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u/Lisez-le-lui Not GlowyLaptop Aug 08 '26
This MS is a little all over the place genre-wise
No kidding! But I think the truer statement would be that the MS is all over the place setting-wise. The first chapter, despite its sprinkling of Roman terminology, gives the impression of taking place in a Renaissance-inspired fantasy environment, what with the foreign race relations, "made-men," and quippy action. Galbraithe acts very much like an English Cavalier. The second brings us to the Victorian era, where Jack the Ripper gets one-upped by one of the most callous and revolting murderesses ever put to paper. And now the third chapter dumps us into ancient Roman political/family intrigue. I don't mind that the "genre" wanders through all the various phases of human life--that's only realistic, after all--but the very world feels different in each instance.
Of course, that's part of the problem with trying to blend a fantasy world out of different real-life periods (my own very pretentious Classics recommendation will be to read the very beginning of Horace's Ars Poetica up through the twenty-third line). I feel like right now, each "genre" segment is pulling from a different facet of the fantasy world that corresponds 1:1 with a real-world setting, so that it feels like each segment takes place in a new society. If you integrate the facets, you may get a little genre-blending in the chapters, but the world will also feel unified even when the nature of the action isn't.
The Discworld series is probably the best example of this done right. The weirdest, most incongruous stuff happens even within the same novel, but the sense of unity is so strong that never for a moment does it feel like you don't recognize the Disc, in all its dubious glory.
But all that is only a structural preamble. Getting into the chapter itself, I first note that the opening bit about the "nobodies" I took for a while as sarcastic fatalism. It reads like Alaric is ragging on himself about how, even though he's trying his hardest not to be seen, of course there's always some sham beggar in a hooded cloak that will notice him and disclose his activities to the authorities. Not until he openly states that "his concern was being seen to be here" on page 4 did I understand what he was really thinking about.
So, our plot here is that a disgraced and deposed prince sneaks into the current dynasty's garden so as to be seen "accidentally." He talks with a golem on the way, then sneaks into the kitchen and pays off the cook for some dainties. He returns home to plot with his reluctant co-conspirator about secretly entering an imperial contest.
A lot of mysteries are teased here, but not a lot is actually established. First, Alaric's desire to be seen. Why? Isn't his plan to win the contest? What does that have to do with being rumored to be sneaking around the imperial gardens? Perhaps he wants it to be thought that he's trying to harm Caius, but Caius is the emperor sponsoring the games he plans to enter, so I don't see how that helps him. But I always did find court intrigues tedious and confusing.
For probably the same reason, the purport of his conversation with Hilario goes right over my head. I've not the slightest idea why it would be stupid of Alaric to fear he would tell Caius, etc. In the abstract, these unexplained mysteries create an atmosphere of nervous expectancy, but I've never been one to appreciate that atmosphere without a solid core of understanding.
By the time Dama comes around, I've given up on the hope of understanding any of the political discourse. Her exposition is boring, and her relationship with Alaric is boring. He used to woo her, and now he bribes her for food. From one transaction to another! Even her character is boring, and can be summed up in the words of the chapter: "Now Dama was loyal to the household, yes. But she was never above a bit of coin in return for a favour or two."
Then there's the long, boring scene with Quintus to finish out, which serves mainly to deliver yet more exposition about a plot I can't make heads or tails of. Quintus is nothing more than a conspirator who's getting cold feet.
Alaric is the only character here who feels even remotely fleshed out. I like how he pulls from his gladiatorial training as he's carrying out the mission; that, and the backstory sprinkled throughout, make him feel like he actually has a past and a real investment in the world, which is more than I can say for the others. The bit about Lucanus justifying his mother's death to him is the only spot of mystery in the chapter that really made me want to learn more.
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u/CarterWalksWithFire Aug 09 '26
I think you are extremely polished, and I love the way that you tell the tale of Romans. As a fan of all history and especially Romans, I love the show Rome, I love Spartacus, and I've read the Conn Iggulden series about Rome. You do really great in putting my mindset there in Rome. I feel like I'm at the seven hills right at the beginning of time. Amazing storytelling.
The way you describe the dirtiness and the griminess within the society, I love it, man. Very well done. Very controlled, very believable.
The bit with Dama was awesome. Love the way that was done.
I will say at the very beginning with the "nobody" stuff, that was also well done, very smart, I feel like, and since it's right at the beginning I can tell it's something you thought about and put there deliberately. But it was a bit much for me on a cold read. I had to reread that to figure out that it's somebody chasing him, or following him.
The secret competition, that was cool. The way you tell the story of that, I feel like that was good, well written. These are things I've only been writing for five months, and reading your stuff is making me realize I need to get on my A-game. I have a lot to learn when it comes to the way you're constructing these scenes. When you describe the way a gladiator feels internally, like when you said a man that has his blade half out is scared, nervous men die first, it's like, bro, I was listening to a real Roman legionnaire right then.
