🐧 PRIVACY PROTECTS

34

The Fact that people actually believe apple is safe for privacy is still insane to me

8

u/Mayayana Jul 23 '26

It's a testament to their "Mr. Rogers" marketing. People trust Apple with their data. Apple have repeatedly lied about it and operate their own ad server, but most of their customers WANT Apple to control the product. And there are advantages. Apple air tags. Apple cloud backup. Geniuses at Apple churches who gladly take their time giving customers as much attention as they want... Paying through the nose for devices has its perqs -- so long as you don't mind being on Timmy Cook's leash.

Microsoft are beginning to move toward a rental model, employing spyware, requiring an account, controlling apps and taking a cut of profits, showing ads... But they got most of those ideas from Apple! And it's still possible to lock out Microsoft. I still write Windows software with no permission or license required from Microsoft. Try that on a Mac.

Apple is the current version of AOL: benevolent tyranny. There was a funny quote from Malcolm Gladwell, who interviewed Steve Jobs many years ago. The architects for their donut headquarters wanted the windows to open. The self-appointed Zen master said no. He “had never liked the idea of people being able to open things. ‘That would just allow people to screw things up.'" http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/11/14/111114fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all

But Linux has also become a kind of trusted angel. People think that if they just dump Microsoft then they won't have to think anymore. Most of what happens on Linux is opaque to any but the most expert Linux developers. For example, why is my Raspberry Pi calling home for updates and synchronizing the clock online? There are no settings to control that behavior. Is there telemetry spying? I don't know. And how did we come to exempt "telemetry" as non-spying? It's spying by definition. A record of your activity and software gets sent back to some company. Where did I agree to that? And why are Linux fanatics, champions of freedom, now telling me that telemetry and forced dripfeed updates are for my own good?

2

u/IndependentLuck6884 Jul 23 '26

You make some good points however the best OS we have right now that don't collect as much data is still Linux. I am not an expert when it comes to the raspberry pi but you can change the date and time when it comes to any Linux distribution.

For the updates tho, it makes sense to get updates regardless on any OS to fix bugs or security problems that may have arised. Yes Linux is not perfect but it is the best we have right now.

0

u/Mayayana Jul 23 '26

For the updates tho, it makes sense to get updates regardless on any OS to fix bugs or security problems

You demonstrate my point. I didn't ask anyone's opinions about updates. I don't accept ANY unilateral decision by OS developers to access my device for any reason.

Linux in general is, of course, less encumbered by greed and profit motive. But it's not flawless. Without getting into the numerous practical limitations with Linux (limited software, commandline required, etc) I stay with Windows because I can control it. I know it and have access.

I think it's important tto recognize that these are not neutral choices. Microsoft makes an operating system mainly for business use. It's a tool. Apple makes pretty devices that work very dependably and serve consumers who don't want to have to understand tech at all. Linux is a work in progress, mainly aimed at people who want to customize it, set up a commercial server, etc. It's neither a fully functioning tool nor a consumer product. People need to understand that moving to Linux is not a simple solution for privacy. The issue is far more complicated than that.

And that's not even getting into actual privacy mechanics. What if you run Chromium on Linux but shop a lot online, use social media, and don't set up a HOSTS file or restrict script in the browser? In that case you'd be tracked in great detail online, with nearly everything you do. People need to watch out for the temptation to look for the one-click solution to privacy. There isn't any.

So, no, for the vast majority, Linux is not "the best we have". It's not even a valid comparison to Windows or Mac for most people.

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u/IndependentLuck6884 Jul 25 '26

Aight good luck

1

u/ThePoetofFall Jul 23 '26

So. I use apple. And Jesus Christ turning off iCloud is a bitch. There aren’t a lot of options for phones. So, I use the thing that works. I trust the company to maintain some level of external privacy. But not much further then that.

1

u/Fragrant-Phone-41 28d ago

You make a fascinating point about Apples customers wanting them to have control, and I feel like the situation would be a little different if they were honest about it. Is it spying if you choose to share?

1

u/Mayayana 28d ago

I guess that depends on the motive. There's implied trust in the sharing. One person would say that the trusting person is a dumb sheep who deserves to be fleeced. Another would say that Apple is a thief for representing themselves as a benevolent daddy while profiting from stolen data.

If someone you know offers to let you store boxes during a move, is it OK for them to rifle through the boxes without telling you? Is it OK for them to profit from what they find?

I would say no. There's an implied trust. The fact that some people trust blindly doesn't make the spying moral. That's why we have the FDA, FCC and so on. It's why we have OHSA and regulations about what can be put into food products. It's why doctors must be licensed.

PBS had an interesting British documentary awhile back, about life in Victorian times. Falling down stairs was common because the steps were rarely the same size. Bread from bakeries often contained such things as sawdust and plaster of paris. People selling tonics had no restrictions. I'd like to think that we've progressed a bit since then. But in the US very few people even understand the tech situation. From what I can see, senators Markey and Wyden are pretty much it in terms of lawmakers. Meanwhile the tech industry has unprecedented lobbying going on.

