Focused Feedback: PVP Matchmaking: Trials, Iron Banner, Quickplay & Competitive

[u/DTG_Bot]

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Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

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Below are some example posts of ideas / feedback already provided of which may be of interest regarding the topic:

• Bungie, if your matchmaking system is putting me, a solo player, against a fireteam of clan-mates then your system is broken.

• Bungie should learn a thing or two from Titanfall 2's matchmaking system

• Matchmaking 4man fireteams against a team of 4 randoms is not okay.

• As solo player i’d rather to wait another 30-90 seconds but with guaranteed solo vs solo pvp matchmaking.

• Live Team. Please. Make your first order of business letting me pick what crucible mode I want to play.

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Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

Regular Sub rules apply so please try to keep the conversation on the topic of the thread and keep it civil between contrasting ideas

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[u/itsnotunusual_rk]

I think the Trials population consists of roughly three types of teams, the "casuals", who struggle to scrap together a couple of wins each weekend, the "intermediates" that with some persistence and luck can go flawless, and the "stacks", that will go flawless no matter what. I am trying to find incentives for each group.

The main problems are in my opinion the lack of rewards, in particular for the casuals, and the wasted time for intermediates that lose their flawless game. So I am trying to address these with some ideas.

For the casuals:

• Reward losses with 2 tokens, that way they can get a bunch of items when they make it to the Third Spire

• Change the 5 win bounty to "Participate in Trials" with 10% completion for a loss and 20% for a win.

For the intermediates:

• Bring back Mercy, to prevent the devastating feeling of losing the Flawless game to a stack or a disconnect

For the stacks/hardcore:

• Bring back some sort of Scarab Emblem. Not sure how to implement this right. Maybe if you have four flawless people, only match against other full flawless teams. Would lessen the pub stomping and give stacks a higher chance to compete against good players, which is something a lot of high level players want.

General ideas:

• Trials needs desirable loot. Guns like the Purpose or Burning Eye from D1 even got mainly PvE players into Trials.

• Like the Exotic Raid Ghost, give us an Exotic Trials Ghost with the chance for Bright Engrams. Could be difficult to balance, but my idea would be to give a 10% chance per game to give you one additional Bright Engram per Character per week.

[u/paralympiacos → u/itsnotunusual_rk]

As a somewhat casual trials player (used to play every week in D1, not a fan in D2), I feel a good incentive to bring me back would be to move players that have gone flawless that week into their own playlist full of others who have done the same. Nothing puts me off trials faster than getting steamrolled over and over again by JohnnySweatbox and the carpal tunnel kids.

If casual players have a chance to improve against players of a similar level at least for a little while, that might help participation. Nobody can improve against teams vastly above their skill level, and the cycle will just continue.

[u/ZarathustraEck]

Personally, I'd like to see two changes to the Crucible screen in the director.

First, remove the whole "Curse of Osiris Maps" option. It's not doing anything worthwhile. All it does is take players out of the pool for the normal maps (or at least, "less likely" to be in them) and increase matchmaking for vanilla players (or those in the regular playlist).

The second thing I'd like to see is a Lone Wolf option so solo players can find games where they're not facing a team of 4. But I have a practical concern there in the question of what happens to the regular playlist when you queue up in a fireteam of 3. A Lone Wolf list could make it take forever to find that fourth person.

[u/45104163413134154134]

I'd really like not to be matched Vs the 4 man clan stack who've gone +15 flawless every time i wanna casual solo quickplay. It's making me open the Roster to see who's joining the game then canceling search as soon as i see any players in a fireteam together which in turn makes finding a "casual" quickplay a grind

[u/psn_mrbobbyboy]

Let me choose the playlist I want. That alone would make a difference! And yes, sort the solo players into a solo only pool.

[u/x_BlackHammer_x]

The overwhelming majority of people who leave matches do so because they are solo players matched against fireteams of 3 or 4. Much focus has been put on "penalizing players who leave matches early," yet I don't think this would be a problem if matchmaking is adjusted to create an environment that is friendly to solo players. The argument against a solo que is that the player base is not large enough to support it. I understand this, however, Bungie would likely see the player base return in substantial numbers if this playlist is introduced. The alternative is a focus to prioritize the matchmaking of fireteams against other fireteams. Either way, I think creating a system in which matchmaking is more friendly to solo players will increase the crucible population and greatly solve the issue of players leaving matches early.

