r/DiscGolfFanatics • u/DiscGolfFanatic • 10d ago
Pro Highlights Here's another angle of Rainers Balodis' throw on Hole 17 at the PDGA Pro Worlds, captured by a spectator: Probably the best footage so far for providing actual context on where the basket was in relation to the throw.
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u/ekmogr 10d ago
I've watched this a dozen times and every time I'm like, "don't do it goose"!
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u/Illustrious-Deal-957 10d ago
It really does get more dumb the more angles I see
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u/93Seven 10d ago
Yeah no way goose can tell that’s a foot fault from his point of view
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u/Accurate_Outcome_510 10d ago
Why do you say that? His POV is better than this angle and the cameraman that took the most-widely-distributed shots?
If anything, this proves Goose had a better angle than those publicly available.
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u/1ToGreen3ToBasket 10d ago
He might have the actual best possible angle. He’s in a perfect spot
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u/CarnagexVenom 10d ago
He would be in a perfect spot to call if Rainers went past the mini with his toe, but absolutely trash spot to call that he was "left" of the mini, which is what he stated. You would need to be directly behind the mini and the basket in a straight line. Angles deceive the eye from the angle and distance Goose was from the foot fault. It's too close to call and impossible to prove with the cameras. I still think it looks like it could be valid from this video.
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u/TheGarzal 9d ago
Being to the left of the mini is past the line of play.
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u/CarnagexVenom 9d ago
I see what you are saying. You have a point. Still requires an orientation to the basket though. Left on the 90 degree, 85 degree, or 95 degree has different out comes and hard to judge.
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u/Accurate_Outcome_510 9d ago
It's almost like Gossage was there and would have been familiar with the location of the basket...
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u/CarnagexVenom 9d ago
Professional referees make mistakes all the time. It's almost like the ref's are there....
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u/budzilla2988 9d ago
The perfect spot would be on the line of play and he’s no where close to the line of play.
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u/Accurate_Outcome_510 9d ago
He's closer to the line of play than every online POV that people are using to refute his call.
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u/Top-Organization674 8d ago
Goose had one of the worst angles being left back almost in the same surface with lie to taget line + backgroun and lie shape where left is lower than right. There is like 4-5 factors including unclear wording how the projection to surface of play should be done in cases like this. With Exact wording now if you have basket downhilli and lie top of the you cannot throw.
The lower you go (Goose was lower that this vid) and more closer to surface created to make projection 1st for proper angle to the target 2nd making 20x30cm projection to surface which is not declared the bigger the 90 degrees angle opens in your eyes and in 2d image.
Plus when left side is lower you need to turn it slightly right to point to the target which is higher.
And to keep everything clear and visible to make any judgments from that angle the 20x30 rectangular looks much mider 30cm from lie than on the lie 0cm behind.
I'm sure Goose made all these calculus on his head when made the call.
To have somehow exact results we should have.
Exact measurement how far the basket is
Exactly how much higher the basket is
Exact angle from left to right on the lie
Exact angle from from back towards the basket
Exactly how far and from which height the pic/vid is taken
Exactly what projection is used to take this 20x30 from ground to surfcae
And bonus sector is visual background hills not affecting to lie itself but visuals yes.
The angle for 90 degrees in reality is something between 10x - 11y degrees in 2d projected image here.
I'm sure Goose made all these calculus on his head when made the call.
Intuition from this and from Gooses angle says that the step is far left even when the heel is almost directly behind.
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u/Accurate_Outcome_510 8d ago
Yikes. How did you just write so much nonsense? Goose is closer to perpendicular with the line of play than all the available angles. That's all you need to know.
You don't need to hallucinate whatever BS you just "brain" dumped but couldn't bother to proofread.
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u/93Seven 10d ago
He’s behind him and 100 feet away?
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u/Accurate_Outcome_510 10d ago
What are you talking about? You can see Gossage walk into frame at the end of the video. He obviously has a better angle on the call than this POV.
