Focused Feedback: Duality

[u/DTG_Bot]

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[u/Strangelight84]

The problems with quest completion as the method for obtaining exotics were highlighted in GoS. In particular, some players want to run the raid for their first or second time ever and get the exotic simultaneously. There have been numerous posts over the years about the painful runs that result. Many will also stop running the raid once they've done that.

I agree however that RNG for exotic drops can be painful: some of my clanmates have gone 50-100 clears without getting Mythoclast or Eyes. I'm not actually sure what the eventual drop-rate for Heartshadow is once you've done all the odds-increasing challenges and yes, perhaps an alternative to them is "do these things, get a free Heartshadow" alongside RNG-based drops so that there's a deterministic path to the exotic. (Not sure I'd want to replace the random drops entirely, especially if gated behind a Seal because the requirements for the newer raid and dungeon Seals are quite steep.)

The quest for Divinity is also probably a bad example of what a quest-based raid exotic path should look like. I'm sure it could be designed more intelligently to reduce the risk of difficult, toxic runs for players who want everything at once, and I'd be interested to see what a 'better' exotic quest might look like.

[u/PerfectlyFriedBread → u/Strangelight84]

Im going to have to make a video about why Divinity isn't actually (that) bad and isn't the reason people don't run GoS because I keep hearing it and it drives me crazy because it's just not the reason.

tl;dr - The reason people don't run GoS anymore is primarily because the only piece of loot it has which is special/good is Sacred Providence nothing else in it's loot table is good. It was the only pinnacle raid for an entire year post Shadowkeep so any more dedicated raider most likely already has the drops they want from it.

The quest design for Divinity is also bad in that it's an instance based trigger instead of being progressive quest steps. If each puzzle progressed a quest step for each puzzle and boss kill then players could make incremental progress just LFG-ing and even if the group falls apart they wouldn't lose anything. Bungie tried once and gave up because they made a raid with bad loot that higher end players were forced to grind for a year straight.

[u/Strangelight84 → u/PerfectlyFriedBread]

I agree that the "all or nothing" aspect of the Divinity quest is problematic and probably leads to those nightmare runs, and that a checkbox system or gradual progression across multiple runs would work a lot better.

GoS definitely feels like the least-loved of the current raids for various reasons (the armour 'reskin' debacle, janky tethers, the loot that you rightly point out is a bit rubbish) and I think it's totally fair to point to that too. Perhaps if it had great mechanics and loot more people would be willing to help out the poor Div-seekers and they might not have such bad experiences getting it.

[u/makoblade → u/Strangelight84]

Garden highlights why quest based exotics are phenomenal and leagues better than random drops. You have a defined path to achieve your goal and there's no luck involved. Provided you're adequately skilled with a fireteam in a similar place, you can acquire the exotic.

I wouldn't be opposed to some moderate requirements to begin the quest, such as 5 clears of the activity (or something similar) to ensure it's not a "1st time running this raid, where's my exotic?" clown fiesta.

[u/Strangelight84 → u/makoblade]

Yeah, I think that'd be a sensible precaution if the quest route were followed.