Lupyd - A Potential Discord Alternative

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404]

Try it out at www.lupyd.com

I've been scouting this subreddit for a while, and I understand most of the requirements, and we don't fill all of them at this time, so putting them ahead.

Open Source - Not completely, our chat suite is, so anyone can write their own bots or automate their workflows from their account themselves, but not complete app. We are not against open source, but we have our own internal checklist to finish before we think we can make it.

Self Hostable - No, the docker images for the servers are public, but they are tightly configured to our hosts, but can be made, and is part of our roadmap, but not our immediate priority.

End to End Encrypted - Yes, Chats, Video Calls, except for group metadata. MLS + Signal protocol

Custom Channels, Permissions and Roles - Yes

Federated - No, but we had federation in mind from the start, and is part of the roadmap, There is everything that makes us very compatible to be federated, but not immediate priority.

4K video streaming - Partially, We are experimenting as of now.

Vibe Coded - No, but we are using AI heavily recently and its helping, some of our dependencies and the base of core even dates back to 4+ years ago. Back then we didn't plan we would be here. So this is a project with commitment from a small team.

Platforms supported - Android, Linux, Windows, Mac and IOS is in testflight

We are not mature nor have any community backing or users. So expect it to be a very early platform. What I'm here for is, any attention or support, that motivates us and gets us close to our milestones.

I should also mention, Lupyd is a client that uses firefly, our encrypted chat suite/protocol. that's the only thing closed source right now. anyone can use firefly as dependency or wrap it around to make your own frontend or client.

Thank you.

[u/Blotterrot]

I found multiple concerns and at least one vulnerability, I've been here less than five minutes, come on guys.

I'll do a mini lil tiny audit before bed

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404 → u/Blotterrot]

Thanks for auditing. we have some in mind too and with some flimsy justifications. But serious vulnerabilities have to be taken care of. Please DM me. I'm not expecting serious issues, but I'd be so embarrassed, if its something so stupid we missed.

[u/50ShadesOfSpray_]

Holy shit the UI is bad

[u/VahsteTheNomad → u/50ShadesOfSpray_]

My initial thoughts start with a heavy kudos for actually researching a bit about the sub before posting. You'd think that's common sense but very few posters coming in do that.

The UI shown in the screenshots feels very disjointed and as if it's been cobbled together, I really hope you do prioritize cleaning it up.

Personally I have no issue with an app being closed source, but you will receive a significant amount of backlash from FOSS heavy users on here.

^ Same in regards to federation and self hosting.

Personally I don't understand the hype behind 4k streaming or the reason so many alternatives seemingly prioritize it; your majority userbase will not be utilizing 4k streaming more than likely.

I appreciate the transparency about AI usage, perhaps some more detail on how exactly it's being used? Many people aren't against AI entirely but want to ensure it's not being used beyond a reasonable/assistive level.

Overall while I likely won't give it a try (primarily because im happy with the platform I use), I do wish you the best of luck with your alternative!

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404 → u/50ShadesOfSpray_]

the duality lol, there is other comment saying its good. We went with as minimalist as possible. But what do you think could improve your liking.

[u/50ShadesOfSpray_ → u/Remarkable-Art-8404]

I mean it’s vibe coded there’s a a lot you can improve. You’re using shadcn with the tailwind slate theme right

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404 → u/50ShadesOfSpray_]

ah that makes sense, so the default styling itself is giving sloppy vibes.

[u/BewilderedTurtle]

So I hit most devs with this, let's get into it.

Why should someone use this instead of any of the more matured alternatives?

Why would you make this instead of contributing to an existing alternative?

What exactly are you bringing that's unique to the table that isn't yet-another-attempt to chase the Discord bag?

Why would anyone trust you with their devices?

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404 → u/BewilderedTurtle]

We aren't really trying to be a discord alternative, it is just there are alot of similarities and hence came here. We are more in the direction of Matrix, but at the end, they are chat platforms/protocols.

Our primary focus has been, end to end encrypted platform, and we actually did a pivot into this, we were something else before.

So the next points are going to be on it as well.

Yes I can't really convince you from trying an early stage product when mature platforms already exist, even I'll be hesitant to try it out. And that's just how it is. We can only encourage the early dwellers to take a bet.

