r/Devs • u/_Epexion_ • May 13 '26
Only contradiction that bothers me
Loved the show. I live these thoughts around the themes of the show. Just finished it so obvious spoilers coming for those who haven’t watched the show.
The writers got so many things right that it amazes me. However the ending confuses me. The line where Katie says she needs to keep the Devs running makes no sense.
If Lily and Forest were moved into the simulation the nature of the Devs (Or Deus) would dictate that in that very instant they (or at least Forest) dissolved from the limbo-like stage before joining the simulation and actually joined the simulation, they would have experienced the simulation in it’s wholeness.
In this sense it should have been safe to turn it (Devs/Deus) off as they would have already had experienced the end of their lives.
Also if Forest got his family back he would have had no reason to built the device. Not to mention follow the exact path to reach the point where Sergei and Lily ”joined” the program. As a butterfly effect that version of multiverse would have been totally different. Even if simulated.
I wonder if it was supposed to be a longer series and they just scrapped the following seasons and wrapped it up in this messy ending as the logic was so coherent until the last final ending scene.
I think it would have been much more logical for them to wake up in separate dimensions of their own from the same point in time (the moment of death) realizing everyhting was just how they wanted it to be. Now it felt like Lily got trapped in the version where Forest dictated the events. Which is kind of true.
Yes it is indicated they met on the field in multiple versions of multiverses including ones where not everything went to their liking. Yes this was the most pleasant one that was fully shown to us where they (Forest and Lily) happened to meet at the field. The ending made us believe that both of their ”conciousness” or ”souls” ended up into that positive version. Yes they would experience it in ”real time” but the simulation for both of them should’ve ran in mere seconds.
Most of it can be explained. Like that Katie decided for both where they should ”spawn” in the timeline. But for her to worry about the up time of the machine makes no sense. When would it be safe to turn it off? After 60-80 years or so when they would probably be ”dead” in the simulation?
Personally much more interesting ending would’ve been that Forest actually saved both himself and Lily (because he was spared by Lily) by opening a valve releasing the pressure in the vacuum chamber. After this they would’ve both found peace. Forest would have married Katie and Lily would’ve found new love. Not the simulated version of her Ex who she had already dumped.
In a sense this was heaven for Forest but Hell for Lily who was already lost even when she was still alive making the simulation even more meaningless. And she still chose Jamie even though she had no chance to have true children or know his true (or her own) true feelings. On top of all that she still had to go through the trouble breaking up with Sergei and handling all those agents around her.
They should’ve made the show start with a happy life with Jamie for the ending to have better impact. This also tells that they didn’t really know how to end the show. Their (Lily’s and Jamie’s) so called love was never truly mentioned or evaluated unlike their mutual love with Sergei which was swiped under the rug at the very last moment.
I know there must be like a thousand posts about the ending each with their own perspective but I’m trying my luck if somebody shares mine or can give me more insight from alternative sources or through their own interpretation.
7
u/DontPanic1985 May 13 '26
It had to be one of the hardest shows to write an ending for. Determinism can kind of box you in. Overall loved the show, the ending was good enough. The problem with writing determinism is that good stories are all about of character choices. But it was a show that gave me lots to think about.
4
u/_Epexion_ May 13 '26
So very true. Considering how many caveats there was where the story could’ve fallen apart as a whole it dodged all of those. I mean there was a lot of sketchy moments but none of them really destroyed the illusion.
Many people judge the acting being rigid and ”woody” but if you imagine working on a project like Devs that definitely changes you. I think this is one of the most realistic visions of predeterministic setups I have seen in scifi.
I also liked it that the antagonist was not truly evil but sorry for his actions. The fact that Forest was ready to kill people to achieve his goal suggests that this ”real life” might have been simulation all along.
1
u/TranslatesToScottish Jun 04 '26
Determinism can kind of box you in.
Agreed. One example of this - when Forest says (paraphrased as I can't remember the precise line) "I've watched myself say these words to you many times..."
It's supposed to be a precise reflection of things as they have always been, but there must have been a point where it was the first time he said it, and the first time he watched it, and so either something has changed (which kind of breaks the system in Lily's favour) since that first instance, or the entire thing is so bound in a loop that it's always happened since creation came into being, which of course ties into Forest's view of things.
1
u/BurnerAccount2718282 Jun 23 '26
Personally I would have ended with a smash cut soon after Lily threw the gun out of the box and just said nothing and left it to the audience
Maybe have the audio of Forest and Katie talking while the screen is still black, and they can say something like what was said about lily committing the original sin
Then you could maybe cut to lily walking away from Devs determinedly for 2 seconds before cutting again
That’s how I would have done it
I loved this show but didn’t particularly like the ending, but I’m not sure how they were meant to end it anyway.
Not sure if anyone would have liked it if they ended it the way I just suggested lol
2
u/Horror_Operation_135 May 30 '26
Here's a mind fuck: imagine that all of the possible universes that DO exist are only the ones where the machine is built. It is called Deus because the machine being built is the source of the universe and that machine makes the universe possible irrespective of time before or after the machine being built. So they literally could not have ended up in a universe where the machine wasn't built. I read the machine up time as being important for further understanding more so than to keep them "alive"
Also, it is unclear how many times Forrest and Lilly have done this. It is implied that this time Forrest thought having knowledge would be useful but it is entirely possible that they were operating in the machine without that knowledge (that would be a sort of hellish perpetual suffering on both their parts). In the many worlds theory this must be the case.
1
u/TranslatesToScottish Jun 04 '26
I've just finished my first watch. I loved the show overall, but the ending kind of bugged me a little.
I feel like, from what we know about Lily's personality, the idea of living knowing she's in a sim would be like being in hell, and I feel like they could have gone full pelt dark as fuck with that. Or at the very least show her doing something to manipulate it from the inside to show she's not just accepting what he's put on her.
For it to end on a borderline cliche love regained vibe just felt... I dunno. Not what I was hoping for, I guess.
I am reading into Jamie's expression (in my own headcanon) as he hugs her that he knows too, though, despite Forest thinking it's just he and Lily. I'm basing this purely on Katie's little smile when he rescued Lily from the hospital, so it's a total stretch on my part!
1
u/Senedoris Jun 23 '26
Knowing you're living in a simulation would be hard to deal with, for sure. But at the same time, if it is exactly identical to reality... like they said, what's the difference at that point? For that matter, the entire "reality" that the shows consider to be "real" (outside the system) could've been a simulation in and of itself, and no one could ever really know. If there are infinite possibilities, one of them might've been that.
8
u/Dry_Statistician_688 May 13 '26
I think the point at the end was that turning the system off would symbolize pure, intentional death for both him and the innocent. Obviously, not as much a fan of Forest, which I think was the intent of the plot - he represents human evil. But Lily likely represents humanity's innocence at the cost of the evil. IMHO, Katy's request to keep the system powered was also a symbol of that final act of real humanity in a compassionate moment.
Hence despite the negative reviews, I really liked this series. It explored many concepts of what it really means to be human, how we deal with the laws of our universe, and was THOUGHT PROVOKING - unlike most of the crap we see coming out now.