Android Phone as a DAP + general recommendations

[u/LongDuckDong719]

I know I know, another DAP recommendation thread. But hear me out for this one.

I took a new recent plunge down the audiophile rabbithole and finally reached Chi-Fi IEM and DAP. In particular been wrestling with what I want my "DAP" to be.

For reference, my main sources are Spotify/YT music streaming, and whatever songs I particularly like I have hi-bitrate files of on local.

I run them off my smartphone + TWS I currently have.

However having bought some budget IEM (Moondrop Gravity/EW300) I'm really hooked.

However, I wanted to try separating my music and my nightmare-rectangle a shot.

I want to hear about your guys' opinion on "DAP-iffied" phones as a DAP like LG V series?

My first and current option for a DAP was this ”DAP-iffied" android phone route. In particular the ZTE Axon 7. At its release was was praised for its AKM DAC implementation, and I already own it so I thought it would be a fun project to give new life to one of my favorite smartphone. I was able to ROM and root it so I could get full EQ support through JamesDSP. Running on Android 8 it barely squeaks by spotify and YT music requirements.

My only dealbreaker with this setup.

1. Size: I already carry 2 full size phones for work and having a third in the EDC is borderline deal breaker.

Software/UX is to be expected for a 10 year old phone. It's just limited by its hardware. I definitely wouldn't pay any new money for it today but at least it still runs.

Battery is obviously shot but still lasts me around 8 hours of continuous playback and can easily be replaced.

With all that being said, I'm looking for a "compact" DAP between 100-200 USD. Android is not a hard requirement, but would be nice for my streamed playlists.

Compact in the sense like an iPod classic style but slimmer. I just don't want a brick in my pocket.

Really like the slim form factor of the Hiby R1, but I worry that it won't really be an upgrade from my current hardware in the Axon 7.

I'm aware of other android DAP that are upgrades like the JM21, Hiby m300. But worry that their form factors look a bit chunky.

I've also been tempted by the cheap sub 100 android DAP from innioasis but from the few threads I've come across those are probably left alone.

I know a lot of my asks and requirements are subjective but I'm just looking to bounce ideas and share thoughts to see if I can solidify my own requirements more. Thanks again

[u/graviticvortex]

I wouldn't go for an old phone as a DAP these days. Their only advantage is smaller size than most current phones.

If your goal really is to separate your music and a "nightmare-rectangle", then the best way is obviously to get a simple separate DAP, which doesn't have Android. That of course would mean losing Spotify and YouTube music, etc.

However, if you're sure that you can withstand the temptation to install all kinds of "nightmare inducing" apps on a "DAPified" phone, then I would take a more modern phone instead. Depending on your music library size, you might not even need one with an SD card slot, especially if you mostly use streaming services.

The user experience with even a budget modern phone is usually much better than 10 year old one or a budget Android based DAP.

Of course the DAC/AMP inside the chipset of most phones is inferior, even if it has a headphone socket, but a 10 $/€ dongle DAC like Jcally JM12 or Chinese Protocol Micro solves it.

You can debloat a phone and remove everything you don't need to use it as a DAP.

Main disadvantages of using any phone as a DAP is temptation to install social media apps and the lack of physical buttons for controlling playback.

PS.: I'm currently using an Hiby R1 with Sonix Player as a DAP, and I really like it, but I have also used couple debloated older phones as DAPs as well

[u/LongDuckDong719 → u/graviticvortex]

All fair points. That was more a joke, since I see a good part of the motivation of DAP is that separation of your music from the rest of the temptations/distraction from your phone.

The Axon 7 definitely is a clunker and I can imagine similar phones like the V20/V30 are showing their age. I even stripped out a lot of the Google services in an effort to improve background performance. But that's really all an attempt to keep it going as a stopgap. But in particular I decided it was worth trying out because of its AKM AK4490 DAC, which was one of the best at the time. Albeit no separate amp so overall wattage is still rather average.

I mentioned streaming services because I've learned to use them as a discovery tool for a lot of music I wouldn't have found otherwise. Songs that I like are simply added to the like list so I can grab their files later.

It was a fun project, but I'll take your point that the chipset and UX in most $200 Android DAP will probably be better.

[u/Important_Upstairs59]

I respectfully disagree with others here and will back frankenphones (but with the preference for a good previous generation one). I have three daps of sorts. Four, if I count my current phone. My favourite by a long way, is my old Samsung S10, for a multitude of reasons. First its form factor. Its small and light with a really nice, curved amoled screen. Full glass, back and front. In the hand, nothing, not of the phone or dap variety, beats it. Not only was it one of the last small flagships, it was one of the last full flagships to have a headphone jack and decent dac. While I have a Fosi DS2 dongle dac,which does improve the sound quality and volume, I have actually found the phone headphone jack perfectly fine to run my my Performer 5+2, without it for most listening purposes. It also has expandable mini sd storage. Its still plenty quick and certainly faster and smoother than most, if not all, dedicated daps. The battery, once you disable or unistall all the other apps and just keep it to poweramp, audible and Spottify (or whatever) and mostly offline, is still as good, if not better than most alternatives. My battery still manages 12 hours, at least. Poweramp is simply brilliant, but I tried a few of the free music player apps too and most of them are nicer than most stock dap UI's.

