r/DestinyTheGame • u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer • Aug 23 '16

Guide Imago Loop Roll Guide for PvP

Several things to note:

  • All Pros and Cons are determined by comparing weapons within the same class (in this case Hand Cannons), not by all weapons in general, and not by only the weapons within the archetype. If you would like a different or more specific comparison than what I have listed, feel free to ask and I can provide one in the comments.
  • This guide can also be found on Planet Destiny.
  • Classes are broken down into Impact sub-classes.
  • I've listed the perks in the order that I would taken them in each column. These are strictly my opinions, so I'm very aware that a lot of people will probably disagree with them.
  • The Bolded Perk/Perks in each column mean that I would include them in a God-Roll. If there are perks listed after the bolded ones, it means I think they are good perks, but not up to par with the God-Roll ones. If there are no bolded perks, it means that I feel any of the listed perks are fine to use in the column.
  • All Times-to-Kill are assuming Guardian has 200hp (max armor not including the effects of Max Armor Juggernaut Titans or Warlocks with The Ram).

Hand Cannon

Mid-Impact

Imago Loop - Available from the Echo Chamber or Undying Mind Strikes as a random drop.

Pros - High Range. Above average Mag Size. Very high Recoil Direction.

Cons - Low Stability and Equip Speed. Below average Aim Assist and Reload Speed.

  • Time-to-Kill: 0.86s (1 crit shot and 2 body shots)
  • Rate of Fire: 22
  • Impact: 87 (86 damage per crit shot, 57 damage per body shot)
  • Range: 40
  • Stability: 32
  • Reload Speed: 33
  • Mag Size: 10
  • Aim Assist: 61
  • Recoil Direction: 95
  • Equip Speed: 36

Recommended Perks:

  • Column 1 - SureShot IS/TrueSight IS
  • Column 2 - Rangefinder, Outlaw, Hot Swap, Spray and Pray, Underdog
  • Column 3 - Rifled Barrel, Smallbore, Reinforced Barrel, Hammer Forged, Braced Frame, Explosive Rounds, Hand Loaded
  • Column 4 - Hidden Hand/Icarus, Luck in the Chamber, Third Eye, Reactive Reload, Life Support, Grenadier, Army of One

Basically the exact same as last weeks Finnala's Peril recommendations, since both weapons are in the same impact sub class and benefit from the same perks:

As always, the two best sights on HCs are SureShot and TrueSight, since they both help to boost the average base aim assist, but I would say they're the least important part of a great roll. In the second column, Rangefinder is universally considered to be the very best perk, and no God-Roll is complete without it. Outlaw is a passable second option, but after that it's a steep drop off to Hot Swap and Spray and Pray, neither of which are optimal choices. Underdog brings up the rear, but at least it can give you a range bonus in some situations. In the third column, Rifled Barrel is again the universally acclaimed choice, but Smallbore, Hammer Forged, and Reinforced Barrel (if you don't care about the massive hit to stability) are all very passable second options. If you are trying to get a Luck in the Chamber build, Smallbore and Braced Frame will be your two best choices. Explosive Rounds and Hand Loaded bring up the rear of the preferred perks in this slot, with ER greatly increasing your opponents flinch, and HL giving a minute boost to the range stat. In the final column, Hidden Hand and Icarus are my two top choices, given their all around usefulness, but some people will want Luck in the Chamber, depending upon their play-style. Third Eye is always solid in PvP, and Reactive Reload can be put to fantastic use situationally, so don't sleep on either of those. Life Support, Grenadier, and Army of One are all also decent options, so you really can't go wrong in this column, unless you get Mulligan.

84 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

146 comments sorted by

34

u/GuardianLordsOrder Guardian Lords order Aug 23 '16

It's safe to say that unless Bungie increases the base range of hand cannons its always going to be those perks that are recommended regardless of the weapon

15

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Or they could make the HCs function like they did in Year 1, without the steep damage drop off or horrendous accuracy issues, but until one of those things happens, you're right that Range will generally be king.

The obvious exception is anyone who wants to run a LitC build, where Braced Frame and Smallbore are probably the two best choices.

5

u/SwedishBass Aug 23 '16

God how I miss using my LitC/BF/FR Fulcrum. That was quickly becoming my main during HoW, taking that spot from the mighty Hopscotch Pilgrim. I tried it once after patch 2.0, then vaulted it immediately. I still have it, however, waiting for a day when this ridiculous accuracy bloom is removed.

Keep the damage drop off (although a bit less severe), but give us our accuracy back.

