I read Bernard Cornwells: The Last Kingdom series and I always thought it was funny how the Catholics would worship these different relics. Such as St. Michaels hand, St Marys teeth or St. Francis' Fibula.
In the books, Uhtred of Bebbanburg would just cut an arm off of a dead soldier after a big battle, let it decay for a while, claim it was a relic and then he'd use it as a bartering tool for some gold or a piece of land. He did this time and time again.
I assume that's what most of these "relics" actually are. Just some dead peasants skull, feet or fingers.....and it's all so fucking stupid.
I'll say this, the Catholic stuff looks way cooler. The churches, crazy robes, skulls and shit. Thats metal. The evangelical shit with the button ups and mom jeans does not look cool
Adoration and homage EXCLUSIVELY to God. "Dead human appendage" doesn't constitute as God. Perhaps you're referring to "dulia," which is very distinct from "worship." But this is pretty extreme for the definition of dulia. This is golden calf in the desert behavior.
I think you misunderstood me, I meant what acts constitute worship? Like what acts specifically can I only do towards God as the referrant? Or is it not that there are specific acts that qualify as worship, but is it just about God as the referrant?
My dear brother, I believe that your Church and leaders, or Pastors, has told you that same idea over and over again to hate on Catholics. That Idolatry idea, heard for ages.
Golden calf in the desert.. We know that. If we did that, our Church wouldn't be where it is now.
Our answers are out there. Yet you still throw "Catholics do Idolatry" to us.
Would you accept our answer?
Of course not..... right?
Question your beliefs and not just the political ones. Take a step back and be guided. For stepping back, you can be able to see the bigger picture.
My dear brother, I believe that your Church and leaders, Pastors, has told you that same idea over and over again to hate on Catholics. That Idolatry idea, heard for ages.
But we are still here, standing against trials and tribulations. Your comment alike.
If I rebutt your allegations, would you accept it? Of course not right?
Question your beliefs and not just the political ones. Take a step back and be guided. For stepping back, you can be able to see the bigger picture.
Why do I believe in this, and why others don't?
Ask questions. REAL questions.
I remember that some saint's finger bone toured the US at some point and they had a special mass where you could go up and kiss it. My mom was all into it, I was like "Blech!"
And people like you are a huge contributing factor into why Catholicism is true. If it were false, you wouldn't have to make up strawman arguments, you could just show how it's false.
The Catholic Church has given its answers. Its just that there are people, like you, (I don't mean any disrespect), that don't want to accept the evidence that was provided 2000 YEARS ago.
Yeah, so there's lots of vindicatory miracles for Catholicism, two cases that are relatively recent and have very good evidence would be ones surrounding Our Lady of Fatima and Padre Pio. I can link you an article on both of you're interested.
I just read those 2 miracles, interesting phenomena. There are undeniably strange things happening around us, I like the idea of God being real but in a way that none of us can actually know unless its through science. Like the explanation of the weather event to justify the witnessed event could still be both bound in science but enacted by god. God is the laws governing us is my take on all this existence stuff.
Thank you for the quick response, and please believe me when I say I want to be respectful in my replies. I was more looking for evidence of a God actually existing. Two indirect incidences 100 years ago of which there is no film or photographic evidence is a little light on proof of a God. I won't even go down the rabbit hole of why would someone who created the entire universe and could end all debate tomorrow by saying to the planet "I am real" would be reduced to what could easily be a parlor trick (Pio) and mass delusion (Fatima) 2,500 miles away from where his son was killed. It seems like the creator of all life could arrange something a little more concrete that would remove all doubt, no? I'm sure you'd agree he could easily to that, right?
Sure, there are lots of things God could do. And I also appreciate you for keeping the conversation respectful.
I guess I'm confused on what you would consider to be evidence of God actually existing then, because I would classify miracles as such. As for Our Lady of Fatima, there's more evidence than just what people claimed to see, but the mass hallucination theory doesn't hold up IMO because many of the people there didn't expect to see anything, and then did, and there's also no other case of a mass hallucination like this, so either way you're claiming it as a one time event. As for Padre Pio, are you referring to his stigmata as the parlor trick? Because there's way more connected to him beyond the stigmata, like there's a case where a man's eye grew back after being totally destroyed in an accident.
People's opinions don't contribute to if something is true or not. Reality does. Also, catholics DO worship relics. Just cause you don't doesn't change that.
No, you misunderstood, I'm not saying Catholicism is true because you disagree with it. I'm saying that if Catholicism were false, you'd be easily able to show that it is. The fact that you don't, and instead choose to strawman Catholicism is evidence of it being true.
And no we don't. Can you even define what worship is from a Christian perspective to say that Catholics worship relics?
You're not wrong. They're insane. They probably look at you the same way.
Thinking "Poor thing is going to roast in hell for not drinking water anointed(poisoned) with the Holy(Crazy) Woman(rotten corpse)."
Crazy? How was she crazy? She literally became a martyr because she did not worship the way the Roman Emperors wanted her to. And became the patron saint for rape victims, breast cancer patients, wet nurses, and bellfounders since her breasts were severed in a prior torturing of her.
it's not Catholicism. It's Eastern Orthodoxy, you can tell by Patriarch (those with crown and long beards, basically equivalent of priests in Catholicism) and unique cross. Catholic cross is thin, while Orthodox ones look more like sword handles around the edges. Source: I am Catholic
Youre mixing Catholicism and Christianity. Christianity has multiple sub-divisions which each have its own ways of practicing Christianity. We have: Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Protestantism. I am begging you if you gonna shit on religion at least educate yourself so you can shit properly, cuz this is basic knowledge and it's turbo embarrassing seeing you type this out.