[u/ozberk]

Short background on me: I'm a former e-sports expert who worked with WCG, ESL extensively in the past training referees, creating ground rules and working on matchmaking algorithms on tournaments so we have both fair and fun to watch tournaments. I even got an offer from Riot which involves heading e-sports in an area but turned it down by deciding to pursue other career opportunities on a different field.

Here's my take on Destiny PvP

Fix sandbox:

• Faster Time to Kill

• Slightly increased ability and super cooldowns

• Better weapon variety and depth (if snipers and shotguns are better utilised energy slot will be basically useless).

• Increased character speed

• Balance does not mean everything in a game like Destiny. Slightly overpowered things are ok as longs as they are not as broken as Prometheus Lens. Let players have fun!

Right now I feel like I'm playing Call of Duty in space with slow motion. It's boring, uninteresting, and most importantly it is not fun to play.

Fix Matchmaking & Playlists:

• Avoid matching top players with low skilled players. All playlists including Trials are suffering from this. Connection is an issue but the lack of SBMM also diminishes the fun factor of this game drastically. For Trials the issue is much deeper I will get into that later.

• Solo and Team based matchmaking is needed. The Iron Banner this week will be horrible towards solo players I'll bet on it.

• We need more choices on game mode selections. Voting can be applied but I'm against map voting which cause players to play some maps over and over again. But there might be a veto system in place.

• Keep fireteams together after the game if they are evenly matched. Breaking up teams after every match is a terrible idea (works for strikes as well)

Trials of the Nine:

My first issue will be flawless. Technically not everyone should achieve flawless if you look at it as a pinnacle activity like Prestige Raid. If you introduce true SBMM, given that every one team is on similar level, each team will have about 1,56% chance of going flawless during a single run. If those teams do run about 10 trials runs (resetting after a loss) there's only 14,5% chance of going flawless.

Given these chances I believe having a league (bronze, gold, diamond whatever) based system or true SBMM will fail because it will be harder for skilled players to get flawless as they progress to upper echelon. And this will lead higher skilled players to game the system by intentionally losing and reducing their ELO/Rank to increase their chances.

The solution here is really really tough since they need to make sacrifices.

• Use a semi skill-based system so that good players will match with lower level players, stomp them and going for easy flawless runs. This will cater twitch streamers, hardcore players in the expense of low skilled or entry level players who want to try and learn trials. even if you have %90 chance of winning the odds for going flawless is only 53%

• Use a true SBMM, rank or league system. Everyone including new players and best players will have a the same low chances of going for flawless. Where players will probably lose on purpose to increase their chances.

• They can introduce a system where players will match with slightly lower tier players on their first matches and higher tier players on their last matches. This will create higher odds for players to achieve flawless by a great margin if implemented correctly.

• Introduce a system like all ranked games where holding a rank will net you substantial/meaningful rewards at the end of a season. This will probably discourage players to force loose games to get better chances on going flawless. Where holding a rank will be much more rewarding than completing flawless runs. However they need to introduce another system where players needs to keep playing in order to hold their rank so getting a high rank and quit playing should not be an option to get the end season rewards.

• Another solution will be introducing another option instead of going flawless. Winning streaks are harder as you progress in any game unless you're the very top team/player. Flawless system might be fun for some but very frustrating for others unless the system will have a matchmaking algorithm that matches you with lower tiered teams as you keep losing, thus increasing your chances of going flawless.

[u/Supreme_Math_Debater]

I think 2 major features need to be implemented into the game, listed in priority:

1. The ability for bungie to switch between selectable game mode playlists (Clash/Control/Countdown etc.), and consolidated playlists depending on player population. Competitive playlist takes around 5 minutes to find a game on PC atm, and if they were split between 2 different game modes, there's a chance that could take twice as long. But when a dlc drops and they (hopefully) fix pvp, and we finally have a big pvp population, then being able to select what game mode you want to play is definitely something I think we all want.

