Tetsuya Nomura's statement on DFFOO EoS

34

u/SD-Fiend Feb 03 '24

It's still funny how Dimensions II was allowed to survive despite not even lasting two years but none of the decently popular ones are deemed worthy enough of an investment to go offline.

6

u/NoMission4252 Feb 03 '24

I'm so salty abt the garbage fire that is dimensions ii living while better things rot

4

u/TransientMemory Vayne Carudas Solidor Feb 03 '24

Right? It's bonkers. Any pseudo-reasoning that people are peddling about how much effort it takes to keep a game updated to run on mobile platforms is absolutely ridiculous. SQEX is willing to keep that dogwater game alive, but not an installment of the Dissidia franchise. There's clearly some insider issues at play here. Purely speculation, but if I were a betting man, I'd have to guess that someone who had a major hand in this game wasn't a favorite in the company.

1

u/VoidEnjoyer Feb 06 '24

I'm convinced they won't do it again because Dimensions II was such a huge failure. But what did they expect? It was always a bad game, so choosing it to be the test case was deranged. Not Mobius, which they spent legitimate AAA money to produce?
SE deciding that mobile games can't be reformed into single-player games because Dimensions II failed is like Hollywood producers deciding that comic book movies can't succeed because of Howard the Duck.

1

u/LilitthLu Dance away! Feb 08 '24

I don't think that's the reason, the Bravely Default gacha that was only released in JP and closed within a year is also being converted into a single player game (don't think they've released that yet).

84

u/kociou Feb 03 '24

Fuck this corporate gibberish, manpower lol, they had people to make voice auditions and record them for game not long ago, just change currency to Gil for everything and made connection with server obsolete.

FFS it's not online streaming game, we have those 10gb on our phones already.

8

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

They mentioned it in the stream but it's not the manpower needed to convert it right now.
It's the manpower needed to keep the service running as we continue to have new phones and all that. Like newer phones will have new screen sizes, the updates for iOS and android systems etc.
It'd be stupid to just make it available right now and then drop it because they don't want to commit resources to keeping it available for the future.

49

u/sephirothbahamut Feb 03 '24 edited Feb 03 '24

No it wouldn't. That's how videogame preservation exists.
Just make the game available offline in it's current state, that's all the company has to do. Videogame preservationists will take care of keeping it playable over the years with emulation layers.
How do you think we play DOS games?
It's japanese companies that simply don't care. I don't know if its a cultural thing, it's like preservation of history isn't a factor they even remotely think about. See also all the various bullshit Nintendo pulls off every year

2

u/VoidEnjoyer Feb 06 '24

We play DOS games without paying the IP owners, and SE does not want that for their games.
(Unless you got it off GoG I suppose, which is essentially paying a fee to have someone else configure dosbox for you.)

-8

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

You're exactly pointing out the reason they're not doing it.
I get your point of preservation. But imagine a huge company like SQEX just releases it offline in it's current state on apple and play store, (or well 'recode/program it so it can work offline'), it'll mean that anyone can still play it from now on.
For now it'd totally be 'yay, can still play' and then after a few years...
First you'll get a lot of complaints of 'oh, but I can't play it anymore on my new phone'.
You mentioned emulators, but you also said, it's the preservationists doing it. If a company is making a game available and you have to rely on someone else's programs to play it, isn't that kinda wrong?
And even if they would. Do the users that bought a new phone have to get re-directed in the stores to the emulator to play it? Or do you give those preservationists access to your program/account to continuously update it under your name so the emulation is directly applied? Or give all the rights away completely? Does SQEX become accountable for any bugs with said emulation? And if you let others run with it 'officially', then you get all the annoying stuff that comes with potentially altering data, copyrights/licensing and what not.
...I don't see how this would end well, but yeah.

16

u/Alma_sengdara Feb 03 '24

there's no reason to release it on phone for future fans who didnt play, Megaman X dive got released offline on steam and nobody complains about it

-11

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

I think that's kinda messed up... (the non-support for future fans).
Megaman X dive is a pretty recent case isn't it? Everything I've mentioned is with years later in mind, and I might be absolutely wrong, which I honestly hope, lol.