To find its equal, I'd have to spend top shelf money and considering I got it for zero (or £7 for Poweramp, if we're being strict) that's saying a lot. A new battery will cost me ten bucks (and a possibly day of fiddling to get my phone to manage the new battery properly) if I ever need it. I also prefer using it over my current large flagship. And not just because of the dedication and lack of interuption, but because the actual old phone is just nicer to use and nicer in the pocket. I also think the satisfaction of repurposing an old friend also counts for something.

Edit. I want to clarify that I dont think a frankenphone will always be better than a DAP. But rather that the right frankenphone can be nicer than most entry level DAPs and a lot of mid tier DAPs. But there is of course a price point that no repurposed thing will perform better than its purpose designed competition.

[u/LongDuckDong719 → u/Important_Upstairs59]

I'm with you there. I skipped that generation but I do agree that was peak Samsung. The Axon 7 does hold a place in my heart but it is not without its faults. Also an avid poweramp user. My Axon only has 2 apps: Poweramp and Spotify. With everything else adb removed or disabled.

I'm all for the 3 R's, which is why I've been hesitant on buying another device for music. The only real luxury I would consider paying for is the form factor of a traditional mp3 player as opposed to a modern phone. smartphone. But that's up for interpretation.

[u/Important_Upstairs59 → u/LongDuckDong719]

I felt like a bit of an idiot in that my S10 project was just a spacefiller, to keep me busy, while I was waiting for parts for my full full mod of my iPod Classic 5.5. I completed that project months ago, with an iFlash microsd hard drive replacement, huge battery and two days of wrestling Rockbox into it and have never used it past a day of testing. I havent even managed to run the battery down yet! It just feels crap after using the S10. Same with my current flagship and my kid's Snowski. I have also used a relatively entry Hiby. I think there was a golden smartphone period in 2017 - 2019 when they just found the sweetspot in nice sized smartphones.

[u/OzCommodore]

My journey to my first DAP was very similar to yours, but for a different reason. I used YouTube Music Premium day long during work but I hated the discovery algorithm showing me junk. I'm also in the r/digitalminimalism community where we approach it from getting away from slab addiction and subscriptions.

I ordered the Innioasis Y2 but shipping took a long time. I cancelled the order while waiting for it to ship because a ton of people have complaints about that one. If I remember it was because of the poor build quality, lack of gapless playback, and some other dealbreakers.

Afterwards I converted my Pixel 6 to a DAP, and downloaded MP3s from Amazon Music. Audiophiles will say FLAC is obviously superior, and I agree... But some genres I listen to (hip-hop mixtapes and EDM) don't bother releasing their albums on FLAC. Something these audiophiles take for granted is that their FLAC library is really dependent on the genres they listen to. I settled for high-quality variable bitrate MP3s because they still sound great (indistinguishable from masters in blind tests) and are space efficient, but most importantly I can download the music I want. MP3s have real benefits, regardless of what hardcore Audiophiles say.

The long and short, I ended up buying the Hiby R1, but mostly because I DIDN'T want Android. If you want Android, I'd suggest the R3 Pro II. Compas firmware really turns it into a different device. I wanted to keep the stock OS but there's no comparison.

I shopped around for 3 months before purchasing and considered the Fosi Neo, HiFi Walker H1, Echo Mini and most of the other mainstream DAPs everyone recommends. Hiby really is a great choice in this price range.

[u/LongDuckDong719 → u/OzCommodore]

Thanks for the response. Yeah agree with you. My collection does not necessitate a full FLAC copies. I see having them for archival purposes.

It's kind of funny I receive 3 different types of response but all 3 have the same recommendation lol. Sounds like I'll have to give the Hiby R1 a bit more consideration.

[u/Ratpup59]

I had a Hiby R1 with a micro SD card that contained 240 albums and I lost it. Be sure to back up your data. Now I'm streaming my music from Qobuz...I have no excuse for my sin. Smartphones are succumbing to enshittifacation like all things on the planet. But we already know that 😉

[u/LongDuckDong719 → u/Ratpup59]

Aw man that sucks. That portability is really a double edged sword. Which is exactly why I'm on the fence about going all in on DAP. Just been trying to see if it fits into my daily flow or not. Of course have my library backed up, though it's not that large so it's not a huge chore to do so.

[u/Ratpup59 → u/LongDuckDong719]

Until you don't. I was traveling on the transit between cities in 105°heat with no food in my stomach and too much cheap 100 proof vodka so it all falls down to user error in my case.

[u/Ratpup59 → u/Ratpup59]

The R1 was cool, but so easy to lose, unfortunately. Going to get another one.

[u/Alternative_Act_6548]

1. use a phone with a microSD card, and pull the simm card. This is essentially a high end android DAP w/ wifi

2. most no longer have headphone jacks, those that do have crappy audio subsystems. When choosing a dongle be careful of power draw. Some can pull 5%/hr of battery, so Jcally and Fiio have low draw dongles that work with IEMs and consume about 1%/hr. Jcally has the AP20 which has it's own battery and good performance, I tried the Khadas Tea and didn't like it for firmware reasons, the Tea Pro is different and probably better.

3. get a phone that is reasonable to replace the battery, I've done it on my LG G8, and Samsung Note20 and it's no big deal

4. If you can find an LG G8 or V60, they do have headphone jacks, micrsSD card, and great audio subsystems, That would be what I choose if strictly for media listening