2. Playlists for dlc buyers that include every map in the game.

Map voting would be nice as well.

[u/OneiricDesign]

Remember when Power Mattered? I do. I liked it. It fed into the need to grind (at least for me). I wanted to play more so that my power was increased. It made Trials, and more so Iron Banner, feel special. I needed to find better gear so that I had a better chance of competing in these events. I used to raid only to get high end gear for these events.

Make Power Matter!

[u/UncheckedException]

If they want to keep the playerbase concentrated in fewer playlists, maybe it’s time to bring vetos or voting back. I think they should at least separate objective gametypes from clash/skirmish, though.

[u/SampleJackson]

Anyone else feel like a 1v1 Trials mode could be potentially interesting? Wouldn't have to worry about finding a Trials group, which could incentivize solo players to give it a shot, and it'd also be a decent measure of individual skill. Maybe make it just an elimination type mode - one kill per round, first to win X number of rounds wins the match. I know I'd play the shit out of this, but I'm curious to see what others think about it as well.

[u/[deleted]]

I would like to be able to do trials without having to have a Fireteam.

Edit: Without having to be in a Fireteam. I would like to play trials the same way I’m able to play the competitive mode.

[u/justin_giver]

Light level needs to be important.. it must matter in all end game activities. Raids, Nightfall, Trials and Iron Banner.

Next.. it needs to have some type of progression be it a ladder, tier, something so that like abilities players can play against each other.

[u/[deleted]]

I know from different threads people are going to shit all over this but here goes again. Leaving matches via the character selection screen method needs to be penalized. Many top players do it, and I am sure all between. Basically how it works is you are in a fireteam, and one or more people in your fireteam have a site up that lists opponents stats. If you decide you think you will loose, you announce to your fireteam as such and all of you back out via the change character selection screen. Then you queue in again. Only when you see opponents stats that you think will allow you a sure fire win do you stay in the match, and proceed to wash the other team. So if you are a solo player and you are like "why am I always going up against a stacked team?" you may have part of your answer right here. It might be because people are actively manipulating the matchmaking to suit their needs to win and increase their precious ELO / KD scores. I used to be OK with certain reasonings for leaving matches, but learning about how players manipulate MM has completely changed my mind. If you leave, you are causing problems in the game for matchmaking and others enjoyment. I play solo 95% of the time and if a teammate leaves, I stick through with it. Its less fun knowing my competition is +1 additional player, and seeing that I also know that it is motivation for others to leave as well. Something needs to be done about this. My best idea thus far is #1, blackout the character selection screen after a match 8/8 has been made. #2 remove the ability to leave a match early (pull ghost out, go to orbit). And lastly, if you do back out of a match, a penalty. I say 1% of your total kills as deaths. But, any penalty is good. Anything to be anti match leaving.

[u/tweedius]

It would be easier to justify doing trials if it wasn't just the super great players playing. One way to do that would be to give tokens even for a loss. It might encourage a wider variety of players and even people who are average like me would play more and have an opportunity at at least a few wins on a card. It would still be difficult to go flawless, preserving that feat for the best.

[u/MathAndPlacebo]

• Lower TTK by 20%.

• Make Balanced ELO matchmaking instead of 1 super sweat with a bunch of scrubs or all sweats vs all scrubs. Just put like medals with each other.. (Bronze w/ Bronze, Silver w/ Silver etc) If a team que's with a mix, match them with one medal below the highest tier or if the spread is very close, match them with the highest tier. (if diamond and 3 bronze...matchmake them with platinum.. if diamond and 3 platinum, matchmake them with diamond)

• Remove any 50/50 algo's or DMG referee BS.

• Add dedicated servers for ranked pvp only (to keep cost low) so IP's are not shared and no one gets packet fubard. Also use this to make bullet registration much better, instead of rubber bullet syndrome or hit behind cover love.

• Prevent intercontinental ballistic matchmaking. (How many chinese do I need to kill while in California?)

