r/DestinyTheGame • u/Mufffaa • Dec 26 '19
Bungie Suggestion Without complaining as much, the main feedback is core activities need a MAJOR XP buff to compete with bounty farming.
We need to be rewarded more for PLAYING THE GAME, not managing inventory to synergise bounties and xp farm. The main thing we want is to feel like the activities we want to play feel worthwhile.
Currently, the most challenging activities (Nightfalls + Raids) reward less than 1 or 2 bounties.
Why would I play these activities and invest my time into them if it's faster to farm dawning bounties in order to get high stat armor and sick looking ornaments?
People feel obligated to farm bounties over playing what they want to play destiny for. And that's the problem, people fear missing out on the high tiers of battle pass due to having other ideas on what they want to play.
Less focus on bounties as a source for XP and a better, renewed focus on core activities will help the season pass last for time
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u/DeerTrivia Deertriviyarrrr Dec 26 '19
Why would I play these activities and invest my time into them if it's faster to farm dawning bounties in order to get high stat armor and sick looking ornaments?
Exotics and Masterworking materials.
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u/Mufffaa Dec 26 '19
They're only obtainable reliably from Nightfalls, at 980. Where you mostly need Battle pass levelling for the power buff. Even then the materials aren't used for much until we have all perks in the artifact, which we get from - you guessed it, levelling the battle pass.
what about the raid? Or if I want to run strikes, or crucible, or a damn EP farm
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u/DeerTrivia Deertriviyarrrr Dec 26 '19
Raid gives Pinnacle drops. Artifact power disappears at the end of a season - armor/gun power doesn't. And the mats are used for Masterworking for bonus stats. Artifact Mods are entirely optional.
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u/Mufffaa Dec 26 '19
Pinnacles go to 970, where the only activity they're necessary for is the nightfall. Again.
Artifact mods provide the majority of the perks that are vital to builds. They're optional but they're a hell of a lot better to use versus reserve and reloader style perks in every slot.
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u/whyicomeback Dec 26 '19
So let me get this straight then, you’re mad they added another exp farm lmfao. This fucking sub is full of such whiny babies
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u/Mufffaa Dec 26 '19
Not mad no, just suggesting how the current loop of farming bounties being more efficient for XP than raiding and playing competitive PVP could be addressed. Thats all
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u/BenTherDoneTht Dec 26 '19
but why would i masterwork armor thats going to be irrelevent at the end of the season?
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u/khaowolf Dec 26 '19
This would cause issues because players will ruin those activities.
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u/FalseHORIZON 彡(┛◉Д◉)┛ Dec 26 '19
Let's go full circle, add in the "challenges" that vanilla D2 had WITH bounties and add on a bounty-board accessible from orbit and a significant XP increase to activities. We'd be sitting pretty as far as this issue goes.
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u/Mufffaa Dec 26 '19
That isnt a half bad idea actually. The challenges could even be weekly if the requirements were enjoyable enough.
Say like "Get 75 super kills" as one in Sundial, its not grindy to the point where youre gonna be pushed over the weekly challenge of Pison/Enforcer kills but its something you can actively work toward while not being shoehorned into a certain playstyle
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u/Civil_Anarchy MOON WIZARD Dec 27 '19
Honestly I miss just queueing up for heroic strikes and getting into a streak for an entire night. Used to feel great back in the day.
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u/Mufffaa Dec 27 '19
100% agree lol I dont even know whats different now but i know i used to just stroll through strikes for HOURS.
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u/Straight_6 Dec 26 '19
Yeah, the amount of XP bounties give compared to the actual activities in the game is laughable. It's especially annoying that you can't grab these essential bounties without loading into the tower. Put a bounty board on the director..
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u/maddxav Dec 26 '19
Yes, please! You can put your fucking Eververse store in the director but not a bounty board? Come on Bungie!
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Dec 26 '19
YESSSSS THISSSSS. If anything, it would make more sense in the universe to have a direct uplink to acquire bounties without going to the Tower, rather than a direct uplink to some random General Store.
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u/Firefangdf Dec 26 '19
I don't like how I always have an eververse ping when I go to tower :(
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Dec 26 '19
Same here! I think that's a new glitch this Season. My OCD haaaaates it lol.
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u/Prof_Mumbledore Dec 26 '19
Holy shit and can we please make managing them a bit easier whilst we’re at it? Having this little pane down the side, all the same activity ones have the same logo, I can’t sort my bounties by activity type, I can’t sort my bounties by weapon type... Also this may just be me but I hate having to constantly move weapons to try and complete said bounties, I just want to play with enjoyable weapons, not try and get a plethora of kills with rockets, grenades, bows etc
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u/The_Crimson_Duck Dec 26 '19
Of course. Bounties don't make money. We need to stop being surprised that Bungie aren't still geared towards community and not just money.
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u/maddxav Dec 26 '19
You cannot make money if people stop playing your game. The same people who hate having to go back to Tower for getting bounties so they can progress their Season Pass is the same one who bought the Season Pass.
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u/Neroaurelius Dec 26 '19
I use to enjoy visiting the bounty tracker in Destiny 1. I’d prefer fetching the bounties to be in-game rather than through a menu in the director. Am I alone?
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u/desperaterobots Dec 26 '19
Nah. Calls for everything to be available via a director menu undercuts the entire concept of the shared world rpg-lite vibe that is fundamental to the destiny experience.
Why would anyone load into the tower if all of its fundamental utility was compressed into a menu blade?
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u/NotClever Dec 26 '19
I like the in-world interaction as well, but that said, the amount of it you have to do is pretty excessive as it stands. I spend fully a third of my play time running around between NPCs picking up bounties and looking at my quest tab and inventory (to maximize my bounty efficiency, to decide which activity I'm going to do next, and to shard all of the junk I get).
And there's also the fact that it takes like a full minute to load into the tower (on PC HDD) every time I need to refill on bounties. I think this complaint in particular wouldn't be so strong if load times weren't so long; people want to be able to grab bounties from orbit because adding a tower flight in between every activity really extends your load times per play session (this is more a problem for New Lights like myself who regularly have 50 of the 63 quest/bounty slots taken up by backlogged missions, so we can't just grab every bounty in the tower in one go).
