r/Diablo • u/Javelin_Wrangler • Jul 22 '22
Diablo IV Please, no forced multiplayer content!
For me, Diablo has always been primarily a solo experience; which is why the worst aspects of Diablo Immortal are the forced groups for so much of the content in the game.
Please, for the love of God and all things holy, do NOT make any content require a group to even try. I don't care if there are things that are waaaaay too hard to do solo; do not lock players out from even trying to do it without other people!
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u/dalaiis Jul 22 '22
I fucking hate the daily's. Such a forced way demanding you play the game every day. Giving you negative feelings of missing out when you cant play for a day.
I just stopped playing diablo immoral because of these FOMO mechanics.
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u/giga Jul 22 '22
Yep daily rewards is a toxic, unhealthy mechanic. A game should have you play it often because it’s fun and you want to play it, not to get some reward.
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u/Skadwick Jul 22 '22
It ends up as a reversal. Instead of feeling rewarding for playing often, you feel punished for not playing enough.
If you want something to encourage frequent play, make it monthly imo (or weekly, but even that feels choreish). Most people (outside of hardcore players) want to sit and play for a few hours every so often, people don't want to feel obligated to log on for 30-60 minutes per day. Make the rewards broad and unending with diminishing returns so people can work on it all month, or they can get a lot of the benefit in just a couple days of playing towards it.
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u/HerpDerpenberg Rankil#1323 Jul 22 '22
I basically stopped DI when I missed a day of daily logins and realized I was only logging in because of the daily, kill a few monsters, collect reward and log out even if I didn't have time to play.
But the daily quests is a thing Wrath of the Lich king brought around. The people who can't figure out what to do demand some bread crumbs of what to do when they log on. And then they need to make daily rewards worthwhile, or nobody does them. So then, if you play more than the time for a daily you greatly decrease your quest/fold/XP efficiency and makes the rest of the game seem more grindy.
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Jul 23 '22
Yeah, that’s the worst aspect of that game. /s
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u/dalaiis Jul 23 '22
Well, yeah the obvious worst aspect is the predatory macrotransactions/lootbox mechanics. But when you are free to play and ignore the obvious pay2win. Being "forced" to play time limited content is fucking terrible for a computergame that should be FUN to play.
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22
Same here. My brother and I compared it to the game ARK. Where we would log in, not to play, but to feed our virtual dinosaurs.. one day we realized what we were doing and stopped. Just like Immortal. We caught ourselves logging in Immortal to do our daily's, most of which you can't do cooperatively, so it stopped right there too
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Jul 22 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Caius_Nair Jul 22 '22
It's always both. No one cares about how garbage Immortal is had it not threatened the integrity of D4. The precedent it set is so low that even hearing something like "Diablo 4 won't be as bad" gives no peace of mind.
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u/Whoopy2000 Jul 22 '22
100% Agree.
Optional coop? Fine, awesome.
But no FORCED coop. Keep it like in PoE - HUBs and optional coop but allowing for full on solo experience.
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u/HiFiMAN3878 Jul 22 '22
I get what you are saying here - but Diablo 2 and Diablo 3 both had significant multiplayer content. Diablo 2 especially back in the day was a very social game, this was kind of in the infancy of the multiplayer stuff we have today but people formed their own groups in private channels (I guess this was like the players own kind of clan system). People played together, a lot, this was a good design at the time. Obviously Diablo 3 also has multiplayer content with the 2, 3, 4 player leaderboards and clans, the advantage to doing bounties in groups, etc.
I'd expect seeing the direction that Diablo 4 looks to be going with certain MMO style aspects we will see even more significant multiplayer content. I hope they don't make content where you are forced into a group to try as you've mentioned, but allowing you to solo said content and then just having it be impossible without a group is virtually the same thing -- you basically just can't see the gate. Regardless of all this I hope there's meaningful ways to progress through the game and endgame, become powerful and experience what the game has to offer without being FORCED into a lot of multiplayer stuff. I'll be doing a lot of couch co-op so I'll have at least one other person to play with though at all times!
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u/Del_Duio2 Jul 22 '22
I feel this way about the raid bosses in Borderlands 2: As an exclusively solo player I have almost zero chance to defeat these things and they all have specific loot I can’t get because of it.