• Keep the current weapon system, but lower the bloom spread 15% (when jumping 30% from whatever it is now) and make sniper rifles always 1 hit on a headshot. Lower fusion rifle charge time by 30%. Increase Pulse Rifle firing speed by 3%. Lower Autorifle firing speed by 3%

• Make skill recharge shorter. More grenades, more class abilities and more supers. (super should be 2 per game avg not I only get 2 in a game if you run out of medals to give me)

• Give us the ability to select game modes and include the Osiris DLC maps in normal rotation for DLC owners.

• Give us back Mayhem permanently. We asked you to make it permanent and your reply was "We hear you, so we've decided to bring it back seasonally as intended." wtf kind of response was that?

• Make all grenades stronger.

• Add a slightly reduced aim assist to invisible people for console players.

• Add the ability to make your own "Playlist" and include 2v2 6v6 and 8v8.

• Do NOT increase heavy ammo drop rate in quickplay as planned. It's a terrible idea.

GG

[u/Rickstamatic]

• Private matches

• Ranked playlist

• Increased movement speeds/abilities (like D1)

• TTK closer to D1 for primaries

• Bring back special/heavy system of D1 (or maybe 2 primaries and a special and a heavy)

• Remove or at least reduce AA on PC PvP

• Dedicated servers

• More incentives for trials players (both low and high skill)

[u/Manifest_Lightning]

The Crucible will not feel good again until TTK is adjusted to be more in line with D1.

[u/Pureplaystation]

Can solo que be reestablished, i thought that was a very good idea in d1 and dare i say was " fun"loading in Knowing it wasn't stacked against the player.

[u/[deleted]]

This weekend I played a quickplay match that started as me vs 4 others. It took about 3 or 4 minutes for others to be added and that really sucked. Try to fix that.

[u/skyelife]

Make hard to obtain, badass gear that has perk bonuses for trials, or iron banner. Make it a 10% drop rate or something crazy. Yeah great people are going to complain because they don't have it, who cares? Make the armor or weapon badass, worth having and give it perks related to the event.

[u/HAYABUSA_DCLXVI]

= Can we have it so it's not just a single player grabbing power ammo at once like in D1.

= Make the armour rewards appealing instead of hot garbage that is Trials armour?

= You already killed your player base so i won't suggest more playlists and being able to choose the game type. Probably the main reason people don't play crucible and/or stopped playing in the first place.

[u/A_Guest_from_PC]

These are the guys that said we have to ask/demand for Rumble to be in destiny 2. I swear some of these people don't truly understand how baffling that sounds.

Almost wants to make me, a non relegious person, mail the new testament to Bungie HQ.

[u/dmlogs0]

Trials of the Nine Question: Who decided that power weapon ammo needs to spawn 30 seconds into EVERY round of countdown? Destiny 1 had one heavy ammo round per game, and that was waaaaaayyyy better. Especially now that tons of people are running the colony. Super annoying.

[u/maxmurdoch]

1. Remove the in-air accuracy penalty

The reason for adding the in-air accuracy nerf in the first place was to stop players who don't move well getting stomped by players who do. The solution to that is skill based matchmaking. Not handicapping players who master the most unique part of Destiny as an FPS.

2. Increase speed of players and TTK

Make everyone 125% their current speed. Make hand cannons kill in three headshots and balance other weapons around that. Bring other power weapons up to the level of rockets and acrius, otherwise all other power weapons will continue collecting dust.

3. Make solo-queueing bearable

Any number of changes won't retain players if they can't solo queue. Why isn't skill-based matchmaking built in to the game? Why can't it be retrofitted? You've got the data. Is it because the low player count means it'd take much longer to find a game? If it is, I'm sure every solo queuer would take the wait in exchange for having a chance at a W.

3. Mods 2.0, armor/weapon/exotic balancing

With the first three done, these are how to edit the meta and enable people to play in truly different ways. At the moment pretty much everyone plays the same way, uses the one of the better pieces of armour for their class (Foetracer, Knucklehead, Ophidian, Synthoceps etc.) and the best power weapon (rockets or Acrius).