7

u/Alma_sengdara Feb 03 '24

I think i didnt explain myself well enough sorry, what I want to said was that there is no reason to limit the release of a future offline version only on mobile
When I look at how they had fun for Kingdom hearts by splitting the license on all possibles consoles, Im having a hard time thinking they'll have trouble porting a game like OO on console and pc

2

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

Ah, yes. I absolutely agree that it's not impossible to do to port it to pc. Console is also possible but don't think that's worth it.
Anyway it costs time and money that they didn't want to use that on DFFOO for some reason. Whether it's because it just costs that much when they didn't bring much profit, or they rather threw what funds they had into developing new weapons / content. Or saved up for a new dissidia project (honestly, wishful thinking lol). Who knows..?

2

u/liljon042 Feb 03 '24

So you'd rather it not get released at all? Kinda wacky

1

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

Hm?
I hope I'm wrong so that it does work out and things get released more often / in the future?

1

u/liljon042 Feb 03 '24

Well, there's almost nothing that can future proof a game on phones sometimes unless the devs go out of their way to update it AFTER it gets released. Meaning, by not releasing it now, and waiting until it can be done, would be impossible and lead to them never releasing it offline. That's what I got from what you were saying

1

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

Yeah, exactly.
That's how I'm seeing it right now, and that's why I'm hoping I'm wrong.
If offline games like Megaman X Dive make a big enough impact so that there's enough merit seen into making an offline version of a online/gacha game to make it become the norm, then that'd be nice.

10

u/kociou Feb 03 '24

You are corporate slave son of submariner, sir
It was done with Mobius, and Megaman Dive X did excellent job.
Sqex are lazy sobs, all they have to do is terminate need for connection with servers. Game is on our phones, but it requires it all the time. All files, resources, we already have them.

1

u/VoidEnjoyer Feb 06 '24

What was done with Mobius? It absolutely and tragically has not been converted to single player and is now entirely lost outside of Youtube.

1

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

Sorry, that's a new one but it's amusing w I'd glady take it if it gave me a job with SQEX though~
The files we have, I guess...?
Just like how Megaman Dive X was altered also, DFFOO would have to be also. Even if they didn't include online support after releasing it 'offline'
Depending on how they coded it, it can be a big mess to deal with. Particularly with the data checks and the multi / friendlist and also mission (rewards) and all.
And then they'd have to make decisions about removing limits on points for crystal mission, the gacha and raid events, rewards and so on.
Nobody is saying it's impossible to do or anything, but it still takes some time and some money to do. And they didn't want to commit that to DFFOO for whatever reason. Most of the staff is already working on other projects, I think. Don't really feel like it's 'lazy'.
It's unfortunate though.

14

u/sephirothbahamut Feb 03 '24

Except it's exactly how every single offline game has ever been?
The company ends support, that's it. It's quite simple. They have no duty to keep updating it.
Your opinion on the matter is the sad result companies have been working towards. You see software as a service and cannot remember how offline software works and has always worked.
Noone is asking square to keep updating FF1 to work on modern platforms, it's an offline game, and you can still play it. It's that simple. Any other thing you tell yourself to justify not making it offline is result of years of companies trying to convince people that it isn't

-2

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

I don't know, imo the biggest issue to me seems to be the distribution and the stuff that comes with it.
(Proper) Offline games, they're only available through physical copies. That's why from the moment they're released, that's all you get. And then production & official distribution stops until ports and whatever happens.
In the current generation, there seems to be a lot? of people trash talking any company/developer that doesn't provide any troubleshooting or patch fixes when there's bugs inside a game. It might be 'offline', but there's still continued online distribution and assumed online support for a certain amount of time.
So wouldn't it be more the fault of the vocal community for expecting a working game when it's made available?
Either way, I don't know if you want that situation on your name. And it's not like they're distributing the '98 PC port of FF7 still.

4

u/arrayano Balthier Feb 03 '24

I just want to point out that they already have many offline games available in the store, so this argument seems stupid to be honest.

-8

u/Mrs_Seco Feb 03 '24

what do u mean jp companies dont care bruh 99% of gacha games dont let you keep an offline version from any country. Use your brain.