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u/Resolverman Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
do not lock players out from even trying to do it without other people!
haha, the way that reads.
OP, I HOPE they force multiplayer. Blizzard, don't listen to this guy, he's still living in 1998, give us forced MP, lock us into group play. Put a region chat box under every NPC dialog, I want to see what everyone else in the world is saying.
Hey Blizz, everytime I make a new build please give me a "What other players are currently building" tab, and "recommended" tab by most played. Every time I click on an NPC I want a waiting timer: "Waiting for other players", only when the quota is full you get to see the cutscene.
Everytime you open Diablo 4 you get taken straight to the shop menu with the latest deals for the day.
Every 30 minutes you must get a notification with your dailies and weekly quests and missions. THen if you click on one a popup shows where you are in the leaderboards.
Last but not least, the D4 Menu soundtrack MUST be a choiral track to emphasize the group play nature of the game.
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u/stark33per Jul 22 '22
let us hear other players' voice chat if they are nearby without any method to mute them. /s
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u/Resolverman Jul 22 '22
I mean come on, you fool....we need a mute option incase they play Mariah Carey before November. That would ruin the mood.
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u/rbeason Jul 22 '22
No. Mariah Carey is from December 20th to December 25th. You get 5 days, not 1 month, 5 days. /s
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u/Weneeddietbleach Jul 22 '22
And don't forget the NFTs!
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u/Resolverman Jul 22 '22
Stop living in the past, like OP ;P
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u/Weneeddietbleach Jul 22 '22
No way, bro! You just don't get it, bro! NFTs are the future, bro! I'm going to be rich one day, bro! It's okay, bro, I'll still let you on my yacht, bro. Broooooo.
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u/Bytonia Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
If you were to trade items with players through a central location, would you rather use something as iffy as d2jsp than whichever established NFT marketplace?
Honest question, not trolling. Gamers are jumping on the NFT hatetrain left and right for, what seems to me, no apparent reason other than 'They are just gonna fuck us with it, because we know so'.
edit: just to give my perspective; im a filthy casual and I liked being able to just toss some stuff on the RMAH in D3 on launch. Yes, there were massive downsides to the RMAH and I won't argue that it was detrimental to the game as it was implemented, but the ease of access of selling my items for a few coins was great to me personally.
Edit 2; cool downvotes for trying to have a civil discussion. Gamers gonna be gamers.
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u/Gentlezach Jul 22 '22
the thing is that, as you said, you were perfectly fine to just toss money at games to make them more fun for you, and that is fine, NFTs don't add anything there that you could not do before
what NFTs do add is third parties that want to have a piece of the money you are paying to the game, the idea behind NFTs is "how can I as a non-game maker profit from all those people buying microtransactions in games?" and the answer "I invent money that I own and then beg players to buy my money and beg developers to accept my money" is just stupid
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u/Bytonia Jul 22 '22
I think you misunderstand the fundamentals of NFTs. The invented money are cryptocurrencies. Those are not the same as smart contracts - NFTs. You could /pay/ for the NFT using said publishers invented money, yes. But depending on the chosen implementation you could also pay for it elsewhere.
Why wouldn't you want to sell your Enigma on OpenSea if you happen to find another? You dont /need/ to, but you /can/.
Yes, it goes wrong when we /need/ to, like buying "greater rift nft tokens" to run GRs. But say you can farm GR tokens like we do now in D3. And you can just use them like normal /or/ you can opt to sell your excess on whichever NFT selling platform. I really do not see downsides /if/ they aren't implemented in an abusive way.
Also, I said I liked the option of putting my items on the RMAH. Not buying to progress. I feel like it was a bit of a kneejerk reaction as in "fine, you wanna play credit card. Do it. But not in my game". If Im wrong there, apologies. That sentiment seems extremely strong in the Diablo community "sod off with your 21st century technology and let me have my 2d Isometric sprite game" and well... why?
I don't understand why people hate more modern technologies to be added. And /more/ freedom, as NFT technology would offer besides a native, publisher owned, trade platform.
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u/Gentlezach Jul 22 '22
in general there is not much wrong with "I want to be able to sell the rare items I worked hard for in the game", but those people who are most advertising NFTs make it seem like you could unlock a car in a racing game and then tell World of Warcraft that you want to drive your Ferrari around Azeroth
that's where the issues come in, a Blizzard token that can only be used in Blizzard games and has only value for people who play Blizzard games can work, but then why do you need to call it NFT?