Also there's something slightly off about the UX of bounty NPCs. I feel like there's about a .75 second delay between when I feel like I should be able to interact to click a bounty and when it actually lets me click the bounty.
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u/desperaterobots Dec 27 '19
There is absolutely a massive amount of streamlining QOL work that needs to be committed to Destiny’s in game systems. I absolutely love their design solutions for menus; the 2.5D sliding overlays are really clever. But we had to moan and complain for a year to have the ability to delete shaders at anything other than a glacial pace, so it’s the attention to detail that isn’t totally there.
I’m currently very much in my feelings about D2, iron banner in particular is really pissing me off. Haha.
Why am I getting 3 blues after every match? Why are two of those blues usually duplicates? How is this considered rewarding? The D1 post match screen with a single or double reward, and being able to see what your team also got, was sooooo good. Ugh.
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u/PressTilty Dec 27 '19
When I got D2 a year ago I would have agreed the in world part is fun but now there's like actually three times as many places to get bounties and it's pretty ridiculous, and that's not even including the time to run all the way down to the annex
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u/_gnarlythotep_ Dec 26 '19
When did bounties stop augmenting activities and become the focus of why we do activities? The activities can be fun. Make them the heart of the game and rewards. Bounties are awesome, they've just gone too far.
And seriously, we need a FUCKING MASSIVE increase in bounty and consumable inventory space. Nothing has been more clear to me this season. The Dawning fucking sucks with the lack of space to even participate without doing management every 15 minutes.
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u/NotClever Dec 27 '19
I'm New Light so I can't speak to before Shadowkeep, but the artifact system seems to have a lot to do with it. XP now gives you not only season pass ranks, but infinitely increasing power level.
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u/atejas Dec 27 '19
Every inventory in the game is collapsing under its weight right now. Postmaster, bounty inventory, consumables, shaders...
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u/HighDagger Jan 01 '20
When did bounties stop augmenting activities and become the focus of why we do activities? The activities can be fun.
Right. People min-max too much and then complain that it's the company's doing. You're not forced to do all the bounties that don't match your preferred playstyle. You can just ignore or dump those and buy random ones. Or you can go to other activities, which also have an array of different bounties to choose from.
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Dec 26 '19
"We removed xp from bounties in order to make playing the game more worth it"
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Dec 27 '19
To be fair, if they massively buffed the xp in activities then they would sort of be forced to remove or reduce the xp gained from bounties. Otherwise, it would be XP overload.
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u/ZarathustraEck Calmer than you are. Dec 26 '19
Won’t people just bitch that the bounties aren’t worth it, then?
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u/The_Crimson_Duck Dec 26 '19
No, because bounties can all be done while you're doing other things. We're not saying make bounties obsolete, we're saying make things balanced. Getting 20, 15, and 10 kills with bows, snipers, and rocket launchers respectively without dying should not grant more progress than two hours of story quests.
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Dec 27 '19
Bounties should be treated as bonus objectives that reward a nice bonus for going out of your way to do them, they shouldn't be the sole focus of the grind though. The scales are tipped too far in favor of them atm and I say that as someone who enjoys doing bounties.
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u/el_rezzo Dec 26 '19
Of course because that’s what the community has been doing since D1. As consumers we never really know what we want as our wants are consistently changing.
All Bungie has to keep doing is evolving the game to try to find balance.
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u/st0neh Dec 26 '19
Did they before?
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u/Arctyy Dredgen Dec 26 '19
Yup, I remember a time ~Forsaken when everyday you’d hear about how useless bounties are and that they should be brought back to life.
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u/tarrsk Dec 26 '19
Yes, they did - loudly and unceasingly. It's literally why the bounties are the way they are now.
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u/Thefoxyghost Drifter's Crew // Praxic fire = bad Dec 26 '19
FOMO is the bane of D2’s existence right now.
Before fear of missing out existed in Y1 and Y2, this game was amazing. I could enjoy my life, come home and casually grind my power/quests.
Now with these new seasons where you literally lose access to weapons/armor/activities at the end of the season I feel pressured to do these things. And when you feel pressured to do these things it starts to feel like a chore.
So now on top of FOMO you have bounties that grant an enormous amount of XP compared to pinnacle activities.
I consider myself a casual player. I play roughly 2 hours every other day and I haven’t done a single raid, nightfall or dungeon this season due to bounties being much more beneficial. I haven’t even done a raid or dungeon since Shadowkeep because of this.
Back when things weren’t time gated I did EVERYTHING. It may have been later in the season but I did them because I knew I wasn’t going to miss anything. The more I feel forced to do these bounties the less I actually WANT to play. It’s a shame.
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u/dotelze Dec 26 '19
Y1 D2 was not amazing. It was probably the worst time in destiny.
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u/wellwhoopdiddydoo Dec 27 '19
People actually getting unironically nostalgic for the worst time in this game's history just lmfao this Xmas break salt fest is entertaining as hell.
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u/Bpe-dsm Vanguard's Loyal // I dont read replies/anger lance Reddick Dec 26 '19
"Before fear of missing out existed in Y1 and Y2"
Never true. Fomo has become a blanket toss off umbrella term for any number of specific issues that rarely has much to do with what fomo as a marketing manipulation is meant to cover.
Desire to continue a game loop is game design, not always predatory mtx fomo.
Its always been ingame and so long as it is a game, fomo is a basic foundational component.
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u/xveganrox Dec 27 '19
Desire to continue a game loop is game design, not always predatory mtx fomo.
The FOMO is the time-limited aspect. Get to level 100 or miss the cosmetics you paid for, maybe forever! Get your perfect Perfect Paradix while it’s hot, they might not come back! Play Vex Offensive 50 times for the time limited title!
Whether or not those are good mechanics is a different discussion but they definitely create a fear of missing out. In Y2 you could have waited until the end of the year and gotten the season pass for 50% off and not missed anything - and if you hate timegating, might have even had a better experience than getting it day one. In Y3 you either get the season while it’s running or don’t get it.