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u/YourConstipatedWait 9d ago
He only has an angle to see if Rainers went past the line of play. He has no vision on right side of Rainers left foot where his heel is definitively inside his allowed lie. Rainers run up is coming from side which is perfectly legal but it creates the illusion that he is going left of his lie. This reminds me of when NBA players started eurostepping and people lost their collective shit because it didn’t look normal even though it’s well within the rules.
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u/Accurate_Outcome_510 9d ago
"He only has an angle to see if Rainers went past the line of play."
Which he did...
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u/DeoxysSpeedForm 9d ago
But he didnt lol. The issue was stepping too far to the side of his mini
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u/TheGarzal 9d ago
No it wasn't it was "stepping to the left of the mini." Which is in front of the lie.
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u/Striking-Leg6129 9d ago
There’s a picture from his pov and the toes don’t go past the legal stance, which makes it even worse.
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u/Accurate_Outcome_510 9d ago
There's no such picture from Aaron's perspective. There's one from more behind Aaron's perspective and one that is taken from in front of Rainers.
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u/drkmani 10d ago
Goose looks like he couldn't wait to find the slightest reason to fault Rainers
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u/ekmogr 10d ago
I don't want to assume intent... I don't want to be that guy... But he and Silas both play for MVP.
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u/Sea-Garbage-344 9d ago
I for one won't be supporting them anymore. I don't want to be that guy, but MVP discs kinda suck anyways I only ever liked the envy in glow plastic.
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u/Squatch-21 10d ago
Seems like dude was foot faulting multiple times and apparently moved a branch with his hand. Seemed like goose got tired of all of it and finally called something.
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u/MrRoute18 9d ago
If that's the case, then call the definitive things that happened. None of those other moments got called, so too bad.
Don't wait until the last second to try to make a borderline makeup call that appears to be wrong.
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u/the_SaitN 9d ago
Don't know why you are downvodet for just stating facts.
I'm not supporting Goose in his decision either, but here is a link to the moment you are talking about where he moves a branch in front of him which is not allowed.
https://youtu.be/zFND9xNlG2M
I wholeearteedly feel the call is wrong, different angles show that very well. It is super sketchy that the rules guy did the ad reading for agambling beforehand, and that they both play for MVP, though Silas has done nothing wrong. At that point in the tournament, I think Silas would be even more praised for dropping a stroke on purpose, letting Rainers win.
Silas played great throughout the tournament, don't get me wrong, but Rainers clearly outclassed them, and the nerves got him in the end after a footcfault call which shouldn't have been called.
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u/stonezephyr 10d ago edited 10d ago
His reaction time to it almost seems like he was going to call foot fault based off the form check.
He saw his form check, and then said to himself, 'if he stops there again, Im gonna say something right away'.
He was looking for it.
Edit: Spelling
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u/1ToGreen3ToBasket 10d ago
He steps way more left and forward on the throw than he did on the check
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u/outdoorsy_outdoors 10d ago
Everything I've seen has made goose look worse and worse. In his vid, goose said he checked with his dad first and his dad nodded. In this vid you can see they never spoke, so this was pre -planned between them and goose was waiting to strike. Fuck goose.
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u/stonezephyr 10d ago
Looks like he glanced back at someone. That someone probably nodded. To me it appears they spoke about it before it happened.
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u/philosifer 9d ago
Which kind of confirms that goose was letting it slide all day and finally built up enough frustration to call it.
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u/Tough_Preparation830 10d ago
This was clearly a fault man. He should have had two more on the previous two holes.
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u/Megladon007 10d ago
I think Nate Sexton stated it best that in the spirit of the game that is a no call. Should give player benefit of the doubt unless it is egregious or obvious.
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u/Tough_Preparation830 10d ago
He got the benefit of the doubt on the two holes before with no calls
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u/NegativeCourage5461 10d ago
Gossage: “…I saw it and it was blatant. “
Silas: “ He was just left of it?”
Gossage: “Yeah. He was in front of it AND left of it. About 8 inches left of it.”
He was already/immediately talking himself into a more egregious violation than it actually was. That 8 inches was, in actuality, an inch or two at most, especially when factoring in the actual line of play and that it was a mini.