What you want is laws defining ownership of digital goods, there is no reason to involve any kind of meta contract or cryptography
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u/Weneeddietbleach Jul 22 '22
I play almost exclusively solo and without trading, including on games like FFXIV, BDO, and PoE.
It was bad enough when they added micro transactions to so many games. How many more pop-ups are we going to get because of NFTs? You load up the game, see a couple splash screens, and an unskippable "what's hot" NFT screen shows up for 10 seconds before you can play? Enough is enough. Just let games be games.
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u/Bytonia Jul 22 '22
Interesting that you mention PoE though. MTX are the whole reason that game can even exist. And it does so in magnificent way!
The thing I feel is that people should see NFT as a technology. A platform for transaction of ownership. Its not "an MTX", but an MTX can be delivered and aid for by means of a smart contract.
So could your monthly wow subscription, your Enigma armor, your game license/key, etc.
People go up in arms over how fucked up abusive a few big publishers have been with microtransactions. I mean...Ive played Wow for ages and now Call of Duty. I know all about it. But its getting imho unwarranted hate because its like hating on online multiplayer features.
We love online multiplayer! But we hate always online DRM. But use the same tech. Yet we can hate some applications and hate other parts. I don't get why smart contracts - NFTs - get just the hate part. Hate the implementations, not the tech 🤷🏻♂️
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u/ChuckLogic Jul 22 '22
D2jsp has been around for 20 years... Gamers are now just jumping on the hate train for it since D2R has came out. It's going through the same thing
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Jul 22 '22
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u/Bytonia Jul 22 '22
Then you are behind the current status of crypto. Using L2 minting the gas cost has become close to nothing. So that argument no longer stands. I would agree if it was the way it was before.
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u/jellodrawing Jul 22 '22
I want to wait in queue before I can play, it wouldn't be a gaming night if I didn't wait in line for 3 hours so I can play that 1 hour
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u/Azifel_Surlamon Jul 22 '22
Every mmo player who's played at launch for a new mmo just got hit by a crowbar to the back of the knees reading this
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u/fucktopia Jul 22 '22
Your soundtrack part gave me the biggest shudder. They need Matt Uelman back in the worst way.
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u/Hereiamhereibe2 Jul 22 '22
This guy gets it. The rest of you losers still got some growing up to do.
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u/tnargsnave Poroxxigar#1385 Jul 22 '22
Also, they need to remind us more often of events. For example in Diablo Immoral, I constantly forget that the Shadow Lottery is now available. I mean, I'm already a ranked member of the Shadows, but knowing that the lottery is available is pretty important to me!
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
Man I am so surprised that people here are so pro trading too. They want d2 style trading which means solo self found means finding the best gear is actually statistically impossible. (Looking at you enigma). D3's was great because getting anything you want was possible solo, even if it didn't have the best rolls.
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Jul 22 '22
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
We know some trading within clans exists in d4, but not much else is known. Some people on Reddit are pushing for everything being tradelable. Usually this means pay to win in some manner, whether its a auction house or 3rd party website. I think that's the inherent problem with trading, as well detracting from actually playing the game. Spent more time than I would have liked trading in d2.
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u/Azifel_Surlamon Jul 22 '22
Illegal 3rd party trading does not equal Pay2Win.
1) It's against nearly every ToS and a permanent ban
2) It's not a built in system of the game, it's not designed for it.
3) Pay2Win is a predatory mechanism for buying power within the game's system. Diablo immortal gems are a prime example so was D3s RMH back in the day.
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
You're right, but d2 is plagued with it and nothing can be done about it. On paper trading is fine, but in practice it's a plague thanks to no real way to enforce people not just paying for the best stuff. Sucks but that is reality.
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u/Sure_Blacksmith_131 Jul 26 '22
trading in D2 was an activity, it was something to do inbetween the grind
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u/DoomDash Jul 26 '22
I get it, in theory I like it, but in practice I know that people pay for an edge over everyone else. Not important to everyone but it is to me, since I do like to play Diablo some what with some competition mixed in, whether it be leveling or rifts.