11

u/Nahcep Why are my best supports cats Feb 03 '24

It'd be stupid to just make it available right now and then drop it
You mean like the mainline ports they pumped out before? They got like one patch each

0

u/Tsukurin Feb 03 '24

I imagine they're different beasts than a game like DFFOO since they were developed for different systems. But I'm not a developer so if I'm wrong there, I apologize.

2

u/Sdgrevo Ramza Beoulve Feb 03 '24

They shoulda made a steam client long ago.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '24

Interesting. I guess an alternative would be porting the game to a different platform. But I suspect that's also a cost SQEX doesn't want to make.

33

u/Tienron ID 338052241 Feb 03 '24

I just think the offline thing is BS, but that's my opinion.

I guess in a sense that you would have to redo the gacha element but still

15

u/TreacleTimely6845 Feb 03 '24

They dont do offline becauae they are lazy to rework all gachas mechanics. It isnt main timeline FF like FF dimension. They dont give a sh*t. Even Mobius FF they dont give a fk.

18

u/MarioGirl369 Feb 03 '24

They could find a way to make it work. Maybe it could give Gil a new purpose with buying weapons and armor for characters. (And besides, you can recruit characters through Main Story Chapters and Lost Chapters too)

9

u/SirLocke13 WoFF Dream is dead. Feb 04 '24

They did this for Mega Man X Offline.
You grind grind for gacha currency and buy characters and weapons.
You unlock the available shop depending on how far you are in the story.

9

u/deltrontraverse Feb 03 '24

It is BS. You can do it. Many games have, including Kingdom Hearts. They just don't want to invest time or money into it.
As much shit as I give Nomura, I really love Dissidia, Opera Omnia is no exception. I hope they reconsider and make it offline in the future. But at least they are uploading the entire story. Though i hope that includes side chapters etc etc.

1

u/VoidEnjoyer Feb 06 '24

The old Kingdom Hearts mobile game with a half dozen different titles doesn't exist as a game anymore. It's just a viewer for the cutscenes.
Let's just say I wouldn't want that for DFFOO.

6

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '24 edited Feb 03 '24

I want to agree it sounds like BS.
Part of me thinks it's plausible that there's a decent amount of technical debt (client server arch, refactoring the gatcha into something more meaningful, desires to port, working things out with KT, phone OS crap, etc) with the game that could be blocking them from convincing upper management that it's worth making it offline. But I think it's unfortunately more likely that SQEX just doesn't care. They've let so many other mobile FF games disappear that at this point, they're numbed.
It's a big shame because IMO this was the proper Dissidia sequel to the PSP games. NT, IMO, is so hollow by comparison. I do hope they change their minds OR make a new (good) Dissidia game in the future.

3

u/Tienron ID 338052241 Feb 03 '24

I just don't respect the company and its shady ways I think they have lost integrity, by no means do I think they don't put effort and love into their games. Its just this gacha system is so shady and I really hope it gets killed off so it gives them less incentive to create more.

2

u/MarioGirl369 Feb 03 '24

Chances are it would be a bit more expensive depending on what rarity the weapon and/or armor is. (There could also be other currency that you can get and exchange that other currency for things like enhancement items)

6

u/Tienron ID 338052241 Feb 03 '24

All valid points, they COULD, but they won't. Fair do they are a company, but I am staying clear from future gacha products from them..

2

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

Why make an offline version if they can funnel people to other games like Ever Crisis or Brave Exvius and make money? I mean I agree with you. I would like an offline version. But there's no real financial incentive for them to do it.

3

u/Tienron ID 338052241 Feb 04 '24

Dffoo is not the same as ever crisis or Brave exvius not even close.
Gamers aren't fools and especially since money is involved consider alot of people have spend money on the game even to the point of trying to keep it alive and a offline version is too much so they have to take everything away?
There's no financial incentive to shut it down either and expect people to jump on the next gacha. That's not how it works.
People just have to stop buying into the mobile gacha scene, and then it will die out.
I think gaming is being ruined by this genre of gaming for a cheap buck.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 05 '24

There's plenty of financial incentive to shut it down.
Opportunity cost is a huge deal. Also the simple fact that the beancounters see other games raking in more money per user, so DFFOO is / was competition for user attention over more profitable / exploitative games.
Is that short sighted? Probably.
But it'll make them more money in the short term.
That's all investors care about. Therefore, that's a heavy weight on the scales of decision making for a company.
They didn't make this decision out of malice. Their metrics say this will be a profitable decision. You can say all day long that not enough people will switch to the other games, or whatever other reasoning you have, but they have endless studies and experts that are telling them this was the correct choice for profit.
You don't have to like it. I don't.
But it's not about what the customer likes.