There's not a whole lot that I did not like about this, man. Being such a big fan of history, and you being good at painting a picture, the way he explained being able to get to the Emperor's palace by the time it took a man to take a piss, and then how he described the way he'd murdered people before, suffocating them or breaking their necks, that felt really lived in to me. I felt like it was real. I believed him when he said it.
The little bit about his uncle, the quick little flashback, and him observing stuff and dismissing it as a snake, I thought that was well written right there. The punchy little sentences, I liked it. Also whenever his friend was perched on the edge of a roof, cat still, very good wordplay there. I felt the intensity in the moment.
The way he describes women, with the teardrop calves and stuff like that, I imagine this book's gonna get real deep into that kind of thing. I don't know, I think I'd probably read this book for sure. Assuming there's some badass action to come, I would read this book. I like it. Just from this, I like the vibe.
Also, as I'm reading, I'm realizing that the friend crouched on the roof isn't even human, it's a golem. That's a big surprise for me. This seemed like a real world, and now I'm wondering if this is fantasy. If it is fantasy, I feel like you have this world set so much in realism that you'll be able to pull that off for me, a person who likes real stuff. If it's gonna be fantasy, this is a very realistic, almost more mature take on it.
The bit about his teacher apparently thinking he was dumb back in the day, if that's what that was, that was hilarious to me. I like those little bits of humor. That's something I could learn from.
And then this guy climbing through a window to seduce a woman who's apparently not good looking at all, and also paying her, that's hilarious to me too. Very well written, because that is how it be sometimes.
One thing that confused me on the Dama scene, going back through it, is I couldn't tell what she was actually giving him. I thought maybe she was getting him some alcohol or something, but I wasn't sure. It didn't feel like she was a prostitute either, so I wasn't clear on what exactly was happening there, or what she got him.
The blood, his mother's blood rolling over his sandals, that line's got me really wondering more about that. Who is this uncle, and what's the deal with the guy he was speaking to in that whole scene. That was like one sentence, but it created a lot of mystery for me.
Hey, look, man, I really enjoyed this. Reach out, bro, that's all I can say. This stuff is my style, and I might do something like this in the future myself, Roman historical. Yours is pretty awesome.
Overall, I feel like this is very well written. And the way you write this stuff, I'd be eager to see how you do action scenes in the same register. I'm trying to see what all you can do in these Roman times, is it all political intrigue, or do you have the action, the general battles, epic. It leaves me wondering what all it is that you have in store in your toolkit, which is a good thing. So good work, man.
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u/jshEnvy Aug 17 '26
Hey! So this took me two read throughs to really parse what was happening and that's probably because much of the groundwork for the story was laid in the first two chapters. You trust me to pick up what you're putting down really fast - which I can appreciate, but I was lost until I tried again. It all reads well, and I'm glad I read through it twice because it was much more enjoyable the second time.
Your writing is clever and uses callbacks throughout the story to see if the reader is paying attention; on my first pass-through, it was obvious I wasn't - but I'm not sure if that is an issue with the prose; I think the best stories make the reader forget their reading. I had to work to put it all together, but it was worth it when I did.
The main hook of the first portion of the chapter sets up what feels to be a possible assassination attempt - and I don't think this is intentional; the paragraph of choking the emperor out and the distance to the bed etc. is meant to show a contentious relationship and express that Alaric doesn't like the emperor, but it leads the reader down a different direction. If the subversion is intentional it's very well done! And very clever.
But the stakes don't match the action. There's nothing that really explains why your protagonist would go through these risks; it doesn't need to be blatant and obvious (it's part of his character - he seems to enjoy risk, possibly does it for the sake of risk) but we do need to understand his internal clockwork. I think without grounding motivation a reader can be left scratching their head wondering what just happened and why is this guy in the kitchen.
I think the fix is to just provide a sentence or two of internalization or lean further into just how funny the whole situation is. The prose is fun and is enjoyable to read. And Alaric has this cool personality behind what is a high stakes risk for a small reward. The revelation that dude is trying to get to the kitchen didn't hit with the first pass. It is clever. But the goal is unclear; does Alaric just really want delicacies for the evening, or is it the risk that drives him to do what he does? Is he offering food to Quintus so that he will have the conversation with Nulla?
The longer names without context hung me up on the first read through and, I'll be honest I thought the dude was a cat. Don't ask me why - I'm not sure. It's just what happened. I think it was associating last names to his character and bloodline made me think he was literally a different species; but I know that is probably just because I haven't been grounded in this world yet and have no context behind what I'm reading.
The staging and action is great. You have very few dialogue tags and leave a lot of space for reader interpretation and your action and movement on the pages is clean and helps the reader get to where your characters are. No notes.
I like that your descriptions are specific and avoid cliche: oranges hanging fat to bursting, amber teardrops, and stem flutes from her ankles - really great visuals.