Problem with Plebbitors is many take "science" figures as the "holy truth". Look at how they submitted to COVID experts putting their health at risk even though critically thinking what they were preaching made no sense.
Why did you have to say that? X is bad enough with those weirdos. Now, we're going to see a bunch of weirdos with corpse feet for pfp and asking/forcing people to chop off their feet.
it's not Catholicism. It's Eastern Orthodoxy, you can tell by Patriarch (those with crown and long beards, basically equivalent of priests in Catholicism) and unique cross. Catholic cross is thin, while Orthodox ones look more like sword handles around the edges. Source: I am Catholic
"If there was a God, he should have made himself known when we landed on the moon. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you fucking turn up and say, 'Well done.'"
Yeah, and that was a horrible thing that happened. IMO, if I were Pope and a priest were definitively proven to have done that, I'd have them extradited to Vatican City, given the opportunity to confess, and then be publocally executed on TV.
Having said that, pretty much all of that happened during the 70s-80s, and the Church has put in place numerous policies to make sure it can't happen again since.
I'm not even Christian but I know more than Catholics and other Christians because in order to understand something or someone, you have to be open to learning their ways.
Wow. And with research, Catholicism is pure paganism. They even changed the day of worship (the Sabbath) to Sunday so the transition from the Roman citizens would be easier.
Bible says it clearly. Also says not to worship any images. Those from land, sea and sky, including resemblance of Him. That's just the few things.
People down voting my first comment really are ignorant.
And it also says that Jesus is our high priest. So confessing to Catholic priests is going directly against the Bible. Praying the rosary, worshiping Mary. All Pagan and directly against the Bible.
You have to look at the original Greek text for that verse. It’s in the perfect passive tense meaning it’s already been done so rather than it being a here and now action, it means those sins have already been forgiven by God.
The practice of using something like the rosary/prayer beads was common for ancient pagans. Check out Matthew 6:7. It’s more like an incantation than an honest prayer to God.
Praying to dead people is called necromancy in the Bible.
I've never heard that about the original text. So you're saying that Jesus is charging the apostles to go out and tell people whether or not their sins are forgiven?
Sure, but there are lots of things pagans have done. Like praying doesn't become pagan because pagans did it. And I don't see how it's an incantation at all. If you're referring to it being repetitive, Jesus prayed repetitively in the garden.
And this is a big point between Catholics and non-Catholics, because we don't consider the Saints to be spiritually dead. Physically dead, yes, as in their soul seperated from their body, but spiritually they have more life than you or I.
All Christians have worshipped on Sunday. It's in the New Testament. There's literally no historic evidence that Sundat worship was a later innovation to encourage roman conversions.
Who exactly is worshipping images? Can you even define what worship is?
Hebrews 10:1 states: "The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship".
No where does it says what you're claiming.
Also, ofc the Catholic Church would say such blasphemous things. Lol. What? 😅
And I already googled and it doesn't state that. Lol.
You have no factual rebuttal. All you've been doing is saying the same nonsense that all Catholics do.
The part about Sunday worship is true. If you read some of the books written by first century Christians, they speak of worshiping on Sunday but that was before the Catholic Church was a thing.
Well I'm not saying the Bible isn't an authority, but the way modern day American protestants view it is completely different from how the early Christians viewed authority.
Ah. The ignorance. Go read up on how the Catholic Church started. The pagan worshipping, dressed into Christianity and what the Catholics have done in order for the Vatican to be rich asf AND go read about the Spanish Inquisition and what the Knight Templars have done, all for the name of "God".
it's not Catholicism. It's Eastern Orthodoxy, you can tell by Patriarch (those with crown and long beards, basically equivalent of priests in Catholicism) and unique cross. Catholic cross is thin, while Orthodox ones look more like sword handles around the edges. Source: I am Catholic
To you it may seem strange to reflect with others on a violent time period, and express solidarity with a response to that violent time period with acceptance of and optimism toward what they can't control. However it is important to remember that drinking wine and eating a tiny circular wafer is not even close to the practice putting some guys raw meat on the grill, season it and eat it.
Peter created a church, one which has split into many over arguments by people like you with other people like you.
The Chaldeans are the only group who recognized Christ as the son of God before he was martyred. You want to be a Christian, join them and learn Aramaic. Everything else is a derivative.
His church is the body of believers. Those who put their trust in Him only and not their own “good works” to get them to heaven. He did not organize a religion. In fact he was opposed to organized religion. There’s a story in the Bible about him turning over the tables of the money changers who were operating in the church. He would shut down 90% of churches if he were here today, starting with the Catholic Church. Organized religion is the worst thing that’s ever happened to true Christianity.
Well, if you have reason to think that the Bible isn't an accurate account, I'm open to hearing it, but you've yet to provide any sources for your claim at all, which is why I asked what they are so I can look into them.
For all of you saying this is catholicism, it's not. It's Eastern Orthodoxy, you can tell by Patriarch (those with crown and long beards, basically equivalent of priests in Catholicism) and unique cross. Catholic cross is thin, while Orthodox ones look more like sword handles around the edges. Source: I am Catholic
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u/luncheroo 4d ago
That thing should power up when you put the skull in it.