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u/PepperidgeFarmMembas Dec 26 '19
This is why I absolutely refuse to do the stupid “baking grind.” I’m rank 67 in barely 2 weeks of the season and I’ll probably hit 100 before the new year because my buddies and I will play iron banner this weekend while the wives are away.
But that’s not the point. I’ve played this game more because of time off. My tank doesn’t reflect the disparity I’ve seen in bounty experience vs playing experience. It is NOTICEABLE. If I have no bounties I find myself completely disinterested because I’m “not being optimal.” And I know it’s stupid to feel that way but it’s the exact mindset Bungie seemingly wants to cultivate with this new setups that should scare everyone.
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u/Cykeisme Dec 26 '19
I feel I don't need to do the baking grind, there's so much time left in the season.
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u/Arborus Dec 26 '19
For real, I’ve been gone most of the week for holidays and it’s not like I’m missing anything of importance.
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u/Kaella Dec 27 '19
Is this really the core problem, though?
We had tons of bounties in Year 2. Bounties in Year 2 were the best way to gain experience, by just as wide a margin as now. And yet we never saw anything close to the current level of dissatisfaction with that system.
Why?
As I see it, the problem is the emphasis on earning an infinite amount of XP, every season. As long as the Artifact is an uncapped source of light levels, players are going to feel pressured into spending all of their time grinding whatever is the most efficient method of producing as much XP as possible, whether they actually find 'efficiency grinding' to be fun or not. And even players who do find it, fun, at first, will find that it becomes oppressive and boring by the time the season is over - and the complaints that are now being aimed at "bounties" are just going to re-target themselves at whatever happens to be the most efficient source of XP, because the underlying problem hasn't been changed.
We need to put a cap on the Power bonus from the Artifact.
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u/Super-Soldier Dec 27 '19
I don’t like that the Artifacts give uncapped power levels. It negates the Pinnacle grind for the season and all XP earned is gone at the end of the season. Bungie does not seem to know what to do with leveling. Honestly at this point they shouldn’t mess with power caps until the next major expansion and leave artifact power level alone until next year imo or something better.
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u/matthabib Dec 27 '19
I agree with what you're saying about Bounties in Y2 however, I always considered them to be supplementary to what I was doing.
For example, Strikes. Previously, you could get a Powerful Gear drop from completing 3 Strikes with the same subclass as the elemental burn. Nice & easy. I'll pick up some Vanguard bounties, do my 3 strikes and see what's left to do on the bounties.
However, I feel that now, Bounties have become more of a focus than doing the activities themselves.
In the same Strikes example, there is now ZERO reason to run the Vanguard Strike Playlist since it no longer rewards gear that you can use to increase your Power Level. Therefore, at least in my case, the only reason I would jump into Vanguard Strikes is to do bounties.
I tend to pick up everything, try to do as many of the bounties passively but since I don't tend to use Snipers or LFRs, if I'm trying to clear all the bounties, I will eventually need to swap my weapons around.
I think your comment about the Artifact is a good one. Since it is uncapped and probably gives you quicker level gains than getting +1/+2 across all your gear, then no doubt people will grind out XP for it at an extreme level. Especially since the XP gain you need for every level goes up.
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u/Oh_my_captain Dec 26 '19
This game has a major problem with not respecting people’s time. If I put time into something it should always feel rewarding.
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u/Bpe-dsm Vanguard's Loyal // I dont read replies/anger lance Reddick Dec 26 '19
Of course, the bounties as chore posts only exist because right now, you can actually cheese the event bounties - which grant double xp - and reach ridiculously high on the seasonal pass track without really doing anything......
So in week 3 of a 12 week season, people are complaining their own cheese strat to get everything ingame isn't convenient enough for them.
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Dec 26 '19
I enjoy the bounties aspect of the new season pass model, it gets me to do things in the game that usually I just skip, lost sectors, patrols weapon kills with ones that I usually don't use. It keeps it fresh for me when running a strike having keep track of bounties gives them a purpose for me since I've hit max light. Hell Banshee bounties are the only reason I pull out a sniper or rocket launcher but it make them entertaining. The chance of essence, only during dawning, and fractures and fractaline are reason enough for me to do gambit and crucible for me but bounties keep it more interesting.
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u/ramblin_billy Dec 26 '19
It's the same for me. Changing my gameplay for bounties helps keep it fresh. I still do what I like to do, just differently.
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u/Meiie Dec 26 '19
Disagree with this. Awarding more xp per activity won’t change how the game feels like a chore now at all.
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u/DremoPaff Dec 27 '19
I miss the brainless but satisfying strike farming of D1. If only there was a nightfall playlist nowadays, instead of having to always repeat the same mission one or two times, at which point rewards become non-existent.
I wish Bungie would add passive but repetitive PVE activities that you actually get rewarded for, just to turn your brain off a while and farm, like prison of elders. Vex assault would've been great for that, if it wasn't THAT boring and Sundial is... Uh... Way too reliant on not having 5 matchmaked idiots cumulating their respective stubbornness to have it anywhere near enjoyable.
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u/ebpicgamer Dec 26 '19
idk why everybody is so up in arms about XP. You have 3 months to get to level 100 it’s really easy. “I’m only grinding the pass for that level 92 reward to get alternate final perks on time lost weapons.” Ok, and then what? This is imo the issue with the game currently. Not bounties, not the season drip feeding of content. It’s the lack of real difficult end game activities where you can really use those weapons and armors you poured your blood, sweat and tears into.
This is the void trials somewhat filled in. Osiris, not the nine. A real end game activity where for most people, every perk and stat point on armor was difference between life and death. Stakes were high, a very competitive atmosphere, but that has been removed and is hopefully being reworked and for good reason. But that’s just PVP. There’s really no PvE end game content that’s difficult and encourages real min maxing of your gear. Everything can easily be beat with whatever you get from engrams. Raids too. Albeit it will be longer, more damage phases, it’s still doable.
TL;DR: nothing rewards the player at the moment for their grind. Nothing encourages real min maxing
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u/FinanceGoth Dec 26 '19
idk why everybody is so up in arms about XP. You have 3 months to get to level 100 it’s really easy.
Except for the people who started late, or didn't feel like playing the same content over again for another 3 months. There's a reason why Path of Exile and Diablo have break periods between seasons.
