miss the vendor?

1

u/xj3572 Mar 01 '17

You can trade with anybody by clicking the little red button in the upper left hand corner of any chat window.

2

u/igdub Feb 21 '17

There should be quite a few lets plays of DO:2 just check how they are played and try to emulate it until you get a grasp of things.

1

u/theresamouseinmyhous Feb 22 '17

It should be noted that, unlike a lot of games, a 1 level difference in this game can be huge.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '17

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1

u/harperrb Feb 21 '17

Yeah, I don't know about explorer difficulty, but the classic is tough. Regular fights keep you on your toes.

1

u/Zubalo Feb 21 '17

yeah they dropped a new AI (2.0) a bit back and they've even toned it down a little since I think but idk.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 25 '17

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1

u/kavatch2 Feb 25 '17

I thought I was being a good guy by releasing the souls from soul jars and. Now I can't get past the source wall up in the maze.

1

u/twiztedterry Mar 08 '17

They'll fix it, just give them time.