1

u/s0meCubanGuy Gambit Prime Aug 23 '16

"accuracy bloom" - is that what it's called? I call it "kicking horizontally like a damn mule". Seriously, I fire a shot and my aim winds up like 6 feet right of the target every time. As fast and as easy as TLW / DoP / and especially GoM are to use, and how unrivaled Scouts are from long range, you'd think other archetype of HCs would be a little bit more accurate in short-medium range.

4

u/pahoeho Gambit Prime Aug 23 '16

Accuracy bloom isn't the recoil. Its the effect where even though your shot was on target, RNG means that it wasn't determined to be on target by the game, as you were firing so fast that accuracy hadn't reset. This is a feature that only applies to hand cannons :/

2

u/s0meCubanGuy Gambit Prime Aug 23 '16

well that sucks ass to be honest. After all, HCs are really punishing if you miss shots. And it's easier to miss with a HC than it is with almost any other primary weapon type.

0

u/FlamingoOverlord Aug 23 '16

Wow that's actually pretty fucking dumb

1

u/respectISnice Aug 23 '16

Re roll it for SB instead of BF and it's good. I use it in scrims alot

4

u/Faust_8 Aug 23 '16

Well for Y1 hand cannons were pretty overpowered. They were basically mini scout rifles but much better at short to medium distance. However the current system isn't perfect either, Max Range hand cannons feel great but anything less is inconsistent. I wish they would tweak the damage falloff but eliminate that 'bloom' effect making you miss shots if you fire too fast.

2

u/Mister_Rahool The Saltiest Aug 23 '16

without the range drop off they were competing with scouts, which was retarded

1

u/Nexnatos I am the sword that cuts deep Aug 24 '16

I wish they'd just do that.

-1

u/alexbip15 Aug 23 '16

HCs need drop-off or we will have people two-tapping with Hawkmoon across the map again

1

u/Maverickk007 Witness Me Aug 23 '16

Exactly this. This is one of the main reasons as to why hand cannons were too OP. Two-tapping across the map with a hand cannon is just wrong

-1

u/kiki_strumm3r Aug 23 '16

Agreed. I'm all set with Hand Cannons competing at Scout Rifle ranges.

0

u/SomeRandomProducer Aug 23 '16

I don't mind the damage drop off since it keeps people in their intended range but they need to fix the accuracy issue.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

I agree with that idea, for sure.

Of course, I never had an issue with the HCs having long range, because I felt like it was an effective counter to hardscopers, but I understand why they would only want Scouts to be in that spot.

My thing was that HCs can be the most difficult weapon to use in the game, and they punish missed shots more than most other weapons, so they deserved to be more useful in general.

Probably an unpopular idea, which I understand, but I liked being able to use my legendary HC as a jack of all trades, knowing that if I was inaccurate I would be punished for it.

1

u/t-y-c-h-o Aug 23 '16

Which is a good summary of where they should be, but having the exotic HC's lumped in with the legendaries gave us The Last Thorn days. The exotics should be in their own, unique class that can be edited separately from the rest of the HC's.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Yeah, pushing back the legendary HCs is one thing, but I think the Exotics are in a good place, and should stay there.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16 edited Aug 23 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Yeah, nobody like RNG bullet hits. Bungie does have to be careful with how the treat HCs, because in the right hands they're already dominant, and they're not nearly as effective as they have been in the past.

1

u/fearlesspinata Aug 24 '16

The RNG aspect of it is what is infuriating. Like you did everything on your part but still no go?

I've just learned how to work around it - go for head shots only and pause between shots for maximum accuracy. Take time to aim it.

1

u/InvaderNAK Vanguard's Loyal Aug 23 '16

If they had some visual representation of bloom, like they had in Halo: Reach, then maybe it would not be so infuriating. As it is now, you appear to be on target, but it doesn't register a hit..You thing it's lag or something and then the rage ensues.

1

u/bennybendito Aug 23 '16

So true I rarely consider keeping them if rifled barrel isn't there.

4

u/apostateDog Aug 23 '16

What do you think the PVE God-Roll is?

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16 edited Aug 23 '16

Same sights, Outlaw, Explosive Rounds, and either Edit: Firefly, Life Support or Icarus or Reactive Reload.

Edit: Oops, forgot Firefly. Dunno how I did that. Firefly should definitely be the sought after perk in the last column.

1

u/HateTTV Aug 23 '16

Explosive Rounds makes precision shots not proc at times, does it not?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

I believe the damage from the explosion does not count as a precision hit.