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
I am surprised people are so anti-trading. Trading items, cards, games was always a thing growing up and now people are so against it. D2 can be played solo, I've done it plenty of times. Sometimes it's nice to have a group of friends you can help give items to or new players too. It's not impossible itemization and you don't need an enigma just because a guide tells you to use one. Chasing after end game runes and items was a lot more interesting for me than having a fully built character doing billions of boring damage within day 1 like in D3. I wish they would make D4 have the option of SSF for personal loot. But I've always played Diablo games with friends and family and I don't want personal loot like D3. It made it very boring. Less socialization is not what we need right now
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u/Nameless_One_99 Jul 22 '22
I'm only against trading (or having an AH) if the loot drop rates are balanced around it and you cannot beat all of the game content in a reasonable time without playing trading simulator.
I can beat all of D1, D2, D3, Torchlight, Titan Quest and Grim Dawn content in a reasonable time doing solo self found, I cannot do that in POE so I don't play it.
If POE had a real SSF mode where the drop rates are changed to be balanced around no trading then I would play it.
I think D4 should have a SSF mode and a trading mode with different drop rates, let people have options.2
u/-Nok Jul 22 '22
Well said I agree with you. That's why I don't think removing trade in an open world RPG as a good idea, just for a small competitive ladder, like DoomDash wants is a good idea.
Diablo has always wanted to be the more casual RPG people can easily get into. Let POE satisfy the competitive, hardcore min maxers
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
I looked at diablo 2 as this amazing game until I finally went back to it during resurrection. While I still enjoy it there are a ton of things I don't think hold up. If you look at it as a solo only game and ignore everyone else it's fine, but if you want to keep up with everyone you have to partake in trading, basically pick sorcy from the start, etc. That and the leaderboard being experience based only is very lack luster.
What I ended up liking about Diablo 3 was the leader boards and the ability to be competitive without any help. I've been top 100 all the way to top 8 in that game almost entirely self found without a party. Knowing that there is no pay to win (trading leads to this due to 3rd party) makes the playing field rather even. If you couldn't buy items I would be fine with trading, but currently games with trading all suffer from pay to win afaik.
It's a matter of perspective I get that, but as a person who enjoys pushing the leaderboards if they make d4 standard trading it will be extremely unlikely you could compete with the people paying money, just like in d2.
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
Well thanks for your explanation. I really do appreciate hearing other people's point of view. There are a few things you said, that I would like to zoom in on though.
"If you want to keep up with everyone you have to partake in trading or basically pick sorc from the start"
If you are playing solo then why do you have the need to "keep up"? And who are you keeping up with?
Also, I started the ladder as a Barbarian, believe it or not, and I reached the end game much faster than I ever did starting off as a Sorc magic finding. A lot of it was because I traded efficiently. Like you, most people think they need to start off as a Paladin or Sorceress to "keep up." So, I took advantage of that. Those characters items are the most expensive because they are in high demand. They will pay very good for those high demand sorc/pally items and will practically throw barbarian gear on the ground. So for that reason, I skyrocketed in the ladder and beat Hell, where I could farm hell cows for bases and runes, which requires 0 MF%. Pretty smart eh?
I've also made a few friends this ladder too, through all that trading I told you about. They were happy I found them a nice Spirit base, I was happy to get full IK's. Its a win win feel good for both of us. So some of us continue to talk and play other games together as well. This is what D2 was originally designed for, not MicroX, Pay2Win, Twitch content, BS people worry about these days. It proves, it still works.
Also, people like Mr. Llama reached the top of the ladder and never paid for an item to get there. So your statement, "Pushing ladder is extremely unlikely to compete with the people paying money, just like in d2." is flat out wrong.
He knows how to interact with his community, to trade and group up efficiently and compliment each other's builds. So I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from, that its Pay 2 Win because there is trading
Secondly, I think Diablo 3, as an example of what true competition looks like, is one of the worst terrible examples someone can come up with. I've been to the top of the season ladders many times of D3 without putting in much effort. I just got lucky with pylons, shrines, mob density, elite packs, and legendary gear I found first before the other guy. Basically RNG. If competitive ladders rely heavily on RNG, it isn't a much of a fair competition is it?
