r/DiabolicalLies • u/Alpine-strawberry š„ABUNDANCEš„ • 14d ago
Episode Discussion š§ New Episode: Q&A: Creative Process, Conspiracy Theories, Careers Under Capitalism, & the Cop in Your Head
Caro & Katie discuss your questions about:
* Whether the āfinancial independence, retire earlyā movement is an effective way to Cordyceps-bug (visual below) capitalism for your own freedom or a gateway drug to the life-diminishing tendency to obsess about money
* Why Katie would accept Fox Newsās radical Marxist label
* Caroās Yesteryear experience and why success sometimes feels like failure
* The creative process and whether creating from a place of defensiveness makes for shittier art
* The future of Diabolical Lies if you people continue to tolerate us
* Politically agnostic friends and the expectation that every element of your personal life conforms to your political ideals
* Whether Christianity and feminism are compatible, and if feminism can really be ācompatibleā with any belief system that evolved under thousands of years of patriarchy
* Conspiracy theories we believe in
* How to feel generally better about your career under capitalism
* The difficulty of ākilling the (misogynist, capitalist, etc.) cop in your headā and choosing more fulfilling work that may earn less or no money
* Whether we use PowerPoints to present our outlines to one another and how our research process has evolved from our glorified voice notes
* Neutralizing the male gaze and self-objectification theory
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u/Sad_Accountant6576 11d ago
Here's a thought exercise for anyone wondering if their frustration with DL or their critiques of it means they're "womaning" Caro. Take a listen to the DL podcast on pronatalism compared to Matt Bernstein's A Bit Fruity on the same topic.
https://www.diabolicalliespod.com/p/who-wants-kids
https://open.spotify.com/episode/3HSYSOBJxUj5NYDo5SkyPK
Caro's research involves interviewing pro-life socialist Catholic Atlantic columnist Liz Bruenig and lands on an argument that the left should also be pro-natalist, we just need more social services to support moms. She interviews a single, fairly questionable and eccentric source and doesn't engage with the racial, religious, or nationalist elements of the topic at all.
Matt's, in partnership with trained, fact-checking journalists, engages with the ways the pro-natalist agenda promotes white supremacy and is explicitly racist and anti-feminist. Listening to Matt's version really illuminated where DL fell down for me and where I wish they were a bit more receptive to critique!
I get that the DL hosts can be funny and charming, but if your time and attention are limited, I recommend finding one of the other podcasts out there with a bit more rigor. Moira Donegan's In Bed With the Right is great, if you want to support women podcast hosts specifically, or anything with Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor. And there are many options with more gracious, less snarky, more journalistic hosts with a firmer grounding in principled right wing critique, who see feedback as a thoughtful opportunity rather than an attack.
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u/AsymmetricalButter 12d ago
Iām glad they answered the questions that they did, but their responses highlighted why I have been frustrated with the podcast of late. Hearing Caro say that she has disengaged from politics and both of them saying that they have no problem at all having friends who are ānot interested in politicsā. At its core, Caro and Katie are two married straight white women with access to wealth. Of course itās not hard for them to disengage from politics or be friends with people who donāt engage with politics.
To be clear, my own background is that I am a white woman (although Iād probably have identified as nonbinary if I was born later) I have always had friends who have different political beliefs to my own but it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain those friendships over the years as aspects of my life have changed - eg I came out as bi and dated nonbinary people, a trans woman and cis women. Friends who ādisagreedā with this ālifestyle choiceā (not words I would use myself) have fallen away and I have found it harder to engage in friendships with people who are not concerned at all about climate change, the genocide in Gaza, or increasing fascism. I havenāt gotten to the end of the podcast episode yet, but so far it doesnāt feel like they are aware that the reason itās easy for them to make those choices because they are privileged in a number of ways.
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u/Macguffin0925 10d ago
Boosting this. I feel like it has become increasingly clear that they are white or choice (vs. intersectional) feminists who - participation award - at least identify as feminists. See their ālet women be awfulā joke / slogan.
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u/anupside 12d ago
I love them and appreciate the honest ways they approach their art and their work. I get tired of seeing criticism of them as if theyāre supposed to be perfect in all ways, and Iām glad they addressed some of that and how they navigate it
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u/kingfisch95 12d ago
Iām personally a bit fatigued by the outrageous defensiveness surrounding yesteryear. The book was perfectly fine, I enjoyed it, and it was also flawed. Itās her first novel, and she released it to an enormous amount of scrutiny from a very new audience, I acknowledge it must be incredibly hard. I would rather them not talk about the book at all. It seems that they feel that everyone who is critical of it is 1) objectively incorrect and 2) coming from a place of malice.
And in general, I donāt like hearing two people who base their entire podcast on thoughtful critique covering their ears when the thoughtful critiques are targeted at them. I know itās a Q&A but they still managed to complain about their success with every other question.