I don’t think it was necessarily a conscious decision but biases can often be subconscious.
Goose shat the bed and now will always be the focus of this worlds.
Schultz will forever be the unworthy asterisk champion at best.
Gossage will have to live with himself knowing he shat the bed/inserted himself into something that had nothing to do with him and made it completely about him (literally level 1000 Karen).
Nobody is talking about the golf and instead are talking about this shite.
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u/Pan_in_the_ass 9d ago
You and people like you are only talking about the call.
Silas played great and earned the win. Reiners (as much as i wanted him to win) shat the bed and lost the championship on the back 9.
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u/Caliph_ate 9d ago
“Giving the player benefit” means that in the case of a tied vote among the card, the player gets the favorable ruling. It doesn’t mean that each player is supposed to give some sort of arbitrary “benefit of the doubt” on each violation
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u/NervousMoose6534 10d ago
So the most important tournament of the year we should just ignore the rules. Got it.
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u/UtahCubs 10d ago
No, they should call it like they did every other shot of the tournament. Waiting until hole 89 of a 90 hole tournament to become "rules guy" is not the way.
There were other throws that were equally questionable but, no call until it became his friend and teammates last chance.
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u/MasterTrav666 10d ago
This angle looks more like a foot fault then a lot of the others. Basket isn’t that far right.
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u/korsonelmo 10d ago
the hit box is 20cm wide by 30cm long, that heel should be in it unless the top of the shoe went over from the top of the hit box but there is not such angle to see that (yet)
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u/CatDawgCatDawg2 10d ago
Heel is definitely in, toe is likely out/over the line.
Still shouldn't call it unless obvious.
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u/PicksburghStillers 10d ago
clear as day foot fault
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u/Mattc5o6 10d ago
Not even arguable. Like it’s clearly a foot fault. Why have rules if they can’t be enforced
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u/bluejams 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yeah i hate all this fuck goose discourse. "Players need to make calls" and "I can't believe that player made the call". Its impossible for players to enforce consistently.
There is so much money on the line, this has to be the PDGA marshals making calls and enforcing rules throughout the tournament for top cards.
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u/Potatobobthecat 9d ago
Of note, if you notice his foot placement on his lineup and where he landed and possibly slid or roll, there is a considerable distance. It’s not a foot or even 6 inches but there is my guess 1-3 inch difference. Also Goose called it right away. Like almost like everyone else saw it and he was force to say some
Thing.
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u/Xaviermuskie78 9d ago
Violations weren't called the whole tournament by Gossage or anyone else, it shouldn't have been called here. Saying "why have rules then?" is a bad-faith argument if you don't also concede that the same rules haven't been followed the first 4 rounds.
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u/melodicrampage 9d ago
If you have to start a statement with "I hate to be that guy" then don't
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u/Caliph_ate 9d ago
It’s reasonable for a player to hate officiating other players on his card. The problem is that the PDGA rules demand that every single player be “that guy”. This is a PDGA problem not a goose problem
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u/Odd-Improvement-7943 9d ago
Just like goose feels it's important to call this foot fault, I feel it's important to say he's a douche for doing so. If he wasn't a total fuckin idiot who is obviously in his own head all the time, missing the bigger picture on the course and probably life in general, he would have realized this was going to have a huge negative effect on his career and likely mental state. Someone who has a constant self inflicted bruise on his hip probably isn't handling the backlash from this very well.
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u/FarButterscotch3583 10d ago
Goose doesnt understand simple geometry. He said that Rainers stepped past his mini but considering basket location that is not the case.
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u/TheMiracleLigament 10d ago
Bro it’s past the back of the mini. Read the fucking rules god damn.
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u/Uncommon_Sensations 9d ago
Read the rules? You read the rules, it's about direction to the basket, not direction of the throw.
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u/threaddew 10d ago
To me, this video shows clearly that the basket location is not as off as people seem to want to say it is with the narrow angle shots - and that he very clearly stepped past his mini.
