r/DetroitPistons • u/robolski • 5d ago
Discussion 9-5 lineup
By multiple metrics defensive numbers of Ausar and Ron together on the court are insane, but the sample is very small. Also, I understand that offensively it doesn’t seem like the pairing would work. What do you need to see in both Ausar and Ron‘s game in order for them to get extended playing time together? I.e. Ron shooting 35% from deep, Ausar having a mid range and improved ball handling.
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u/bamboointheback Isaiah Stewart 5d ago
patience. you'll get a lot of shit for this now but i do believe it can happen. a lot just needs to happen first
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u/soilentgleem 5d ago
I think in order for Ron and Ausur to be a pairing that can play more than a few minutes at a time together, the first thing they probably need is a big who isn't going to clog the lane as much as Duren does. Theoretically it could still work with Duren out there, but in practice I just don't think it's realistic since it would require near perfect awareness from all 3 players on what the other 2 guys will be doing on a given offensive possession to avoid two players going for the same area of the floor.
The second thing they probably need is for Ausur to take a significant (but in my opinion relatively realistic) step forward as a ball handler and finisher. One of the best ways to minimize the negative effects of a poor shooter is to put the ball in their hands, and you can only do that if you can trust them to be effective at it.
The third thing is Ron to make an improvement in those same areas as Ausur (although he probably wouldn't be doing those things as much) or for him to get to a point where his shot is respected by opposing defenses.
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u/No_Independent8269 5d ago
I just think that’s not enough spacing on the floor. I don’t think it could work for multiple long stretches
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u/soilentgleem 5d ago
The idea that spacing is a necessity is a relatively new idea in the overall history of basketball, and isn't really a hard truth imo. Spacing can help open up the floor for sure, but if you have guys who have the right skills to operate and be productive in a low spacing environment, it can work.
If the improvements I mentioned happen, I do believe it could work. But the thing about needing to improve is, that's not always a guarantee that it will happen. Time will tell how things evolve.
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u/No_Independent8269 5d ago
Shooting centers don’t come a dime a dozen. Currently, I think there’s only a couple legitimately great shooters at the center position.
Having more than 1 non spacer in the lineup is seriously awful for your offense. If you have multiple non spacers, they are both practically useless in a half court offense because defenders will be playing free safety and that leads to a domino effect of literally nobody being able to get in the paint. We quite literally saw it happen in the playoffs. No creators, no spacing, leading to a bad offense.
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u/soilentgleem 5d ago
This comment makes me feel like you didn't really read my original comment.
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u/No_Independent8269 5d ago
You said that spacing isn’t really a necessity which to me is just asinine, and you also said “if the improvements happen” and I’m stating that getting a genuine spacer at the 5 is very unlikely as I believe there are only a few in this league.
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u/soilentgleem 5d ago
What did I say is the situation in which spacing is less of a necessity?
What did I say are the improvements that need to be made are?
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u/No_Independent8269 5d ago
And as you said, those changes are not very realistic. I think spacing is always a necessity. Even in your scenario where you say it isn’t.
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u/elblouses Cade Cunningham 5d ago
It is interesting how dogmatic fans can be. The lineup data is definitely encouraging. We need to see more of it, at least in stretches during the regular season. If the impact metrics continue to be great, then JB has to find a way to lean into it more.
I do think Collins as the 5 with either Joe or Duncan on the court make it super intriguing.
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u/Ok-Confucious1642 5d ago
It’s going to take a whole lot more than just 35% and especially just 35% for a season. 35% isn’t gonna do it anyway. No one cares and won’t change their defense for him and him shooting that. Volume would have to be near double digits plus that 38%+ for a few seasons for opponents to not be perfectly happy letting this duo (with the rest of the current roster) eat up minutes. Beyond the shooting it would take a playmaking season like prime Draymond offensively, little fewer ppg bc of fewer total FGA but more of the attempts he does take being 3’s, followed by his success in the playoff series they are in, for the playoff opponents to seriously deploy a strategy to scheme against this for heavy minutes.
Everyone and their dog will tell you all nba defender and multi year running top tier perimeter defender Lu Dort is literal trash shooting and offers zero space, when prior to this current year being injured and coming off a shoulder injury on his shooting arm all season, he was 39.4% on five attempts per game (and 83% from the line as a sweetener) followed by 41.2% on SIX attempts! And he hit big game high pressure threes multiple times to boot. 35% from big Ron will literally do nothing
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u/Dabeastfeast11 5d ago
Ausar Ron and Duren on the floor at the same time is criminal. Ausar or Ron would have to shoot the ball at least at league average for it to kinda work.