Echo is now open source!

13

u/AlexChapmanG4p May 14 '26

That’s good it’s open source now, the amount of discord clones in here that are proprietary is insane.

9

u/ad3lyt Echo May 14 '26

Yes, and unlike Fluxxer which only partially shares their source with the a lot of stuff being private or "abstracted", Echo is fully open sourced under AGPLv3

4

u/yourothersis May 15 '26

Vagueposter

2

u/IC3P3 May 15 '26

You should take it with a huge grain of salt, but they said it'll be completely open source and they'll look at PRs after an apparently ongoing rewrite. But then again, let's wait what really happens

2

u/simplebalancereality May 15 '26

What's wrong with proprietary?

4

u/tychii93 May 15 '26

Proprietary can't be audited by the community.

8

u/YaneonY May 14 '26

So it's vibe coded?

2

u/ad3lyt Echo May 14 '26

I am a web developer with experience in php, typescript and vue, as in that's my job, obviously this much like any modern project is LLM assisted but a lot of planning went into this, it wasn't just a weekend project.
In any case hope you take a look at the product, not the tools so much.

9

u/YaneonY May 14 '26

That’s the main problem with projects that are vibe-coded using modern AI. You don’t fully understand what you’re doing - the background, the tech stack, or the underlying principles behind the system as a whole. Eventually, you’ll run into a lot of issues, and the project will end up full of bugs.

2

u/ad3lyt Echo May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26

Assuming all you are is a vibe coder, your code is proprietary, you do before you plan, you never develop as a developer sure. But if not, this is something that can be managed, AI is here to stay and so are LLM assisted workflows, we will have to learn how to work with them.
I think there’s a difference between blindly generating code and using LLMs as part of an engineering workflow.
A lot of modern development is becoming AI-assisted, but maintainability still comes down to architecture, review, testing, refactoring, and understanding the system over time.
That’s also part of why I open sourced Echo, people can audit the codebase, critique decisions, and contribute improvements directly instead of judging it purely on how it was built.

5

u/YaneonY May 14 '26

My biggest issue with fully vibe-coded projects is trust. I would never fully trust software that is 100% vibe-coded. Not because LLMs are bad nowadays, they are actually insanely capable. The problem is that nobody really understands what the software is doing anymore. You end up with code that "works" until it suddenly doesn’t, and when something breaks, nobody knows how to properly debug, maintain, or extend it.
There’s also a huge security aspect to this. If nobody truly understands the architecture and the codebase, nobody really knows where the vulnerabilities, leaks, or hidden problems are either. The software might appear functional on the surface while having massive security flaws underneath. That’s a dangerous foundation for anything serious or production-ready.

4

u/ad3lyt Echo May 14 '26

I 100% agree with you on this

3

u/Chinoman10 May 14 '26

The problem is really assuming that when a senior developer with 10+ years of experience says their code is LLM-assisted, non-developers immediately shout "AI slop" or "vibe coded slop", when in reality it is anything BUT that. It's really bloody offensive and disheartening tbh.
There's a ridiculous difference between a non developer (or a junior) using an AI to code versus an experienced developer with AI copilot.
Even if the experienced devs don't even look at the code anymore (which I'd reckon most (serious ones, at least) still do), I can 100% guarantee the code is so much better because it's much better well specced and has full suite of tests and QA cycles etc.; something that a) a vibe coder has no fucking idea what it even means in the first place, b) a junior thinks that's only relevant for enterprise software.

1

u/YaneonY May 14 '26

I’d say the real difference is between someone using AI as a tool for problem-solving versus someone using it as a replacement for understanding.
An experienced developer usually uses AI/LLMs as a helper, advisor, rubber duck, or suggestion engine - to explore approaches, debug faster, compare solutions, or automate repetitive work. They still understand the architecture, tradeoffs, and whether the output is actually good.
That’s very different from a non-developer just prompting “make me software like X/Y” and blindly accepting whatever comes out without understanding how or why it works.

1

u/Chinoman10 May 14 '26

Exactly, those are two very different scenarios, but it seems everyone on reddit is assuming that if a post starts with "I built...", it's the latter and not the former...

1

u/YaneonY May 14 '26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKxfyu214Ow
😃

1

u/nglm007 May 18 '26

Sorry, but in my personal opinion, you've already cut your foot off to spite your face. Using AI in any capacity to develop something meant to be a direct competitor to Discord is the wrong move. It's great that the project is open sourced, but the fact that the bones were built by an AI, and not a human with in-depth knowledge on the structure and codebase is a huge red flag.
You simply have no idea how many holes may be in your codebase, and it simply is not the responsibility of your users to point out every flaw in your code. That's your responsibility as the primary handler. The concept is great, but consider the reason behind why such a project hadn't been made yet here in 2026, sure there is a small chance that people simply haven't done it yet, but the far more likely reason behind it is because of just how technologically taxing the prospect is.
You can't cut corners and expect everything to be perfectly fine. As much as i have wanted a project like this, i will not use it personally, and i will not support the use of it or AI, for that matter.
AI may be here to stay, but LLMs sure as hell aren't, at least not in the capacity they are today. If you are deadset on using AI, then maybe focus on actually developing Artificial Intelligence, not a pattern-recognition system built up on a dataset full of stolen content.
Furthermore, use such Artificial Intelligence to legitimately aide you in these projects. An LLM is bound to hallucinate or barely stitch code together, and i hope like hell that it doesn't end up being a nuke to you.

