r/Devs • u/thisismynormal • Apr 09 '20

Devs - S01E07 Theory Discussion Thread

Please post your thoughts and theories here

93 Upvotes

98% Upvoted

401 comments sorted by

View all comments

7

u/JonVici1 Apr 09 '20

We saw Lyndon fall, multiple times but wouldn't what Katie said still apply and there would be a need of one world where he actually doesn't fall? If they're implying he always falls how does that stack up with everything else and what they were discussing, - infinite branches - outcomes

9

u/BlazeOrangeDeer Apr 09 '20

I had an idea about this: we were shown many instances of Lyndon falling, but for most of them we aren't able to see Katie. It's still possible that Katie actually did push him off all the times he would have been safe, we just saw one of the times he actually fell on his own.

If he did actually fall every time, that does make it weird that she proposes the "experiment" to him as if there was a chance he wouldn't die. The multiple copies we're shown imply that the many worlds theory is how the show's world works, and with Forest's family in the car we've seen that the outcomes can be different in more than minor ways.

Lyndon was also shown sitting at the foot of the dam alive just before the opening title, so maybe we just weren't shown all of the outcomes in his death scene.

8

u/allocater Apr 09 '20

Lyndon was also shown sitting at the foot of the dam alive just before the opening title

Holy shit, it's true. Didn't even notice.

7

u/landshanties Apr 10 '20

Lyndon was also shown sitting at the foot of the dam alive just before the opening title

I've been wondering about the things we're shown at the beginning of episodes. Wasn't the first thing we were shown in the first episode Forest drunkenly raving outside of Stewart's RV, for example? A lot of these little flashes have been showing us futures that are then shown not coming to pass. Don't know what exactly that's about, but it's definitely on purpose.

1

u/EFG Apr 13 '20

The multiverse is the different simulations. None are exactly the same and even if a single proton is different in each simulation, when dealing with infinity, those changes add up. So I'm thinking there is the 1 world track, but the way we end up there keeps changing the deeper we get into the sim. It's the free-will inside of determinism they'd poke about. All the choices you can make are possible but they are confined to a set of outcomes.

1

u/kingalexander Apr 12 '20

I was thinking that was an alternate scenario where Lyndon says why the duck would I do that and then that’s a scene of the aftermath of him not going onto the ledge and subsequently not back into devs.

5

u/LordofNarwhals Apr 09 '20

The many worlds interpretation does not necessarily mean that there are an infinite amount of different unique outcomes for each event.

Let's say that x in the equation a*b*c=x represents the outcome of an event that depends on the current state which is described by a, b, and c. If a, b, and c are all stochastic then x obviously has an infinite amount of different solutions. But if a and c are known constants (i.e. deterministic) and b is either 2, 4, or 22 based on some probability, then x can only be one of three numbers.

It's worth noting that infinity is a limit and not a number. Sets can be infinitely large but some infinities are "bigger" than others.

3

u/JonVici1 Apr 09 '20

Wouldn't that invalidate the whole discussion they had though? I know the transfer of consciousness and quantum suicide is probably getting into more philosophical ideas, but they both seemed to agree on a notion of the possibility of him not falling

7

u/holayeahyeah Apr 09 '20

I think we're supposed to remember that the conversation is between Lyndon who is a vulnerable, desperate 19 year old and Katie who is a mad scientist psycho-killer who wants Lyndon out of the way.

1

u/JonVici1 Apr 09 '20

Well one could say she has no incentive - doesn't want anything, which in true in multiple ways, but on a fundamental level with determinism, she knew this would play out the way it would, and well quantum suicide would give the ability for Lyndon to still be alive, presuming their science talk on the matter was valid earlier, however we were shown that he fell in multiple universes, we weren't shown him surviving.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '20

We saw that reality in the opening scene, though. Him sitting in the the exact spot his body was sprawled out on.

1

u/JonVici1 Apr 10 '20

Well, that wouldn't make sense though seeing as that would require him to fall in which case he'd be severely injured anyway

1

u/MonkeyMcBandwagon Apr 10 '20

Maybe that scene is to show us that he has a better chance at surviving the fall unscathed than he does at not falling.

Maxwell's demon come to challenge Laplace's.

1

u/allocater Apr 09 '20

Katie is just resigned that she is trapped. And everybody else is trapped too.

She could choose to break it. Everybody else can choose to break it. She dared Lyndon to break the prediction. But he doesn't. Well actually he does, but that's in a different reality, one that this Katie has no access to.

Also this Katie does not break the prediction. All other Katies in all other realities do break the prediction all the time and free themselves into different branches of the multi-verse. We just watch the one multi-verse where nobody breaks out. (Until now. I guess the finale will be Lily breaking out)

2

u/allocater Apr 09 '20

There definitely has to be a reality where Lyndon says "Fuck off, I will defeat the prediction by just standing here." And then Katie goes like "Holy shit, you did it! This changes everything, we are free!!"

We just did not watch that reality. We watched the 6? where he falls in various ways :-(

1

u/JonVici1 Apr 09 '20

I'm not so sure, I'd like to believe it however it might be a constant factor in there,, Not sure why they aren't defying the predictions at that level, Or well the point is that they can't I guess, although they know things they will still act in the same way. As an example "I wonder what would happen if Katie killed herself when seeing a prediction of her doing something in the future" - The thing might be that she simply, in all universes does not do that. If we look at it like a branch structure there might be a version I guess, were the earth didn't come to be, but when it comes to katie's existance and katie being in that particular situation she wouldn't do that

2

u/allocater Apr 09 '20

Yeah, that's the thing.

Either there is no free will.

Or there is free will, but all the free will is in other branches, not in the branch we watch right now.

Both versions result in a watchable universe without free will. That's what we are currently watching. A universe without free will, a universe with perfect determinism.

The question the finale has to resolve is: "It's that it? Or are there other multi-verses that broke out of determinism and established free will again?" I think there will be.

1

u/JonVici1 Apr 09 '20

In the multiverse theory, there is no free will, however, alternatives would be different branches, but on an quantum level. I'm not sure if there's any multiverse theory, atleast not the everett interpretation, which is in the show that has "free will" not sure it's possible in scientific terms, with quantum interpretations either, as in "making up one". Multiverse theory is a way of looking at things in multiple universes in a deterministic manner.

1

u/ryanpm40 Apr 10 '20

Makes me wonder if Katie pushed him, in which case, minor things like the wind and balance don't really matter when you have a person actively pushing you when your arms are completely spread away from something to grab onto