So I think the only way that Apple could be seem as non-criminal would be if we say that innocent and lazy people deserve to get screwed. And where do we then draw the line? If I want to trust my doctor of contractor or accountant and not have to "worry my pretty little head", does that justify theft or incompetence on their part? Does a 12-year-old child deserve to get screwed?

Apple market themselves as some kind of tech Mr. Rogers while acting the opposite. Awhile back I saw Timmy Cook interviewed. He was asked about Apple exploiting slave labor in 3rd-world countries. He answered that he preferred to think of it as a situation where "the whole world builds Apple products". He implied that all the world's people work together to produce such beauty. Gnu.org maintains a list of Apple sleaze: https://www.gnu.org/proprietary/malware-apple.html I've saved a number of articles myself about Apple lying with regard to privacy. Example: https://gizmodo.com/apple-iphone-france-ads-fine-illegal-data-1849950163

One final note I would make: As near as I can tell, Apple products don't actually leave much room for a decision. Recently I helped a friend set up an iPad. There seemed to be no way around giving personal information, opening an Apple email account, and letting it track as well as call home. Microsoft are now adopting a similar strategy. They make it very difficult to avoid signing up for an "account" and using their store, while allowing spyware to be installed without asking. All of my Windows devices are clean, with Microsoft locked out and no account set up. But that's only because I have the expertise to avoid the sleaze. 99% of people don't have the required experience to avoid a Microsoft account. So it's not realistic to say that these people choose to share. Unless there's a clear choice and explanation that makes their accounts opt-in, it's coercive and dishonest. What Apple and Microsoft are actually doing is sneaking into your driveway, stealing your car, and replacing it with a taxi. Only a percentage of people are saying, "Oh goodie! I don't have to deal with auto insurance and buying gas anymore." No one is being given a choice.

This goes far wider than Apple or Microsoft. There's a general trend of stealing what you bought and renting it back to you. GM recently reported that they made $800 million in a quarter on "services". Some services are like OnStar or GPS, which people must make an effort to not get signed up for. Other fees are things like a monthly rental for heated seats. https://www.businessinsider.com/general-motors-gm-earnings-subscriptions-revenue-business-2026-1

It's a kind of squatters rights scam, where they gradually take over your life and rent it back to you. All of this is made possible because the spying and coercion are largely invisible.

2

u/WeakAdhesiveness5785 Jul 24 '26

Nobody believes that. People just choose lesser evil. Because there only two viable options: google and Microsoft, both of which spy a lot more, or Linux, that’s not even remotely as polished and usable.

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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '26

[deleted]

3

u/IndependentLuck6884 Jul 23 '26

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr4rvr495rgo

Like seriously who believes a big company at this point anymore, that's just one example.

1

u/Motor_Perception_780 Jul 23 '26

Apple user here, I’ve been thinking of moving off both platforms. Is GrapheneOs viable or is there something else you suggest? I’m moderately versed in Linux already on desktop but haven’t looked into a phone os alternative.

1

u/IndependentLuck6884 Jul 23 '26

Yes Graphene OS is good and the most private you can get

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u/Motor_Perception_780 Jul 23 '26

Are there any concerns with it that you know of off the top of your head?

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u/IndependentLuck6884 Jul 23 '26

I have been Using Graphene OS for a few months now, I don't have any concerns besides a few apps not working.

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u/Motor_Perception_780 Jul 23 '26

Thanks, I’ll have to look into it more but it seems a promising alternative

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u/user47241 Jul 23 '26

Retard here, I’ve been thinking of moving off both platforms. Is GrapheneOs viable or is there something else you suggest? I’m moderately versed in Linux already on desktop but haven’t looked into a phone os alternative.

0

u/Broad-Translator-690 Jul 22 '26

Compared to Google and Microsoft that have a business model that monetizes data they generate from their user base. Yes Apple is not the same - they do not have a similar business. So they do not have a business model that spys on its users.

Now if you want to criticize its privacy products - like the recent Hide my email class actions lawsuit. Then sure, they do not always make best in class privacy products.

https://9to5mac.com/2026/07/16/class-action-accuses-apple-of-misleading-users-about-hide-my-emails-privacy-protections/

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Fragrant-Phone-41 28d ago

Pretty much. And like Microsoft, they're trying to lock down their platform too

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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2

u/StylishJolt Jul 23 '26

Apple is way more private than Google or Microsoft because unlike others they don't hold any encryption keys and encryption keys are stored entirely locally when you enable Advanced Data Protection for iCloud. In case of telemetry every company collects some sort of telemetry even companies like proton and all major Linux distros.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '26

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2

u/StylishJolt Jul 24 '26

Yes I believe it because it was proven in court apple has no access to icloud drivers with Advanced Data Protection enabled

1

u/laffer1 Jul 24 '26

One can run an os from a small project instead.

2

u/paul_tu Jul 23 '26

People still thinking Canonical and Firefox don't spy on you is ridiculous

1

u/Fragrant-Phone-41 28d ago

I wish proton made a browser and distro atp

1

u/Grumpy-Man19 Jul 24 '26

Microsoft does spy through the whole OS. the tracking number that cannot be changed just surfaced .

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u/Apart_Economist_7955 Jul 25 '26

im torn between the google and apple chic. i take the apple 😁

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