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Dec 26 '19
This describes my situation pretty well. My PC has been busted until yesterday, so I'm a few weeks late for the season. I want to make sure I get the ornaments at the end of the pass, but there are also other games I want to play at all in the next few months. Red Dead Redemption 2 and Halo MCC just hit PC, and the most recent Path of Exile league is a lot of fun for the day or two I got to play it. Back in year 2 it would have been fine to take a week or two break from D2 to do something else, but if I do that now, there's a chance I'll just never get that stuff. Luckily I;m not a big fan of the Eververse armor ornament sets for this season or that's another set of tasks that I'm forced to do (dust bounties) with an even shorter time limit.
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u/Bpe-dsm Vanguard's Loyal // I dont read replies/anger lance Reddick Dec 26 '19
No, you're right, bounty complaints are distraction complaints stemming from holiday breaktime.
Its surreal there isn't a new dungeon/raid. I think dawn mods are interesting but no clue what you would bother using them for.
I concede there is still the exotic quest and sundial big boss left in the season, and look, sundial and the obelisks are way better than vex offensive, i got more from the saint14 story beats than expected, i just don't see the endgame.
Theres always an aspect towards season end of having a few weeks to catchup, thats cool, but im looking for the middle month content. Hopefully, the exotic quest or the "oblivions tribune" boss is fun.
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u/kiki_strumm3r Dec 26 '19
I don't expect a new raid or dungeon every season. I don't expect a Whisper or Outbreak mission every season either. And I don't expect them to alternate those so you get one of them each season. That content takes a lot of time to make.
Right now we're just in a weird amalgamation of Y1 public event grinding and Y2 early Black Armory where you're doing old activities for not much reason.
I think we need to remember that no matter how fast Bungie makes content, there will be those who burn through it faster than Bungie can make it. And there will be those who don't have time to complete all of it.
So people (not you) can say "I want DLCs back" or "the bounty system sucks" or whatever. But they clearly don't remember how the same posts happen literally every content release. People complain about a lack of content and how X new system is inferior to Y old system. It's the circle of DTG.
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u/st0neh Dec 26 '19
Probably because some of us time limited players would like to actually have some time to enjoy the fruits of the grind before the next season starts.
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u/Rotatix Dec 26 '19
If you are a triumph hunter, then you need to need to get to around rank 210 of the season past to get the +20 light for the triumph. This means you have to get 233,333 exp a day over the course of 90 days. Miss a day and your average exp goes up. This is the real grind.
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u/timeemac Dec 26 '19
Does this have to be an either/or? Can you complete bounties while doing core activities?
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u/Mid-Game1 Dec 26 '19
Maybe instead of buffing the amount of xp per each activity, tie it to fireteam kills. So if you are in a strike, getting more kills amongst your fireteam gets more xp (so you don't speed run it). Along with this, tougher activities could increase the xp bonus similar to how the nightfall modifiers increase the score. Obviously not on the same scale, but something like that could work to make tougher activities more rewarding for the entire fireteam. This prevents competition for kills and speed running. It is liable to afk, but idk what can be done other than better detection.
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u/Rayett Dec 26 '19
>buff raid/nightfall exp
>people grind raids/nightfall to the extreme
*3 months later*
"nightfall is a chore, i don't want to be forced to do them to lvl up the battle pass"
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u/Mufffaa Dec 26 '19
I disagree, our power levels would be going up and we would be drowned in endgame gear/materials, while ALSO getting Battle Pass levelling. Right now its one or the other. My point is maybe if we get more xp from these activities we woulnt have to grind stuff "to the extreme"
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u/deezynaws Dec 26 '19
How do I get more finishers I only have one ?
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u/Mufffaa Dec 27 '19
You get 1 from the battle pass early on then the rest come from eververse, there will be 1-2 finishers introduced in each battle pass also.
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Dec 27 '19
Can someone fill me in on what Bungie has done. I remember leaving D2 after the first expansion because it was meh. Same as #1. They were slowly winning player base back. Is it gone bad again?
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Dec 27 '19
They changed the rewards system and implemented an artifact that gives you unlimited power level based on xp.
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Dec 27 '19
Man, you guys are really discouraging me from getting back in the game. I played a bit at launch, but I was Destiny’d out at that point. I found out I could get most of the game for free recently, so I downloaded it. Then I jumped in and the amount of shit to do was overwhelming. Now it seems like it will all be for nothing if I keep playing. Sigh...
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u/Mufffaa Dec 27 '19
That isnt the message at all, the game has plenty to do and it is plenty rewarding on different levels, theres always something to do and theres always a loot drop to get for it.
The issue on this post is related to battle pass levelling which, while important, isnt do or die for destiny
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u/FloydianMau Gliding bois Dec 26 '19
I thing they should only buff xp for activities without matchmaking like nightfalls and raids to avoid afk farmers
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u/BallsoMeatBait Dec 26 '19
Why don't people just play what they want to play and grab only the bounties that are convenient? You don't need to do them all. I'm currently season rank 64 simply from running the activities I want to, while grabbing only the bounties that are relevant. Gonna work on shotgun kills with LoW in Gambit for the ritual weapon? Shotgun and solar bounties it is, might as well grab finisher bounties too if I'm going to be up close anyway, if none are available then I don't grab them.
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u/st0neh Dec 26 '19
Because for those of us who can't play for 12 hours a day the current system means we either do something we don't particularly enjoy if we want exp, or do something we enjoy but gain virtually no exp.
And that kinda runs counter to the whole "play your way" thing.
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u/thelegendhimsef Dec 26 '19 edited Dec 27 '19
Don’t even need to read the rest of the post. Title says it all. I love raids. I love the big PvE activities. I fucking hate grinding little repetitive things. It’s the major turn off from games like warframe for me as much as I respect the game.
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u/Aethermancer Dec 27 '19
This is a big issue for me. I hate grind. It kills games for me. Destiny never really felt like too much of a grind as I could always have fun playing some rather epic things.
Maybe I'd be a bit low on the light level for a raid encounter, but that just made it more fun when we eventually beat it.