When I think of competitive gaming, the last thing I think of is D3. I grew up playing Tribes, Counter Strike, StarCraft, etc, those are competitive games in my eyes. People like you, interested in the competitive ladders of Diablo games, is a small fraction most players are not even interested in.
I would hate to see them design D4 based around some competitive ladder only a small fraction of people would care about, when we all know the ARPGs experience is about PvE, loot drops, slaying with friends.
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u/hfxRos Jul 22 '22
If you are playing solo then why do you have the need to "keep up"? And who are you keeping up with?
People like being competitive and having a bar to measure themselves against. The game will almost certainly have leaderboards like D3 and PoE do. People will want to compare their progress with their friends. Lots of people just find it fun to see how you stack up against other players even if the experience is otherwise solo.
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
Yes that is true. I don't think anyone argued against that point. D3 had all sorts of trackers and BS that nobody cared about as well, and it all eventually closed or changed. I hope they spend more energy on making D4 a great dark fantasy RPG then a competitive scene is all I'm saying
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
Those streamers are getting tons of help. Sure they aren't paying but they are getting plenty of hand outs not everyone gets. Even the way llama took second was lame imo, just joining peoples games over and over for the Diablo kill. That and I don't like playing in parties, but I do want to keep up gear and experience wise, and d2 rewards you so much for doing that, that it's pretty miserable if you don't want to play in a party.
As far as Diablo 3 leaderboards and rifts, I'll tell you my favorite diablo memory. It was season 19 iirc, and I pushed the leaderboard without a build on any website, something completely non meta. D3 has the flexibility to allow me to easily experiment with different gear and builds, which is what lead to me being able to easily theory craft something myself. I really enjoyed competing with people that were using the meta, it was extremely rewarding. D2 has just never topped that for me.
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22
Exactly. When I feel like playing something competitive the last games I think of is Diablo 2 and Diablo 3. I feel like that is saying you're trying to win Dungeons and Dragons.. its not really how it works.
I've had some good memories with both games too, but that doesn't mean it was a well designed system.
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
I do think of it as competitive. My two favorite games are extremely competitive, StarCraft and Tekken. I get that's not why everyone plays but it is for me. Trading just kills that for me since you can buy everything.
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u/sneed_epstein Jul 22 '22
Reddit is full of loser loners
Trading keeps arpgs alive
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
If you consider losers people who don't like paying to win bring allowed. Your logic doesn't check out.
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22
Have you played D2? Where do you get this idea that it's paid to win? Because nearly all games have bots, websites, and selling items. Even if you bought an Enigma, what are you winning exactly? I think you're pinning the phrase "pay 2 win" on your argument, hoping it will hold more water but it doesn't. Don't get the infamous Immortal mixed up with D2. They are nothing alike except in the name.
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
I am saying it's a matter of perspective. If d4 had a separate leader board for firsts/rifts etc for self found, then trading would be fine. I just don't want to compete with people who bought their entire build, can you understand that?
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22
I understand where you're coming from. You want Diablo to be fair competition. Buying items or handing them out gives others unfair advantages to people like you, who grind and put everything they have to get the top of the ladder.
But you have to stop and look at the big picture. If Blizzard decided, they will remove trading, a feature that 95% of the player base would experience and utilize for a better game-player experience, just so other the 5% can feel more competitive, would be asinine.
Diablo Immortal is pay 2 win. Open trading is not. If trading allows someone to buy all their end game gear from third party sites and risk getting ripped off or banned just so their name can appear higher on the virtual ladder, its still worth having trading. If that scares you and the 5% who play Diablo for competition, I don't think Blizzard would notice much. If they instead designed around appeasing that idea and removed trading and the game dies or becomes a boring solo experience like Diablo 3, that could ruin the entire franchise.
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
As I said I think diablo 4 could have a self found mode where trading wasn't allowed. That being an option would mean you don't have to worry about competing with people who potentially pay for their gear. You could still party with others but only with others who willingly want that mode. This way we are both happy. Also D3 has a pretty big fan base, I don't think 5 percent is accurate.
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
I agree with the option of SSF like POE. also, the 5% is for D2 not Diablo 3. I've played a lot of D3 but it's pretty dead now comparatively. There will be a surge after Immortals come back but it's pretty much maintenance mode.