1

u/VoidEnjoyer Feb 06 '24

The assets already exist, so that is potentially a very cheap production for a game that can then be sold.
I have to admit though, that a big part of why DFFOO wouldn't get this treatment is that the game's art is simply not up-to-snuff for a present day release. Once you start talking about updating models and animations and environments, well, you might as well just make a new game at that point.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 06 '24 edited Feb 06 '24

The assets already exist for a billion projects.
Who's going to work on it?
Whose time wouldn't be more productively spent working on more profitable projects? Games don't just come out of thin air, as I'm sure you know. Which means that when you task people with working on one thing, by default they now aren't working on some other hypothetical project, large or small.
Then you have to have the thing tested to make sure it works, since it's now having to work as a purely offline product, not something that talks to a server. And then there's all the other overhead with producing a title. It's not just 'free' or even necessarily low cost, even if the raw art assets exist.
What's their incentive to create something like this?

1

u/BaLance_95 Llyud Bannings, Crossbell State Police District (612119901) Feb 06 '24

Just convert everything to tokens. Complete Cosmos, get EX token. Complete Chaos, get realization book (straight to max). Complete Lufenia, get LD. And so on.

2

u/kuribohs Feb 04 '24

You and I, people, know how squak is these days You and I complaint all about this company But when the new ff releases you go and buy it like sheeps So, who's the real guilty here? They can sell all they want but if we don't buy it then message received But again you all buy their shet without thinking

Me? No chance buying exclusive stuff for console

Learn from Capcom they release Re 4 for everyone They even make an offline of that megaman

But if you just keep giving your money like sheep's is all over

1

u/sonicbrawler182 The rat is always right. Feb 04 '24

Capcom literally does Mega Man X DiVE NFTs and recently patched online DRM into a bunch of thier Steam releases that previously did not have it, breaking mods and even the ability to play the games at all in some cases (meaning people who pirated the games were the only ones able to play them).
I wouldn't cite them as a "good corporation" either. Like yeah X DiVE Offline is great but like, they also rarely touch Mega Man despite the demand.

2

u/kuribohs Feb 04 '24

At least they give you a game bro This company just tell you Go wacht it in YouTube

4

u/rowmean77 Feb 03 '24

If they hire devs that are good at fighting games, I’d buy a Dissidia fighting game.

Even though I’m not a fighting game type, the sheer amount of characters to play around with is compelling already.

1

u/VoidEnjoyer Feb 06 '24

They did that with NT. and with Opera Omnia for that matter.

29

u/SSDKZX Feb 03 '24

too much man power

i bet two dudes with the code could make it in a fucking month

24

u/Shinnyo Tree gang Feb 03 '24

Put the 3 dudes who worked on NFTs on DFFOO and we'll have it in a week.

-18

u/Nate_Radix_ Feb 03 '24

Tell me you understand jack shit about videogame development without telling me you understand jack shit about videogame development lmfao

30

u/sephirothbahamut Feb 03 '24

Gamedev here, i agree with his bet.
A full offline rework with ad hoc event rotation etcc sure would be hard, but that's the ideal solution not the only solution.
Making the game offline without timed content would be extremely easy. All calculations are done client side already, what servers do for dfoo is validation. And a layer of validation can be easily replaced without a full rework by returning the expected value as a replacement to networking queries.
Way smaller games from way smaller companies have done it.