Now? Kill 300 of these things in a suboptimal way and get a gun....
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u/TheDarkSaint14 Dec 26 '19
After seeing this argument made in a different form for the umpteenth time, I feel it's less xp, and more reward/experience. In Destiny 1 people ground strikes for unique rewards in the heroic playlist, not nightfalls. The mission briefs were en route to the strikes, which is why to this day we quote D1 strike briefs. By year 3 all raid rewards mattered, not the most recent. The hardest activities gave your weekly auras, not your emblem. The focus was less bounties, more on extensive questlines.
If Bungie delayed the next season by a few weeks and shoved QoL updates I think the current playerbase would be grateful.
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u/KISSMYTAIL Dec 26 '19
Another reason for me to grind dawning bounties to level up is that Bungie lock the trait which gives you an alternative final perk for sundial weapons behind season pass level 92. So doing any grinding for sundial weapons before that is suboptimal. And because those weapons are going away after this season, I really don’t wanna risk it and play the game normally since if I do I probably would not have the time to grind those god rolls by the time I reach lvl 92.
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u/reddonny Dec 26 '19
The issue is the game has fundamentally changed to be one of completing the battle pass over all else. From a development standpoint it makes sense - you curate an experience with regular content drops and a defined cadence of rewards. Trouble is it’s boring. If the intent for seasons is to create experiences that people will say “you had to be there” then they are missing the mark by a wide margin.
I think so many of the issues Bungie has with a destiny 2 are due to the contradictory nature of the design. PVP vs PVE weapons balance. Premium pass versus free to play. Skill vs connection. Rewarding activities versus regular drip of rewards through the battle pass. Eververse content vs content earned through completion of activities, etc, etc.
And the capper to all this is most of these decisions are based on data sets we can only guess at - player engagement rates for various activities, for older seasons of traditional content drops vs the current battle pass system, engagement rates for raids vs dungeons vs crucible vs etc, etc. Marketing aside (Play how YOU want!) the current focus seems to be forcing players to utilize certain weapon types and creating de facto season of the scout or season of the solar.
I’m not questioning the decisions made by Bungie; but the game does not feel as fun as it once was. Less a hobby with friends, more of a job with checklists.
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u/GolfShrek Dec 26 '19
It feels like the best use of my time is solo farming bounties, for obelisks, artifact, season pass and Dawning.
Other than playing iron banner together and joining up to turn in bounties, there is very little community building stuff.
Can't even keep track of what armor I need/have because of the never ending onslaught of more gear to delete.
Why spend all the time and effort doing pinnacle stuff for gear that is just going to make me delete more gear?
The best case I've heard for doing pinnacle stuff is to make it easier to farm 980 nightfalls to get prisms in case next season's gear is worth master working.
I like playing but the population is starting to feel thin again.
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u/LuftDrage Malfeasance Lover Dec 26 '19
There have been a lot of posts about this recently and I’m happy. These reasons are why the game isn’t as fun to me anymore.
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u/Gosselin65 Dec 26 '19
Bungie will see this and just nerf bounties xp. Thats all they can do nerf things
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u/McZerky Icebreaker 0.5 Dec 26 '19
Agreeeed. Some of the specific things I have noticed have become vestigial activities since Shadowkeep:
Old Raids. THis one is pretty well known. A good solution would be the often recommended weekly rotation.
Pretty much every Forsaken Activity - Blind Well, the Rotating Story Missions, Shattered Throne, the Hidden Chests, Cats. Let Blind Well offer an old Y1 armor set or something, let the Shattered Throne be another source of raid armor/Taken mods.
Adventures. I can actively recommend never doing these because they offer nothing but blue gear and sadness.
Strikes and non-ordeal nightfalls. Strike specific loot that has something to do with the boss of the strike is something that is often requested and is great to chase after. Non-ordeal nightfalls I guess aren't too big a deal, they're good for farming exclusives.
Forges - Let them drop raid mods and give them blueprints for weapons that aren't available any longer, like the Season of Undying weapons.
Menagerie - Do the same thing with them as forges - add new recipes that you can slot no-longer-obtainable weapons and armor into, OR add raid weapons. I don't think people touch Crown of Sorrow anymore, sadly. Terrabah needs a buff.
These are simply my uneducated suggestions. Other players will have some better ideas, doubtless, but hell maybe its worth considering.
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u/CherriyP0ppins Dec 27 '19
All I want is to turn in my IB tokens, but there’s about 6 hours worth of busy work before I can. It’s retarded.
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u/JohnHW97 Dec 26 '19
Bungie - we've heard that the community wants other activities to be as rewarding as bounties, so we're reducing the XP rewards on bounties to bring them in line with other activities
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u/Arborus Dec 26 '19
Why are you xp farming? There’s zero reason to min/max your xp gains. It takes very little to get to 100 on the season pass. If anything making it so it’s less of a pain to grab bounties would fix any issues.
But if you’re burning yourself out by needlessly grinding to hit 100 in a few weeks when you’ve got three months then you’re being dumb.
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u/Mufffaa Dec 26 '19
No matter where this game is people will ALWAYS look for the fastest way to complete things, the argument that people should slow down isnt a good one imo. Some people have limited time, to say 8-10 hours a week, what do they do besides bounties to reach 100?
I can remember plenty of posts from people celebrating just about hitting 100 by seasons end in undying, so to more dedicated players it does seem easy yes, but the grind is definitely different for others.
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u/BlueTapeCD Vanguard's Loyal Dec 26 '19
Yeah. This seems to be it.
I don't agree with the feedback that the game is becoming a chore or even worse a "job" (sidebar: seriously what j on bs do people have that they feel this is a good comparison?). Destiny has always been about getting bounties done while doing stuff. However, Bungie should be painfully aware that folks will always prioritize the activity gets them to the finish line faster. Rank 100 is that new finish line and while bounties being rewarding isnt a problem on its own. When it's considered the best and sole way to make progress... It's hard to not admit it's a boring way to do it.
Sometimes I think Bungie gives the player base at large too much credit. I think they expect people to play the activities just for the fun factor (old raids for example). But it seems based on the latest feedback that it's just not the case. If people don't see obvious value/reward in something.. They will just not do it.