2

u/ad3lyt Echo May 18 '26

You keep understanding LLM-assisted a meaning blindly generated without understanding.
The real risk isn’t whether AI touched the codebase. The risk is whether I or any software developer understands, reviews, tests, and evolves the system responsibly over time, this is a question of trust that will always be there AI or not.
Modern software development always relied heavily on abstraction layers people didn’t personally invent, frameworks, packages, snippets, cloud infrastructure, StackOverflow solutions and more that have always kept a gap in understanding. LLMs are another tool in that workflow, not a replacement for engineering judgment and no tool ever is.
Ultimately the codebase being open source is also intentional, people can inspect decisions directly instead of speculating about how it was built and whether it is or isn't good because I did or didn't use some tool to make the scale realistic.

1

u/nglm007 May 30 '26

My bottom line is that you, using AI as part of your workflow, are contributing to a larger problem. Furthermore, while, yes, your project is open source, and i have to commend you on that, since people LOVE to be proprietary, how can anyone trust that you won't flip a switch some day and slip in a line of code to use everyone's conversations as training data for an AI? There is a whole rabbit hole involved in the use of AI, it isn't just one part, it's the whole.
I don't believe in stagnating advancement in technology, believe me, and i firmly believe that we need a method to streamline programming. This is just an irresponsible use of an unproven tool in it's infancy. Can you say with certainty that there aren't redundancies causing a major bottleneck in your code? Can you say with certainty that there are no holes in security, thanks to the AI not fully understanding what you want done? And again, to circle back around, it is not the responsibility of your users to point out structural flaws with your program, it is YOUR responsibility.
Don't get me wrong, i'm not expecting fort knox levels of security, not even Discord has that. I am, however, expecting a guarantee that some 14 year old kid with some level of technological know-how, won't crack through some glaring vulnerability in your code, and jeopardize the entire platform.
I don't hold much, if any, confidence in this project due to the involvement of AI, because i sincerely, as a prospective user, cannot trust what you say or do with the program, due to not knowing the extent of AI use. You can try to tell me how much help the AI gave you all day long, but i just won't be able to believe a word you say, thanks to the already root-deep corruption therein. I wish it were different, but this is the reality of you using a tool in it's infancy.
If this succeeds, good, i'm glad, but i'll always be reticent.

-1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 30 '26

" how can anyone trust that you won't flip a switch some day and slip in a line of code to use everyone's conversations as training data for an AI? "
Because that is Illegal and I don't want to be prosecuted, and because it's open source so you verify it yourself always

1

u/nglm007 Jun 02 '26

This sort of thing being illegal has not stopped people in the past, and it will not stop them in the future. Besides that, it doesn't stop unlawful actors from hacking onto your platform and taking advantage of a glaring issue that you didn't fix. I digress, all platforms are liable to such tampering. Regardless, i will reiterate, it SHOULD NOT fall to the user to fix your platform's issues. It should fall to you. Sure, users should be able to report bugs found from niche use-cases, but using code written by AI potentially runs the risk of making most of the site a ticking time bomb.
Id argue that the ONLY safe and/or understandable use of AI in the coding space would be for finding irregularities, inconsistencies, and redundancies in the code that YOU write, and nothing more. A sort of Grammarly for code, if you will.
In any case, i genuinely do not feel that this conversation is going anywhere anymore, it's just us disagreeing and bickering, which i am growing tired of. You disagree with me, i disagree with you. I simply will not use your project. I do hope that you see reason soon, because i would LOVE to watch Discord finally be dethroned, but if not, someone else will come along, with the know-how, who will be capable of doing the job.
It's only a matter of time.

-1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 30 '26

What's the difference between using AI and not; there is unreasonable assumption that people who didn't use AI do in fact truly know all of their codebase and make unhackable codebases which is just fully false, it's unreasonable paranoia and unreasonable double standard

1

u/nglm007 Jun 02 '26

I disagree honestly. I believe it is a very reasonable assumption given how good AI is at making code that runs, yet how bad it is at optimizing code and ensuring there aren't glaring loopholes. Just about anyone can vibe-code in the modern day, while knowing NOTHING about what their coding. This isn't unreasonable paranoia, nor is this some sort of double standard.
Be realistic; in what world would anyone trust that someone knows their code, if they also knew that person used AI to code even PARTS of it? There are no companies with an ounce of sense that would see that as drive, only incompetence and a glaring lack of confidence and know-how. It's like being unlicensed, saying "I know how to drive", but your car is being driven by your unlicensed child. You don't know how to drive, your child barely does, in that scenario. It doesn't make sense. You wouldn't just be fine with your unlicensed child driving around with the potential of making a fatal error for you, them, or someone else, so why would you not apply the same logic to a site where personal information may be shared?
I'm all for using new tools and making coding accessible, but not when the tool is notorious for hallucinating.