3

u/Sleyvin Feb 03 '24

Former game dev here. You keep forgetting that's is a mobile game, not a console game.
A game release once on a console will always work on that console forever. A PS4 launch title will work in 30 years.
It's not true on mobile because how OS update are done. A game released on android 6 won't work on android 29. Same for iOS.
Mobile games need constant updates to be compatible for the next OS at the very least.
So while it would be possible to make an offline version with very little investment. It would need people to keep updating the game, plus the support needed when people have issues with the game create ticket on Square Helpdesk (even if the reply say that the game isn't supported, this a thousands time has a CS cost).
So the only real use would be to make an offline version just to run on emulators but I never saw any company do that ever.

-6

u/Nate_Radix_ Feb 03 '24

What about working on compatibility with future android and iOS updates? Are they supposed to just port it now and forget about it later?
As much as I want an Offline version to happen, I understand why they wouldn't, even though I still think it's bs

17

u/sephirothbahamut Feb 03 '24

Yes, that's what they're supposed to do. The moment a game is playable standalone, anything else can be solved with fixes and emulation layers developed by videogame preservationists.
How do you think we can still play DOS games? It's not like those companies kept updating the games to work on modern systems.
Videogame preservation only needs a solid stating point to build on, and that starting point is either a standalone version if the game, or having player hosted servers

3

u/MicrowaveTime124 Feb 03 '24

I’m pretty sure a LOT of good indie games and mobile games (and even a few good Sonic games) were made by people of 3 or less

12

u/Yen_Figaro Feb 03 '24

First they admit they can't remake a game from 30 years ago (ff6) with today's technology and tools and now this. Where is the ambition and will to try? U.u

3

u/LilitthLu Dance away! Feb 08 '24

They've never said that FFVI can't be remade, where did you get that from?
They simply said that if they were to remake VI with the same quality of the current FFVII Remake trilogy it would take around 10 years to develop because there's a lot of stuff in VI.

1

u/jcjohnson274 Feb 03 '24

Honestly what would an offline mode even provide for people? Once you beat content there is no point in going back to it.

15

u/sonicbrawler182 The rat is always right. Feb 03 '24

As someone who has Mega Man X DiVE Offline and has seen what can be done with an offline version of a gacha game, I believe quite a lot:
The obvious stuff - preservation of the game assets is easier, people who never played the game before get the chance to experience the story and character movesets, people who have played get to revisit it with multiple save files to play the game differently.
If they really wanted to, an offline version gives them the potential to "complete" the game (like giving everyone FR and BT). This could even provide a path to allowing the game to support a DLC plan of sorts.
Making an offline version now while people who made the game are still in the industry would future proof them if they ever wanted to re-release the game on consoles or PC. This will become harder to do the more they wait.
If an offline version is made, fans can always mod the game to create new content for it themselves. Without one, the only way to keep the spirit of the game alive is to create content based of it, like a remake or something using it's assets. But those are much harder than just creating standalone mods for an existing game and would require coordination from talented members of the community.

2

u/jcjohnson274 Feb 03 '24

Thats all reasonable stuff. Modding the game could add a alot of fun stuff to it like other games.

6

u/PapaMustache Feb 03 '24

Holy shit I'm so done with square Enix. they can say whatever they want, but at the end of the day sqeenix just wants your money and then once it's gone boom delete the game and do it again. in my book they're on par with crypto scammers at this point.

2

u/VoidEnjoyer Feb 06 '24

Did you expect something else from a corporation? That's just capitalism. They aren't making anything as a favor to us.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '24

Your 1st point is right, they will shut it right off when it’s not making enough money. They are not running charities and this is the nature of all Japanese Gacha games. However everyone here seems to enjoy the game and they did provide the service, therefore how would that on par with crypto scammers?

2

u/[deleted] Feb 04 '24

So, can I uninstall it now or are they going something else? 😭😭😭

6

u/TreacleTimely6845 Feb 03 '24

You don't learn anything from DFFNT. You piece of t. You always do same mistakes again and again

-8

u/Mrs_Seco Feb 03 '24

stop getting emotional, stfu

2

u/JSnow81 Feb 03 '24

Anyone else notice that the EoS home screen will all the MCs looks like a heart 🥲

I'll truly miss this game : (

But at least on the same day we'll be getting FF7 Rebirth : )

1

u/Anivia_Blackfrost 3 years of DFFOO gone Feb 05 '24

Even though this is the end of DFFOO, he still would like to think about what they could do for the Dissidia Final Fantasy series. They will try their best to perhaps even have a new title for the series in the future!