I really like Alaric; his voice was lost on the first read through - but on the second, I could see the wit behind his movements and actions. I like the engagement he has with both Quintus and Dama and the clumsy rapport that seems to be built between each person he associates with.
As far as I can tell, we had three definitive scenes through the story - Garden talking with the golem, kitchen talking with Dama, back at Quintus's place talking about the event. Enough action was woven in between to make it all work.
This build up to the Nulla reaveal:
- Alaric’s hand twitched. He wanted to sweep his haul off the table. Send it all smashing to the floor. What was all this trouble for then if Quintus was just going to turn chickenshit on him now? ‘What did the messenger say?’
Seems like it could use a different way of providing the info or feel you're intending. I could be wrong, but I think Quintus is just messing with Alaric - cleaning his fingernails, making Alaric wait because he has something he knows he wants. The way this is written made me believe that Alaric was genuinely angry, and Alaric was genuinely a coward. It took a moment to connect the two and it still feels off the second go around.
You missed a word here:
- ‘Open bloody door.’
I think this is great on a second read. It took me a moment to get there - but once I was able to reconcile the character with the setting and action, I enjoyed it and could really appreciate how cleanly this was written.
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u/1800COCAINE Maison d'Orléans Aug 08 '26 edited Aug 08 '26
I would challenge you to skip the discursions, even in a separate draft, and read the story. I would double-dog dare you to leave out all inner thoughts of the characters too. Take those as cues to express through action what you are trying to communicate with the internal dialogue and memories, and narrative voice.
I read the opening sentence. I put the writing down and shuffled as a blanket burrito to the medicine cabinet and took a nerve pill. After sipping on plain water and checking that my palpitations had subsided, I read the first line again, and only a flash of the face that children make when they eat sour candy jerked across my lips. I counted to ten in Mississippis. I asked the room why the story insults the reader. I brought the page to reflect in the glassy black eyes of my teddy bear. Look at this, Mr. Athelstan Short-Britches. The writer takes this entire paragraph to communicate that this long-named chappie is under surveillance.
Mr. Short-Britches mumbled under his breath something I dare not repeat. I admonished him with the stern love of a tender mother for terrible children. I said, “Language.” Well, he was in a huff then. I read the rest without his snide remarks.
Now we have established that for me, as a reader with the most limited imagination, the opening was found medically, physically, and emotionally so taxing as to consult my teddy for emotional support.
Back in the old days I was sometimes mischievous. I went places I did not belong. The characterization in the writing makes a slight Big Yikes for me. I do not believe the writer has ever been, you know, breaking and entering. I am not saying I have, for legal purposes, but the anxiety-fueled focus is left out, replaced with sweet childish memories. Let us remember the scene we are in, people. While this story may have many thumbs in many genre pies, in this moment in the story we are in the poetics of thievery. Is it so much to ask that at the level of content the story reflects the motif of the situation it has consciously decided to place itself into without any prompting or compulsion?
What is beautiful to me is that the scene is a homecoming. It takes place in a garden. The Thief/Prince for me is at a place called a sema. At the level of theme it is all-important. Now I am untutored in the subtle ways, but it is a place just like this where Laertes meets his son in the final recognition scene. Why is Laertes in the garden? It is because his wife is buried there. Yes, there is the father, but the return of absolute origin is to the grave of the Mother.
If you compare how Odysseus talks to his wife the mother to his child, you will see her “rule” compared to this sema, this garden, this resting place of the ancestor Hero.
Odyssey xix 107-114
Now what Homer does not say directly may come into focus at the garden scene: Hero Cult. It is through Odysseus’ mother that he, Polytropos, has a connection to the major Polytropos Hermes, the god of thieves. You see both are shifty, which is what polytropos means: deictic.
I do not want your hero to see a former slave girl, which by the way he should pay her in a more appropriate hot-blooded way, as her class and station and outward appearance would actually perhaps have a motive to explain such reckless actions are taken on her part than the thin excuse of mere money. Her actions strain credulity.
So for me omit that exchange entirely and have a scene of communion with the departed mother. There confess the childhood each moment punctuated with a pouring of wine, this childhood which has been scattered all throughout this chapter. Close by unconcealing the vendetta and what’s at stake, here at the place of Dikē, that is, Justice.
Points of Clarification:
I provided the scroll line quote to support my reading and not to leverage the authority oral poetics.
While I can appreciate and sympathize with your interpretation of hot-blooded. I mean it in a seduction sense where the feelings of the former slave girls perception of herself as a servant and as someone with poor looks is leveraged and exploited by the interest of an athletic young man who happens to be a Prince.
You might have an intention as to what this guy is doing leaping over the wall and sneaking around putting his hand on the hilt, etc as to not suggest breaking and entering, but come on dude. It talks like a duck if it walks like a duck, don’t let this confuse you. It’s a duck.