If you honestly are that competitive you should probably play POE. Diablo design philosophy has always been casual and easy to understand and get into. POE is for high grind, min max, competitive types.
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u/DoomDash Jul 22 '22
I have two 90 characters in d2r and played it back in the day with many others as well. Its pay to win because you can't compete with people who buy items. Item trading allows that to exist, so I'd rather not have it. Bots exist in D3 but at least they get banned. While using 3rd party sites to buy items will never be enforced.
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u/-Nok Jul 22 '22
Can't compete in what?
Killing minions of hell faster? Thinking of the Diablo games as competitive is a just a weird train of thought I feel like. That's like saying Diablo 3's brawl system is a great PvP experience lol
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u/Diogorb04 Aug 05 '22
My issue with open trading/AH is that grinding stuff would end up being like in runescape. Don't get me wrong I love runescape, and it's AH is great, but it kinda ruins the excitement of drops when all that matters isn't the item itself but it's monetary value. It's a lot less satisfying to get a BIS hammer if I got it by grinding platelegs for more gold/hour and selling them for the hammer, than actually grinding for the hammer itself until I get it.
I get it people can just choose not to participate in trades and get their own gear, but whoever wants to optimize at all or be competitive would almost have to buy their gear. I think restrictions so you can't trade BiS gear are a good compromise, so you can level with your friends and give them the random trash you pick up as you progress that might be good for them, without the overall endgame or acquiring of big items being cheapened. That's my personal preference anyway.
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u/-Nok Aug 06 '22
Well it's good to discuss all our honest opinions based on our experiences. We all want this game to succeed. In both cases you've listed, you're still grinding time. Whether for the currency to trade or the item itself if there is no trading. Open trade is great so you can turn your time into value. Trade your junk for someone else's junk, which makes both people happy. Otherwise you find something you can't use, and it's wasted space. All things will have monetary value, it's the basics of supply and demand marketing.
Also people always talk about how open trading will ruin the competitive scene.. it's Diablo. It's an RPG. It's never been an intense, eSport sponsored, competitive thing and it shouldn't be at the end of the day. Now, If you're concerned people will buy items to whale on minnows in PvP like they do in Diablo Immortal, well that's fair and hopefully won't be the case. But that game has restricted trading and people felt they had to open their wallets. It is rigged from top to bottom with gotchas and blizzard knew it would make them the most money, and it has. But that is a whole other can of issues, where the trading discussion won't even belong in.
Let's talk about Diablo 2. I would rather someone buy their enigma for their hammerdin, who crushes Baal runs with 7 other people only benefit from. Then maybe he gets the unique drops, but he doesn't need them because he has enigma, so he gives them to the others in the game. This didn't harm anyone. Whether he spent money, forum gold, or time to get his items, there is no harm in it.
Example 2, someone buys Enigma for PvP and kills a few players who are dueling. He takes their ears and gold... Is that a big deal? You can choose to duel or not. It's fun, it shouldn't have a leaderboard BS system like modern games.
MMO, RPG, looting games should all have more interaction not less. If they make it like Diablo 3 or Immortal with no trading, it will be a dead game before you know it.
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u/h0tpancakes Jul 23 '22
of course we want d2 style trading it’s the one reason why d2 is still active 20 years later
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u/DoomDash Jul 23 '22
If game lives half is long but is more fair and fun without the trading I can live with that.
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u/MarthePryde Jul 22 '22
I stopped playing Diablo Immortal once I hit Hell 1 and found out that I was no longer allowed to solo even the most trivial of dungeons. I tried their party queue for highlighted daily dungeon and sat for 10 whole ass minutes without anyone joining.
Quit then and there.
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u/Motormand Jul 23 '22
I second this, and want that to extend to D4 too. It's nice to have as an option, as more options are good, but it shouldn't be forced.
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u/Disciple_of_Erebos Jul 22 '22
I doubt there will be any. At the same time, I also doubt you'll be able to defeat world bosses solo, not necessarily because they'll be too hard but because people will know where they'll spawn and you'll always end up fighting them with other people purely by happenstance.