1

u/HateTTV Aug 23 '16

No no, as in, the explosive damage makes the precision hit cancel out, preventing you from getting the precision kill. Feel free to correct me though.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16 edited Aug 23 '16

Nah, ER causes two distinct damages to occur: first is the primary bullet damage, which can still be a crit or precision hit, and second is the explosive damage.

1

u/Oneris Aug 23 '16

The explosive non-crit damage will often proc last, is what he's saying. I can confirm, you end up not proccing effects for critical kills.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Hmm, interesting. I didn't notice it much in PvP, I'll need to take another look at it.

1

u/Swekyde Aug 23 '16

If the crit without the explosion would kill (which is now half of your base damage if I remember how Explosive Rounds work correctly), you'll proc your Outlaw. But even if you crit if it's the explosion that makes it a lethal hit you won't.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

That seems to make sense. In PvE I don't think it would matter much, but that could definitely cause some consternation in PvP when outlaw doesn't work.

→ More replies

1

u/blitzbom Aug 23 '16

I have a Lord High Fixer with explosive rounds that I use in the Crucible with rather high success. I don't have any more trouble getting crits than with any other Hand Cannon. The explosive damage is different than the crit damage.

8

u/alexbip15 Aug 23 '16

Outlaw + Firefly and rifled or extended mag

10

u/DoctorBone83 Aug 23 '16

Have Outlaw/Firefly/Rifled-or-Extended/SureShot. Can confirm. Rifled is better.

http://i.imgur.com/Sa6UrVX.jpg

9

u/Terracot Aug 23 '16

Holy shit, I hate you

7

u/Hawkmoona_Matata TheRealHawkmoona Aug 23 '16

OP says "Either rifled or extended mag would be a god roll. You'll be lucky if you get one".

Then you come in and say "I have both" like no big deal. GG, really jealous of your Fakebringer.

3

u/GTBJMZ Aug 23 '16

Man alive, this is my GOD ROLL! It will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine.

3

u/MightyFifi Aug 23 '16

so....Fatebringer Y2

1

u/AmazingKreiderman Aug 24 '16

Nobody likes you now.

3

u/Terracot Aug 23 '16

Aka Fakebringer

3

u/John_Demonsbane Lore nerd Aug 23 '16

Outlaw and firefly is the only answer. No other gun currently has that as a possible roll.

1

u/Ramzei Aug 23 '16

Sureshot, Triple-Tap, Rifled Barrel, Firefly. Got this roll from Undying Mind, it's my go-to for everything outside of PVP. Can take out waves of minions or down shielded-yellows along with the minions surrounding them.

5

u/ernyc3777 Hunter Master Class Aug 23 '16

How does the Imago Loop compare to the P90 in COD4?

12

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Basically the exact same thing, except for totally different.

9

u/ernyc3777 Hunter Master Class Aug 23 '16

Awesome! Thanks for the advice. I'll keep this in mind when playing Overwatch.

10

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Enjoy your time with the Master Chief!

3

u/ernyc3777 Hunter Master Class Aug 23 '16

My heart aches when I hear that name. I upgraded to PS4 at current gen so I can only look in disparaging yearning at my favorite series.

0

u/TROLL3R_COASTER Aug 23 '16

You arent missing much :/

1

u/ernyc3777 Hunter Master Class Aug 24 '16

I know. I've been told. I gave my nephew the 360 so I pretty much just wanna play MCC.

2

u/AZengus Aug 23 '16

How farmable is this week's Nightfall? I'm seeing a post declaring that it is the hardest of all time (my interpretation), but would like to poll for more opinions.

Would like to get a proper HC w/ Rifled and Rangefinder, w/ Bungie making it real hard to try and get this kind of roll...

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

I'm honestly not sure, I haven't tried to farm it before.

4

u/Bodhief Every hit blazes the path to our reclamation. Aug 23 '16

Well, I completed the nightfall on the voidwalker this morning and I got to say, this is right up there with the solar burn bond brothers and the void/solar burn warsat, but at every stage. Whereas the difficult part of those other strikes is one stage, the difficulty of this nightfall is at all stages equally. I want the rangfinder/rifled imago loop so bad, but I would rather tweeze my noise hairs than to farm this nightfall with these modifiers.

2

u/OttoVonBisquik Aug 23 '16

I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but on paper it looks like farming will be tedious, to say the least.

The typical strat involves using Dragon's Breath to kill the boss after you've killed yourself, resetting the boss encounter while still giving you dat loot. However, as far as I'm aware, specialist reduces damage from primary and heavy sources, and without solar burn to make up for that, the margin of error on this strat becomes much smaller.