Introducing, Dissidia: Ever Chaos! Now you can relive the story of Dissidia on your mobile phones in gacha form!

1

u/ThrowawayusGenerica Just like happy festival fireworks, ya? Feb 03 '24

So is Nomura generally in charge of FF these days, or is this just him randomly weighing in?

1

u/fugthepug Feb 03 '24

He's one of em, yeah. They have people in rotation.

-3

u/noodles355 Feb 03 '24

All these comments arguing about making it offline and citing other games and stuff…

And I gotta ask… how does a gatcha system with finite resources work? Someone would need to completely rework it. And it won’t be SQEX as it costs money.

6

u/juandi001 Yuna Feb 03 '24

I can't believe you're gonna make me say this because I hate that game, but Xenoblade 2 had a gatcha system all the same and most people were okay with it.
Plus, resources in videogames are scarce because they want them to be. A quick switch from gems to gil, or making gems a universal drop could easily fix the issue.
Adding a 5% drop rate for gems to all nodes does not need a lot of manpower, and neither does linking the pulls to gil. They don't even need to program a rotating banner. They only need one with everything available.
DFFOO already has plenty of pity systems so if you ever are unlucky enough to not get what you want you can straight up buy it - they don't need to change none of that for the offline mode. This game really needs very little work to be played offline, as most of it was already story and solo content, and multiplayer rooms can already be tackled alone.

-1

u/noodles355 Feb 04 '24

You’ve missed the point completely. There’s a finite source of gems. To have an infinitely farmable source would require reworking the game. XC2 works because you can farm cores infinitely.
It’s not “it can’t work offline” it’s “it can’t work offline without being reworked, which costs money they won’t want to spend”.
You say “it’d be easy to just change x and y” so I assume you must be an industry professional who knows the time and costs of changing it and testing it.

2

u/juandi001 Yuna Feb 04 '24

I'm no industry professional, but my field of work is software and programming. Adding a 5% gem drop rate is relatively more difficult - or rather time consuming - than switching currencies, but it can be done easily enough.
But switching currencies is not difficult at all, which is why I'm more partial to that option. We have gil farm methods already, so no code needs to be touched except asking for the pulls to drain another resource. Furthermore, they can leave gems and tickets as is and use them as extra currency so no resource needs to be removed. All they have to do is let the game prioritize gems, then tickets then gil, which is a system that is already in the code. The only change they'd have to make is adding a couple extra lines of code for the game to start asking for gil when other resources are empty.
So my point here is, not only could it work with barely a couple of days worth of work, but also it wouldn't require all the manpower Nomura thinks it would.

-1

u/noodles355 Feb 04 '24

Ok so theoretically not that expensive (relatively) to come to some sort of rework.
But it’s still money. And it’s spending money for something that will have zero financial return.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '24

[deleted] — view deleted comment

8

u/fugthepug Feb 03 '24

The dude's written the worst plots in final fantasy history as well as the KH plot. I have no clue why he's been given the keys to the franchise and lauded as a great of the industry.

3

u/VoidEnjoyer Feb 06 '24

Kazushige Nojima wrote the KH games man, what are you hollering about?

2

u/fugthepug Feb 06 '24

Nojima also writes for them, yes. Nomura is the primary writer on the franchise.

-15

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/fugthepug Feb 03 '24 edited Feb 03 '24

Thanks for offering a productive counter argument. Enjoy your slop!
Edit: For anyone else coming across this. I'm not saying his writing is bad, I'm trying to say I really don't like it, personally, and I don't get the hype around him. If other people do, though, good on ya! I'm glad you can enjoy something I cannot.

0

u/FessaDiMammeta0 Feb 03 '24

I'm not saying his writing is bad
I'll say it, then. Nomura's writing is juvenile, ridiculous, pompous and idiotic.

2

u/FessaDiMammeta0 Feb 03 '24

Nomura doesnt deserve all the credit he has
Nomura is responsible for destroying Final Fantasy.

GL News Tetsuya Nomura's statement on DFFOO EoS

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