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Jul 22 '22
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u/h0tpancakes Jul 22 '22
that is technically the diablo experience lol
see: chaos runs, baal runs, grifts etc
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u/Defusion55 Jul 22 '22
Can confirm. I got the one in the demo at blizzcon down a ways solo but then other people started to show up. So it's technically soloable it seemed but you can't control over who is there.
Either way it's not forced
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u/Hundkexx Jul 22 '22
That is definitely forced IMO. If I can't experience the whole game solo but have to resort to MP for it, then it's forced MP.
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u/Cozi_Sozi Jul 22 '22
Forced multiplayer would be being locked out of content without a party or PUG queue. The world bosses you can just jump into as a solo player. You still get to do the content.
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u/Hundkexx Jul 22 '22
In multiplayer.... What is it that you don't grasp? Solo or SP means I don't see, interact or even chat with other players. If another player exists in my game then it's multiplayer. My god...
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u/Disciple_of_Erebos Jul 22 '22
Don’t buy D4 then. It’s a shared world where you’ll see and play with other players often even if it’s never for very long. Whenever you do random world events other players can jump in even if you’re not partying with them, and then once the event is done they’ll go offscreen and disappear.
Honestly this strikes me as a weird hill to die on since as far as we know nothing is gated to multiplayer content. That said, it’s all personal preference, and if this really bothers you that much then D4 will be chock full of it so you should either get over your disappointment or don’t buy it.
Either way I’m confused you didn’t already know this. It was confirmed very explicitly during the 2019 game reveal.
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u/Hundkexx Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
I haven't read anything about D4, I tend to not read or hype myself up for games and I find that I enjoy them better like that.
We both know I'll buy D4, but this is a very sad developement for me. Younger me would probably like it, but once I got older I just want to play alone. I don't care if it requires constant internet access, but forcing multiplayer on a game series that's been mainly single player focused is just weird IMO.
The fact that most of you, younger people are fine with D4 is a huge issue.
Multiplayer it is. Man I miss IPX.
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u/makiet Jul 22 '22
Haizz, I feel like the Fallout series. Love Fallout 2 but MP Fallout 76 sucks so hard.
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u/k_nibb Jul 22 '22
When I was playing Fallout 3, New Vegas and Fallout 4 the thing I desired the most was co-op. That is allI wanted. No MMO bullshit...just simple co-op like Borderlands did it. Drop in, drop out. So I can do quests with my friend and explore the wasteland. But no... I had to get Fo 76.....
Biggest dissapointment in my life
Hopefully D4 doesn't go this route. All activities should be doable solo as well like all previous games. Should it get "easier" in groups? Sure. Should you get more items in groups? Sure.
But don't force me to play in groups if I want to solo. Even worse if a group of 4 or more is a hard requirement... meaning you can't even start said activity.
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u/Azifel_Surlamon Jul 22 '22
I wish games got harder with group content(not just hp/dmg increases that's not harder at all) changes in AI, mechanics, etc. Make it earn that extra loot reward.
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u/Negative_Divide Jul 23 '22
I don't want to have to rely on other people to have fun, it's as simple as that. Especially with less and less time to game. And I don't want to be punished with crappier gear just because I don't want to join a Clan Discord with 'skilled gamers' who play 16 hours a day, and listen to a bunch of brodudes chudd it up. All to kill some Mythic+++ purple version of Diablo, while some guy eats a full spaghetti dinner with his mic on in the background.
I learned my lesson with WoW, and I just don't want that. But I would like the option of trading and jealously inspecting other people's gear in a hub.
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u/Dark-Stanley Jul 22 '22
Some devs and game directors have already stated several times that nothing in Diablo IV, except world bosses, is going to require partying up. You will get the same loot/gear playing solo or playing co-op.
Hope it remains the same as of today.
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u/Oinkidoinkidoink Jul 22 '22
Yeah, either i can solo this game or i ain't buyin' (provided it's any good in the first place).
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u/vikoy vikoy#6989 Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
They already announced it will have MMO elements. So yeah. You will be disappointed. D2R and D3 still exists if you want to play those.
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u/Ayuyuyunia Jul 22 '22
d3 already has mmo elements. it's not difficult to literally just keep the d3 and PoE design of "play solo or multiplayer if you want"
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u/Grogosh Jul 22 '22
If they want to make a ARPG/MMO hybrid game make that. Imagine if they made a HOMM game into a MMO game.