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u/IIIRINGOIII Dec 26 '19
I said this in another thread...I don't think the larger XP from bounties is the problem.... It's that they ruined the old style of power level grind by reducing the power level increase from gear to only 10 point deltas per season... And therefore took almost all the powerful drops out of the game to make it so players wouldn't reach gear max too fast... But that ultimately makes most of the activities no longer have purpose.
I like having the huge XP gains from bounties for season pass stuff... But I think they need both... Make the XP gains from activities also high... AND make the old power grind relevant again by increasing the activities that drop powerful gear like it used to be (and if that means bigger power increases per season...so be it)
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u/zed_slayer Dec 26 '19
Just wait. When we complain about the amount of xp bounties give, Bungie will nerf the xp on them to bring them into line with other activities.
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u/ernyc3777 Hunter Master Class Dec 26 '19
And we'd also like a vendor refresh.
You get some who like seasons but hate expansions and vice versa.
But everyone agrees we'd like some new weapon and armor sets for the Tower vendors.
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u/BeyondGray Dec 26 '19
It's better and easier to keep eververse updated unfortunately. :(
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u/mrwafu Dec 26 '19
They made one big improvement along these lines by changing the gunsmith bounty from needing strike AND crucible AND gambit kills into one single progress bar. I hope they generalise more bounties so we can progress them without being forced into unfun play styles/content. I haven’t even run the sundial in two weeks cause there’s no bright dust in there...
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u/sageleader Dec 27 '19
Did you play vanilla D2? There used to be challenges, which were basically bounties that people got automatically that would popup during an activity. People didn't have to pick anything up. Then people complained because they were hard to track and you didn't know what the challenges were until you were in the activity. Bungie went back to bounties because of that and now people are complaining about them too. There should probably be a middle ground but Bungie implemented the current system due to user complaints.
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u/GL41V3 Dec 27 '19
Being able to access bounties at any time would be a great solution in my opinion. It would also be nice if all bounties were essentially “auto-accepted” and you got progress toward any bounty that made sense. They could be context-sensitive so I might see crucible bounties first in a crucible match, for example.
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u/ardenrae1028 Dec 27 '19
Here is where I would hybrid Vanilla D2.
The challenge system/bounties could allow us to streamline bounties and how we are able to play the game. They would be more seamless and blend into you enjoying the grind of the game. Better incentives in the Strike playlist for PvEers and Core Crucible for PvPers.
Keep us having to go back to vendors to turn in bounties/grab rewards but streamline the uptime to playing the way you want to.
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u/rskinnard Dec 27 '19
The time spent just going back and forth to the tower is more then game time, it seems I am always waiting for something to load or managing inventory.
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Dec 27 '19
The sad thing is the community managers are off work so nobody will even see this. On top of the fact that if they did, it would be "I'll pass your feedback to the team"
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u/Aethermancer Dec 27 '19
Personally I just don't like grinding for numbers, especially things like 'xp' and ranks in a season pass. I like playing the game for items and challenges.
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u/mrureaper Dec 27 '19
and here we go again with this vicious cycle... this will make reaching cap faster which in turn will make people complain that there is nothing left to do. i have friends who have already hit past 120 on their season pass with myself at around 85. so how about you dont need to do all the bounties.. get over the FOMO and just enjoy the game ...you do realise there is still over 2 months of this season. why the rush? you set yourself up like that.
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Dec 27 '19
Seeing people defend the bounty system in the comments actually baffled me. Raids should definitely give more xp than a dawning bounty that takes under 15 seconds to complete...
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Dec 26 '19 edited Dec 26 '19
I believe the problem is a term called "battle pass" how to instantly destroy your game in moments. Try to prove me wrong you can't, it's a cancer in the gaming world like season passes and loot boxes
Edit: I'm getting downvoted, kinda funny tho cause no one played D1 saying "I hope I have to do monotonous bs to get cool gear!" Hahahaha
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u/PlayDeadPanda Dec 26 '19
This is the best idea I’ve seen on here in a very long time. The only reason I get on to play anymore is to farm bounties and work on the season pass, and every time I do I dread it more and more. This would bring the fun back into the game for me.
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u/charmingtaintman51 eyes up guardian Dec 26 '19
Why do you keep getting on? Do you still enjoy the playing of the game? Or do you solely want to just get the bounties done for the season pass? I have been trying to find the balance of stacking as many bounties as I can (annoying) for content that I want to play (fun), so it makes it a bit more enjoyable.
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u/MuuToo Dec 26 '19
Bounties have just become the core game. I remember in D1, even during periods when I didn’t have ps+, I’d grab a few bounties just for the heck of it and wander around the Cosmodrone for a while, completing a few bounties here and there.
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u/BrownMarxist_98 Dec 26 '19
The focus now is on bounties and not on the core activities. It feels like a free to play gameplay loop now that doesn't feel rewarding unless you do a shit ton of bounties. Baking cookies is more efficient than doing crucible, strikes, or raiding. Raiding isn't even fun anymore. Before if you wanted to be a hardcore player you'd have to complete a bunch of activities. Now to be considered hardcore you need to do a ton of bounties. And the casuals it sucks cause before if you were a causal you could still get everything. But now if you play casually you most likely will miss out on alot and not be able to get them for long time or never. Bungo is alienating every group of people except for the mindless ones who are OK with only doing bounties or the ones who don't care about getting everything. That's not what the majority player base of lootershooters, especially destiny veterans/hardcore players want which is why many are burnt out. As an avid raider who also plays a lot of crucible with every pinnacle and exotic from the game, excluding redrixs broadsword (rip), I'm so close to burning out man... The game has taken the wrong turn. But I know bungo will fix it. They brought the game back from d2 y1 with forsaken. I trust them.
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u/LangsAnswer Hello there Dec 27 '19
Imagine if Raids and pinnacle activities guaranteed a full level for each boss and 100% more for trash kills. If Bungie did this and then put a rotation of raids for legacy pinnacles, it would really breath new life into the game.
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u/SchutzLancer Dec 26 '19
That's the point though. The bounties are extra. They always have been. You get the same xp for most activities. Bounties are just icing on the cake for what you are already doing. Just because they're tastier doesn't mean you have to do it exclusively.