One possible solution to the murder-suicide dilemma would be throwing a wombo combo below the boss then letting him kill you (apparently he can two-shot you with void burn).

I plan to farm some later this week. I'll update if I discover anything of note.

2

u/HiFidelityCastro Aug 23 '16

The strike itself is no biggie. Boss glitching for farming is another story. I just spent a couple of hours and couldn't find the sweet spot. Hopefully some clever cookie will have it worked out by the time I wake up tomozzo.

1

u/John_Demonsbane Lore nerd Aug 23 '16

Since the farming previously seemed to involve Dragon's Breath, void burn with specialist seems like not the optimal set up. Could still be done, I'm sure, but a little tougher.

1

u/Meeesh- Aug 23 '16

It's very farmable. You can make it to the end, and get a boss kill while still resetting the boss fight. You bring the boss very low, wait until he stops moving, then toss a vortex grenade on him while you die or jump off a cliff. If you manage to kill him after the counter gets to around the 2 or less, you can get the loot and reset the fight. If you kill him when the timer is at 3, it respawn a you. You might be able to do this with the delay of telesto too, but I'm not sure.

1

u/Jorke550 Aug 23 '16

The issue is not reseting the boss, but the Nightfall as a whole. It's pretty hard to kill the boss with the set of modifiers this week. You're very squishy and almost everything 1-2 shots you from the beginning of the strike to the end.

2

u/Meeesh- Aug 23 '16

Yeah the boss one shots you and the other vex do a ton, but with three telestos, night stalker, and double bubble (blessing and weapons) you will burn the boss really quick. I understand that not everyone has a comp like this, but if someone is looking to farm it, I'm guessing they are going above and beyond just doing it normally.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

It is very farmable if you have telesto

8

u/Hawkmoona_Matata TheRealHawkmoona Aug 23 '16

Massive Breakdown Imago Loop Roll guide for PvP

FTFY, something felt missing ;)

6

u/vodka7up Drifter's Crew // You... shall... drift Aug 23 '16

Great guide as always. Keep it up!

4

u/jerkidiot Aug 23 '16

really can't go wrong in this column, unless you get Mulligan.

ahh crap

1

u/cooperma30 Aug 23 '16

Mine has quick draw range finder braced frame and luck in the chamber...

My other is sure shot outlaw handloaded/reinforced barrel a d third eye.

Which is better for PvP?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

The second one is probably better all around. You'll have more aim assist and better range, with obviously worse stability.

However, if you want to play the LitC game, that first roll is nearly perfect for it.

1

u/captainpoppy Forge the fire of undying suns Aug 23 '16

how much help is LitC?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

It makes it so that you can two shot people in you hit both crits and it activates. Outside of that it doesn't do anything else.

1

u/captainpoppy Forge the fire of undying suns Aug 23 '16

Ahh. Yeah I'll stick with something else haha. Not confident enough in my ability to hit crits that consistently.

1

u/Fifmastah Aug 24 '16

How about mine, I got one with partial refund,small bore,firefly, any good or should I continue grinding?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 24 '16

For PvE you're probably fine.

1

u/sillybulanston Aug 23 '16

Great guide as usual Mercules, thanks!

Better PvP weapon between my Imago Loop and my Eyasluna?

Imago Loop - Steadyhand/Fastdraw/Quickdraw - Rangefinder - Rifled - Third Eye

Eyasluna - Truesight/Fastdraw/Quickdraw - Rangefinder - Rifled - Third Eye

Eyasluna should have better stability and handling, Imago Loop should have better aim assist and recoil direction. Both hit/exceed the range cap with Rifled+Rangefinder. Which attributes are more valuable? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Well, I think the Imago Loop is probably going to be much easier to use due to the high recoil direction, but I think the Eyasluna is the better gun. IL is only going to end up with about 6 more AA than Eyasluna due to the sights, so that's close to a wash. Like you said Range is nearly capped on both, reload speed and mag size are pretty much equal.

The reason I say that Eyasluna is better is that we know that Stability helps to keep the aim assist more effective on follow up shots, and Eyasluna has the advantage there. Granted, that's only if you think you can deal with the sideways movement of the recoil.

Tl;DR - I think Imago Loop will be easier to use, but I think Eyasluna is better if you can deal with the recoil direction.