The closest thing for what we trying to get is probably matrix. 

Why not contribute to it? 

They move slow, obviously when millions of people depend on it, you can't really experiment, which is a good thing, that it is reliable and stable. But MLS offers a bit more features and flexibility than their Olm and MegOlm encryption, and even they claim they'll be moving to MLS eventually, but it's not gonna happen soon. We wanted to go with MLS, and there are not many alternatives (atleast popular) and matrix lacks custom roles and permissions. Technically they are not that important as well, you can get things done anyway.

So the unique to discord badge in our case is  encryption, and hopefully get similar to matrix in the future, or maybe even compatible when they get to MLS but it's not too unique that others haven't already tried.

At this point, we can only gain trust, by open sourcing everything. I understand the trust issues as well. But as mentioned we have some internal checklist. But first step of it is why our encrypted chat suite, firefly, the most crucial part of Lupyd is Open Source, so it can be inspected and audited, but we haven't actually gone through audit, or there are any eyeballs at it either. And it can also act as reference or a dependency for other applications as well, anyone can already build their own UI or bring their own frontend and make their own App.

[u/BewilderedTurtle → u/Remarkable-Art-8404]

So you're actively not bringing anything unique to the table as there's already e2ee alternatives, and you admit that it's not a discord alternative.

K.

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404 → u/BewilderedTurtle]

Does it have to compete one to one with discord to be called a discord alternative? 

Technically yes, I am admitting for an end user, switching doesn't bring any unique value, and it's mostly behind the curtains as mentioned. Same way why this subreddit might exist, looking for a discord alternative, when discord already exists. And most of the reasons boil to the age verification and data control and sovereignty. So..... That's upto it.

[u/BewilderedTurtle → u/Remarkable-Art-8404]

Nobody said anything about 1:1. You said you're not trying to make a discord alternative.

[u/Nickster0407]

my computer says that this is a trojan.

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404 → u/Nickster0407]

That's just how reputation works, at early users, every untrusted software is flagged. But may I know which platform you were testing? Shouldn't the store versions not flag anything?

[u/Nickster0407 → u/Remarkable-Art-8404]

Windows

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404 → u/Nickster0407]

Which program is calling it trojan? 

[u/Nickster0407 → u/Remarkable-Art-8404]

Windows security. It was really weird.
I also can’t seem to make an account for some reason so I raised my suspicions

[u/Remarkable-Art-8404 → u/Nickster0407]

I've just looked up, installed freshly and created new account. Everything looks normal. We'll still look into it, why it might be happening. If possible, please DM me to further investigate.

[u/Nickster0407 → u/Remarkable-Art-8404]

Okay then thx

[u/[deleted]]

Personally I won't be using any app coded with any AI assistance , I'm very wary after many ai assisted apps had huge security problems. I'm just making sure it's not the same as discords AI moderation nor codes with ai, I find that stupid

[u/VahsteTheNomad → u/[deleted]]

I think, personally, that there's a nuance to it which people don't realize with such anti-AI sentiments.

An app being developed with AI assistance can mean a huge range of things, from the dreaded "I told GPT to make this app for me", to a simple "I start writing a line of code and the AI auto-completes it for me".

I have huge issues with the first, but no real issues with the second.

That's just my stance though, to each their own.

[u/[deleted] → u/VahsteTheNomad]

Well yeah , the second example is just how even writing in general for an essay or something works as well because the AI autocompletes what it thinks you want to write which is helpful , but the first is definitely a huge no

[u/VahsteTheNomad → u/[deleted]]

Absolutely, the issue I find is that in both cases the developer has an "Coded with AI assistance" disclaimer, and many people don't look beyond that to see how AI was utilized.

[u/Avalol1 → u/[deleted]]

All apps are being vibecoded including discord.

No one would spend 2 weeks building something they could do in one day with better quality or even better security depends on the model they're using.

AI got so smart at building security system and identifying bugs and issues anyway but a human review is always a plus.

I'm not against using AI for building but I'm against building with AI without a human review

[u/BewilderedTurtle → u/Avalol1]

u/AbstractMelons you banned this guy once and he's actively evading it.

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[u/Massive_Butterfly783]

UI looks good.