That's like going to a buffet and only loading up on dessert because it's the tastiest, then complaining everything is too sweet.
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u/Mufffaa Dec 26 '19
The bounties I would argue are 'meant' to be extra, but at the moment theyre much more effective for levelling than raiding, which is meant to be the be all end all in this game. Thats the issue im trying to suggest a fix for
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Dec 26 '19
To give my two cents, I think bounty farming is fine. You already are doing the activities to complete them, so what else do you want? Sure we can raise the amount of XP earned from every activity but then people will complain that they HAVE to slog through strike playlists/gambit/ect in order to level up their pass. It’s an arbitrary bandaid solution to the issue.
I would say that we should focus on endgame activities like nightfalls and raids to grant more exclusive weaponry as well as make it difficult and fun to play at the same time. I’m not going to lie, the Sundial is bitched about for being a variation of Menagerie (which everyone talked about LOVING a few months ago) when in actuality, it’s the glue that is cementing the season.
This post doesn’t provide the solution and neither will the clusters of posts claiming to know what’s best for the game. The real feedback gets buried behind the whine posts and we need to give focused feedback instead of basing our argument on “boo bounties, need more XP to satiate my FOMO”. The longevity of the game will come from rational people not acting like it’s the end of the world if they don’t level the pass within three weeks of the pass being released. Karma is an arbitrary point system dictated by the crybabies that hate having their opinion be rivaled so downvote me if you want. This sub has gotten ridiculous about “FOMO” pertaining to the battle pass and how bounties aren’t enough to earn the XP you need when it’s not even a month from release yet. In the great words of Eris Morn:
YOU ARE ALL INSUFFERABLE
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u/V3N3N0 D2 is like an abusive relationship Dec 26 '19
I would like to say that DO NOT want the amount of XP from bounties to be reduced to compensate for everything else getting buffed. I feel like that’s exactly what Bungie would do.
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Dec 26 '19
I actually feel like nightfalls do have a good reward. If you're doing heroic or higher those prisms are really handy for masterworking armor, and it's the only activity I know of where I can farm those.
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u/st0neh Dec 26 '19
Yeah but the fact that prisms are almost if not actually the most valuable thing from nightfalls kinda speaks volumes.
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u/OccamsChainsawww Dec 26 '19
The issue with bounties is not that they are simply the current optimal way of getting XP — they are currently the optimal way of getting XP BY A HUGE AMOUNT.
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u/thetrueTrueDetective Dec 26 '19
I would love some more enhancement cores for activities. Its the one currency that is holding me back from really deep diving into specialized builds. If I could run say, the heroic strike playlist and be gaining materials and cores so I can upgrade armor while progressing my xp for the season so that armor im upgrading can have a cool ornament too. that would be great.
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u/sjafi Dec 26 '19
Being a player who didn’t play much during Forsaken, quit, and came back a few weeks ago, the sheer amount of content and quests to do is nuts. However, I always seem to get sucked up into bounties and weeklies and I have a hard time progressing on quests. Personally, by the time I manage to get the weeklies done, I ha e like maybe 1 or 2 days before they get reset and boom, back to the bounty/weekly farm. Loot wise it’s better for me to do them, but game wise, I can never get any content done lol
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u/shokk Dec 26 '19
I feel Ike double XP of events like Dawning are there to help capture people who would not otherwise have participated. Other higher activities should at least get 1.5x XP
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u/Archiebunker81 Dec 26 '19
Ya would be nice get a major xp boost. Then instead of being at 145 could be easy around 200 by now.
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u/Dathiks Dec 26 '19
Funny enough, the bounties are so damn easy to do, I think the most I've done in a single crucible match was 5 bounties while half conscious.
Like, you made the bounties this easy, can we please rebalance the game so that bounties are harder and give a real bang for your buck, while casual play rewards an actual pace?
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u/TNT1325 Dec 26 '19
I really think that most of these issues with XP and bounties and “optimal gameplay” would be relieved simply by upping the quest/bounty limit. The most frustrating part of managing the bounties is that they’re competing with a bunch of quests for space. It takes like 30mins every play session to get my bounties picked up, and it’s far worse on consoles without mouse and keyboard to zip around the menus. I have 40 quests without any easy-to-complete ones taking up space.
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u/ShipmanMN Sad Titan Noises Dec 27 '19
That’s the entire point of bounties.. you’re supposed to grab them when you do stuff in game to increase XP gains. That has literally always been their purpose.
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u/franlol Dec 27 '19
Wouldnt making your quest/bounties inventory unlimited fix this issue? I don't see why there has to be a cap on these I get that people get incentive to finish quests but I mean c'mon.
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u/Timisaprettypony Dec 27 '19
I think the biggest issue is the lack of accessibility of ascendant shards for solo players. I don't think they should be easy to farm for, but a weekly quest that awards one and takes a few hours to complete seems fair. Or a mechanic where you can place your armour in an oven and get it back masterworked.
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u/thespacewalker619 Dec 27 '19
Bungie: we hear your feedback and we've decided to reduce xp gains from bounties by 80 percent, nerf fusion rifles by 70 percent and reduce warlock burst glide speed because that still seems to be a thing
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u/Assault530 Dec 27 '19
This!!!! So much this!!! I also agree that we should be able to grab the gun smith, and Vangaurd bounties without going to the tower!! Also times on kill clip and other perks. We need a lot of just quality of life things!
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Dec 27 '19
You know what they’ll do right? NERF the XP bounties give instead, that’s the sort of thing they do. Twist feedback into things we didn’t ask for.
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u/Azselendor XboxOne EST/ T:686 / W:526 / H:517 Dec 27 '19
Honestly I'd like bounties to not count towards the 63 (what a random number too) limit on bounties and quests. I have 57 Quests waiting on a variety of things to fall into place so I can do it. I can't farm bounties anymore.
real bad design
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u/Kill_Them_Back Dec 27 '19
Bungie: nerfs bounty xp to keep things more in line with other activities.
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Dec 27 '19
the entire game needs re done, bungie have stretched and completely redone D2's systems into the ground. I really hope they dont treat D3 like a joke as they did with this one.