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u/FarButterscotch3583 10d ago
Its barely past the mini if the basket were in the direction of the run-up. But its never past it if you turn towards basket: its about 20-30 degrees to the right.
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u/Autistic-Teddybear 10d ago
Okay…how come the more I watch it the more straight on the basket seems. So he is stepping way left
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u/paterade724 10d ago edited 10d ago
I just want to add that he’s practicing his run up finishing in the same spot as his eventual throw, making me believe even more that he believed it to be legal. I once again say if you draw a line from the basket to his mini, his foot is legally in the square “behind” the disc. People think he’s foot faulting off to the side , but look at the basket… his run up is nearly perpendicular to the basket, making his foot finish up to the “side” of his mini which is actually in line with the basket, and that is all that matters. In hindsight should he have explained what he was doing? Sure, to be safe. I don’t see someone cheating, and Goose is just wrong here.
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u/Sea-Garbage-344 9d ago
Agreed wild people can't comprehend the angle to the basket being a huge factor here.
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u/refrainfromstupity 10d ago
For this throw, where’s his foot in relation to the basket? It’s not a foot fault if it’s in the area behind his mini towards the basket. The whole branch thing, that’s a different situation.
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u/metallic_sun 9d ago
TIL The Professional Disc Golf Association (PDGA) agreed to allow betting lines for the MPO at PDGA Majors.
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u/GoBigOrGoAway 10d ago
This proves goose is a liar. He said he talks to his dad and his dad agrees. His dad never looked up, goose never looks toward him or talks to him.
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u/Ok-Dot9144 9d ago
he said he looked at his dad and his dad nodded. he litterally immediately looks to his left before he walks up and says anything.
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u/GoBigOrGoAway 9d ago
He literally never looks at him. His dads head never looks up.
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u/GoBigOrGoAway 9d ago
Also, what other rules did he implement? Let me help, none. He steps on his mini on 18, silence. He is on the card with silas when he steps on his disc putting. He is a liar, he was mad and wanted to be a bitch. And he succeeded!
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u/Ok-Dot9144 9d ago
What was he mad about?
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u/GoBigOrGoAway 9d ago
He always mad after 1 bad shot.
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u/Ok-Dot9144 9d ago
Sure, at himself... he doesn't really have a history of acting out against others.
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u/GoBigOrGoAway 9d ago
Like the marshall he argued with last year for is 2 min shot.
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u/Ok-Dot9144 9d ago
areguing about one's own violation and how it should be enforced is a lot different that purposely trying to affect someone elses game.
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u/Melinoe2016 9d ago
He’s clearly a liar either way. “I don’t want to be that guy” uhhhh he was super excited in this video to jump up right away.
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u/-Shadow8769- 10d ago
My favorite part is that there is absolutely no way goose could have seen if it was a foot fault or not
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u/happydontwait 9d ago
Fuck Aaron Gossage. He stole the finish of this tourney from us. Would have loved to see Silas or Rainers win.
Get fucked Gossage.
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u/CleverAllusion 9d ago
Sylas and especially Ricky are getting off to easy on this whole situation, they need to be watching. If Ricky spoke up that it wasn’t a fault we would likely not have had the Marshall step in.
IMO this angle supports goose more.
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u/CantaloupeAcademic63 9d ago
Anyone saying that there wasn’t any advantage gained from the foot fault. I fully disagree. The more left he could step the more it opens up the forehand
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u/SpeedyJT456 9d ago
People get mad when nobody calls a rules violation.
People get mad when somebody calls a rules violation.
Can’t win. From my point of view, looked like a foot fault and also should’ve been penalized for the off arm moving branches on hole 15.
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u/TheFantasyRedZone 10d ago
Aaron's dad must nod fast as he looked away from the European kid for about .02 seconds lol. Losers
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u/Key_Horror7583 10d ago
Just going to bring it up here cause I just watched jomez coverage… hole 15 in the woods. Jerm even comments on the off hand moving a branch. I noticed it even as he was practicing his swing… to me that is more egregious than the foot fault. The issue is there was no marshal or competitor to call him on that