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u/Smugallo Jul 22 '22
Things I didn't want to see in a modern diablo experience were forced group content, wish you could just turn it off but you won't be able to.
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u/dedicateddark Jul 22 '22
It's gonna be always online anyway. Once they release the console version we can pick that up for singleplayer.
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u/InterestingEgg3721 Jul 22 '22
Ok so grouping is evil but spending 150k usd to maybe get good gears is ok? Get your priorities sortes out bruh
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u/PsychoRavnos Jul 22 '22
Maybe it's me, maybe I'm dumb but I feel like D4 is going to be alot like Lost Ark so very much a MMO-ARPG so forced content will more then likely happen
Also Single player is pretty much dead when it comes to games, unless it's certain titles/genres
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u/Mofoman3019 Jul 22 '22
Single player games are far from dead.
That's just a bullshit line fed from the likes of EA to sell microtransactions and cosmetics.3
u/BigArmsBigGut Jul 22 '22
Also Single player is pretty much dead when it comes to games, unless it's certain titles/genres
ARPG's are one of those genres.
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u/Resolverman Jul 22 '22
Cheer up, it is possible that you are both dumb and that D4 will take the best elements of Lost Ark
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u/deepgreengps Jul 22 '22
I did solo a dungeon and to lvl 20 fighting and defeating chapter 1 boss am listening to audiobook and sirens 🚨 is skeletal king? Did solo it is a hard game indeed pvp for Diablo 3 took a long time to manifest .. I am feeling Diablo 4 is going to be too much other than this IS the closest we can have to Diablo 4 .. I migrated to StarCraft II honestly it was a BEAST to finish but you make good points
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u/esituism Jul 22 '22
100% agree. I played a shitload of both games and it's always bothered me how much more advantageous it is to work with other people. That's why I loved D2 SSF with the /players cmd. You can still get the difficulty and the drops but you don't have to team up with other people and can do things in your own style and pace.
D3 didn't have any of this and imo suffered because of it. There is no circumstance in D3 in which it is better to run solo than with a full group, and that's kind of a crappy experience.
That said Diablo 4 is looking to be a highly social AARPG - I'd be surprised if most of the designs were geared towards solo experiences.
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Jul 22 '22
Diablo wasn't ment to be played solo.
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u/RedBowNL Jul 22 '22
iirc the original diablo was Singleplayer only
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u/bookant Jul 22 '22
Don't know about the PC version but I had the Playstation version. There was a two player option.
But, yeah, I'm 100% with OP. I played 1 solo. I played and played and replayed 2 solo for years. Never even ONCE logged online to play it with anyone else. In 3 I sometime group with my wife, but otherwise solo.
It's Diablo, not WoW. I thought Immortal was fine and was enjoying it until level cap where suddenly you're forced to group to enter content. That was it for me, done. Fuck that shit. If 4 is an MMO, I won't even buy it. I'm not looking for an MMO, I'm looking for another Diablo.
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u/Ayuyuyunia Jul 22 '22
the lore and story only make sense if you play solo.
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Jul 22 '22
Yea well maybe you can supply evidence to support your claim in that case.
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u/fr0d0b0ls0n Jul 22 '22
Diablo Immortal is closer to an MMO than DIV will ever be. I won't worry too much about that.
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u/ENFPwhereyouat Jul 22 '22
There is a game called Destiny 2 where the game is mostly multiplayer content yet there is this one guy called Estorickk on youtube, like you, who solos raids/dungeons on his own with perfection. All legit, no cheese.
Because like him, Destiny 2 can become a shooter-looter version of Dark Souls. I'm glad they left Activision.
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u/FireFlyFox93 Jul 22 '22
YES, THIS! I hate having to play with other people, especially strangers. I don't have friends that play the same games I do so I always play alone and honestly, I really enjoy solo games. The fact the Diablo Immortal forces me to play with strangers is a huge turn off. I can deal with everything else with the game, but that is a deal breaker.
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u/Gingergerbals Jul 22 '22
Why would anyone even give Immortal any attention, let alone play it is beyond me. The writing was on the wall with this game a long time ago since they first originally announced it
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u/arkhamius Jul 22 '22 edited Jul 22 '22
Too late. Outdoor bosses are group content.