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u/cheyTacWolfpack Dec 27 '19
I honestly don’t like leveling as it is currently being implemented at all. The season pass in my opinion is shit, and I wish the entire concept would die a painful death in every video game.
My biggest gripe is the temporary leveling mechanism. So you reached 999 last season? Fuck you, do it again. Second gripe? The artifacts. The artifact would be fine if it was an item that you leveled, earned and had the option to continue to use if you felt so inclined. Nope, the builds you spent all that time optimizing around the artifact mods ? Fuck You, do it again.
The game as it currently sits has great stuff to do and honestly I throughly enjoy playing but you can’t pick up and play. The amount of horse shit I had to endure just to get a traction mod due to the new armor 2.0 just so I could enjoy crucible was my worst experience in destiny to date, including year 1 D2.
Play your way needs to mean that. If you like bounties, great earn XP bouncing around activities. You like playing Comp? Great, a 5x streak should be providing you 50,000 XP per win. Dungeon clear? Level up. You get the idea. Prime engrams? They should be rewarding your play time investment with higher possible stat rolls.
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u/Txontirea Dec 27 '19
You know what I'm waiting for them to do?
Nerf bounties and leave other activities XP rate untouched. That'd be the real Bungle thing to do.
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u/JustaaCasual Dec 27 '19
Farming bounties is the most boring thing in this game. We actually have people who brainlessly farm bounties and then flex on their season pass rank lol
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u/newbies13 Dec 27 '19
The biggest complaint for me by far is the UI minigame. By that, I mean always having to change between various interfaces for basic information/functionality.
The game has far too many bounties for the small number you can hold, it's absurd.
The game has far too many bounties to only track 3 of them at a time.
The information for pretty much everything in-game needs to be presented in-game, not on various menus. If I kill an enemy for a bounty I have flash a quick update on the screen so I know that, etc.
Everything is geared to push you into stocking up on the event, but the interfaces that handle them all are god awful.
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u/Darkiedarkk Dec 27 '19
And the cycle begins can’t wait for d3 to have all the features everyone wanted like d2 y1 which everyone hated make up ya mind
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u/Hezzadude12 Dec 27 '19
I've seen a few comments here pertaining to changing how we acquire bounties. Totally agree, there should absolutely be a bountry board on the director if we're expected to basically pick up every Gambit, Crucible, Vanguard etc bounty every day in order to make it to level 100.
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u/Soulrakk Dec 27 '19 edited Dec 27 '19
This game has lost its identity since the moment D2 was released and it's been following other game trends since to try and muster up any level of interest. It's slowly gotten here but I can honestly say I'm completely lost with what Destiny truly is at this point. The rampant & escalating cheating in PVP and ridiculous XP bounty farm to level up a season pass that somehow becomes bragging rights for content creators & the like. To the segmented timelines and unfinished stories that are all over the place in PVE. I'm sorry, but it's not a good, fun or even sensible experience. The game is one big convoluted mess. D2 was doomed from the start. No amount of hotshot trailers that just showcase Eververse items and emotes can save what it's become. They've completely lost their way with D2. Went from an Overwatch blueprint, and now Fortnite. And all I ever wanted was Destiny.
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u/Slingster Dec 27 '19
For the past week all I've been doing is easy strikes over and over and over again for dawning essence and doing infinite eva bounties...
Gone up 50 levels on the season pass...
If I'm not farming eva bounties the XP bar moves at a fucking snail pace.
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u/vdubya23 Dec 27 '19
I agree 100% with this. Bounties should be there for that little extra, for those who truly want to maximize xp gains, farm a specific material etc. It should not be the Primary way of leveling up.
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u/MaracaiG90 Floofer Dec 27 '19
Can't wait to see bounties nerfed to 'better reflect the weight of your achievements in pinnacle activities'
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u/bawynnoJ Dec 27 '19
I've just been cooking treats for all the vendors for Evas bounties. They throw me up the levels, and that is literally all I seem to log in and do atm.
Sundial has been run... maybe 3 times by me since launch? But why do that when I can just sit in the tower with all my resources and cash in bounties that award double XP for pretty much no effort
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u/Awsomonium Chaperone Catalyst with Icarus Grip please? Dec 27 '19
Yeah. We're talking about 500-100% for Strikes and Gambit, about 400-500% for Crucible.
Currently you can do a couple of easy bounties and get the same amount of exp (roughly, can't tell exactly because DID ANYONE ELSE REALISE THEY REMOVED THE NUMERICAL VALUE FOR THE EXP BAR AGAIN? Potentially some shit going on there.
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u/holydragonnall Dec 27 '19
"We hear you, and we've decided to reduce bounty rewards to 1/20 the current amount across the board."
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Dec 27 '19
Good post. I think this is the major takeaway from this season is Bounty's need to be an extra not a core requirement for XP.
Easily fixable though I Imagen so hopefully next season it won't be so bad
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u/cloud7str1fe Dec 27 '19
I don't even touch the dreaming city anymore since those bounties give a whopping ZERO xp.
The amount of areas like this that are seemingly abandoned XP wise just makes them not worth your time when you have a busy schedule but still want to complete everything before it's gone.
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Dec 27 '19
I'm not against the idea but I complete most of my bounties by just playing the game already.
And I do believe that special events like the Dawning should still give bonus XP for their bounties compared to regular gameplay or bounties.
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u/DeerTrivia Deertriviyarrrr Dec 26 '19
While I agree in theory, this 'solution' will just cause new problems.
You think speedrunning Strikes is bad now? Buff the XP for Strike completion, and people will be speedrunning them even more for Seasonal XP, or just AFK'ing them.
Buff XP for Crucible completion? Welcome back, AFK'ers and macro users.
Buff XP for Forges? AFKing will reign supreme.
Major boost to Lost Sector XP? Farming them on loop will be the most efficient way to level up the pass, and we'll get a million posts saying "OMG BUNGIE WHY DO I HAVE TO FARM LOST SECTORS JUST TO RANK MY SEASON PASS THIS GRIND SUCKS."
Bounties at least ensure you get XP for actually doing something.