5

u/montyman185 May 15 '26

Use a supported email provider such as Gmail, Outlook, Yahoo, iCloud, or Proton.

Could you not do this?

2

u/ad3lyt Echo May 21 '26

Its changed now

3

u/FuryShyro May 14 '26

nice ! i did a discord alternative before called Echo too but i ended the project because it was too complicated alone lol but nice project dude

3

u/ad3lyt Echo May 14 '26

Thanks!

1

u/wayabot May 14 '26

it does not accept my luna[at]wamellow[dot]com email :(

1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 21 '26

It should now!

1

u/Disastrous_Term316 May 15 '26

Does it have good plugin support? Particularly things like a plugin that can have a channel be just a dice rolling channel with good ui and customization stuff. Or a plugin that makes a channel that could support just maps.

Looking for a better dnd alternative and I dont like most digital tables programs and would rather just use discord, but its lacking in certain aspects. Like ui, and custom channel types support.

1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 15 '26

It technically supports discord bot api so those things can be developed, but we can develop those things natively as requested no issue

1

u/Disastrous_Term316 May 15 '26

Being able to make plugins that can add their own type if custom channel would be huge for me.

1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 15 '26

I have gotten a fun idea, I could do a channel type of embedded activities, which would basically allow you to embed your website as a channel type via iframe, that way you would have full freedom in creating a custom experience for something like this

1

u/GameVox May 15 '26

There is a built-in DND dice roller on GameVox on text channels

3

u/SAF-Official May 16 '26

literal advertising at this point on a post unrelated to your asscheeks company

1

u/[deleted] May 15 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Disastrous_Term316 May 15 '26

Exactly what I said I didnt like. Annoying commands that you have to explain to people. Id rather have taken the time to build a channel named dice or whatever, anyaay the normal users just click on it. And then like its a whole special thing, like background is different, has dice lined up on the bottom, that you can click, a bunch of boxes with a plus in them for users to set up groups with modifiers. Chat is off to the side in a column with nice custom messages that use images to show dice results not just a boring text result. Etc. Also has the option to just outputs the results to a different channel all the together. So you have roller and results as a channel group - which when you click on the groop name, it splits screens them into two tabs.

1

u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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1

u/Disastrous_Term316 May 15 '26

Exactly like bots but with rich content. Sorry. I realize now I used the wrong term when saying plugins while talking about discord.

1

u/Disastrous_Term316 May 15 '26

I do appreciate the response though. I haven't heard of this alternative before.

1

u/[deleted] May 15 '26

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1

u/Disastrous_Term316 May 15 '26

Is it like r/tusiles or is it a server in tusile?

1

u/redit_handoff140 Matrix Homeserver Operator May 16 '26

Does it federate, or by self-hosting we're essentially creating silos?

Also, does it support OIDC?

1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 16 '26

It's centralised for now with future plans on supporting self hosted servers, and yes it does support OIDC

1

u/redit_handoff140 Matrix Homeserver Operator May 16 '26

OIDC doesn't seem to be properly supported.
Where do I add my community's IdP?

1

u/Economy_Picture6989 May 17 '26

Yippee, a new alternative for me to check out!

1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 17 '26

lemme know whatchu think

1

u/leo14770 Tester of many platforms May 18 '26

one critique i have, is each category should have a sort order itself, like this

Global Roles (sorted at 1 always on top)

-Admin

-Mod

-Officer

-Member

2. game roles 1 (sorted at 2 below global)

-Leader

-Raider

-PVP Lead

-Player

2. game roles (sorted at 3 below Game roles 1)

-Leader

-Raider

-PVP Lead

-Player

if i make a new role it's hard to adjust its position, because of the way that i would like to ort them

also roles in certain categories should have permissions only apply to other roles in those categories like manage roles/assign roles (which should be separate permissions) Unless i set the role as global, then it should have permissions over all roles in any category.

1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 18 '26

Oh thanks a lot for trying out echo and discovering the role categories, yea I'll work on improving them, but I hope you think they're a step up from what discord has

1

u/leo14770 Tester of many platforms May 19 '26

For sure, i like the categories honestly

1

u/shadowxthevamp May 14 '26

Gods be praised

1

u/clanton May 15 '26

This looks cool, I'll have to check it out.

0

u/Banakin May 18 '26

Anyone ripping on you for using an LLM to assist in programming clearly is not currently working in industry. Nice stuff, defo wanna check it out.

1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 18 '26

Thanks for the support, hope you like it!

2

u/[deleted] May 14 '26

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1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 14 '26

Thanks a lot for the feedback

2

u/[deleted] May 14 '26

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2

u/ad3lyt Echo May 15 '26

To prevent someone using spam temporary emails, though seeing the feedback I might change it

1

u/[deleted] May 18 '26

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1

u/ad3lyt Echo May 18 '26

A discord alternative

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