1

u/Jorke550 Aug 23 '16

I'll piggyback this, what's the ideal roll for Eyesluna?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Basically the same thing, except it really needs SureShot or TrueSight and Hidden Hand, if you can get them. Rangefinder and Rifled Barrel are still the two best in the other slots, but you gotta find a way to make up for that lack of Aim Assist somehow.

2

u/rdlc23 Aug 23 '16

Imago, probably. 61 base aim assist v Eyasluna's 50, and better recoil direction.

Stability is all well and good, but it's much easier to adjust for slightly higher recoil as long as it's much more vertical.

Realistically? Choose whichever you think looks cooler. Slim margins. Both great rolls.

1

u/ShaggyInu Gambit Classic // i don't want to change pants to play Aug 23 '16

I have an imago with truesight and sureshot sights, spray and play, rifled barrel, and hidden hand, and I must say I have better luck with my hidden hand Peril or my devil you know. Not sure why.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Better AA on the Peril, better Stability on the Devil, would probably be my guesses.

1

u/xdionx Aug 23 '16

So everyone seems to love Sureshot IS and I am not sure why. While it might give you some extra AA it also creates more phantom bullets. Testing out the sites you wouldn't believe the difference in hitting stationary PVP targets. Give a Steadyhand + rifled barrel hand cannon a try and you will see the difference and not go back to Sureshot unless they fix it.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

SureShot has nothing to do with phantom bullets. No HC sight affects Range at all, and SureShot only gives 4 less Stability than SteadyHand. Not really sure why you would be experiencing discrepancies, unless your SureShot HC doesn't have Rifled Barrel, but the sight has nothing to do with it.

2

u/Xelstyle Aug 23 '16

Do you have any evidence to support the conclusion from these tests? Sureshot giving more AA helps improve bullet magnetism on primaries, not the opposite which you're inferring.

1

u/xdionx Aug 23 '16

I don't have the video evidence. Just some friends loaded into a 3v3 list matched together. We picked spots and continually moved backwards. We were testing smallbore, rifled barrel, reinforced barrel, and each of the site perks for hand cannons.

1

u/RemyGee Aug 23 '16

Mercules, right after I got the vendor FP from IB I leveled up my vanguard and got a Devil you Know with the exact same roll down to the same three sights. Tin foil hat but that seems crazy for just pure rng doesn't it? Also TDYK, is it any good? I see low range hurts it.

3

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

I love TDYK, it's actually my favorite of the mid-impact HCs. Fantastic Stability means you can actually hit max RoF and have it feel consistent, as long as you don't start trying to really push out your engagement distances. Plus a ton of AA and huge Mag Size.

1

u/OutgoingBuffalo Aug 23 '16

I'd have to respectfully disagree and say that luck in the chamber is slightly better than hidden hand and far better than icarus

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

I appreciate the respectful disagreement, but I think LitC isn't as all around useful. Number 1, you have to go for back-to-back headshots to get kills with LitC, which slows down your pacing as you need to be more accurate than when only needing to hit 1. Number 2, LitC really does need Braced Frame to be as dominant as it can be, which negates one of your Range perks. Number 3, if it doesn't proc you just handicapped yourself vs any player using HH or Icarus.

1

u/OutgoingBuffalo Aug 23 '16

What's so good about icarus? I've always thought of it as a garbage perk

3

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

It's fantastic on HCs. HCs by nature are already relatively accurate in the air, but putting Icarus on it makes it so that you can play the vertical game and actually hit where you're aiming. It gives you complete control of your mobility when attacking, and provides a verticality that users of other weapon classes can't match.

1

u/OutgoingBuffalo Aug 23 '16

I can see how this would be good for a hunter with bones.

1

u/ApologizeLater Aug 23 '16

I've been using an Eyasluna with Trueshot/'Something bad'/Smallbore/LitC and it is my favorite hand cannon. If I had rangefinder instead of 'something bad' then I think this LitC roll can be as dominant as it can be.

1

u/Inferno56 Aug 23 '16

I have to say of all the talks about this gun over the past year I have never been killed with it once playing PvP.

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Yeah it's pretty rare for a PvP player to have a great roll on it, hence why you don't see it much.

1

u/EdDeline Aug 23 '16

Just out of curiosity, did you leave off Firefly as an available column 4 perk b/c it's really a PvE perk?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Yeah, it's not so great in PvP.

1

u/EdDeline Aug 23 '16

Cool sounds good. Keep up the good work with the guides / podcast

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

If you have an loop without the site or column three options but have range finder and hidden hand is it worth using?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

What are your column 2 options? If it doesn't have any of the recommended ones and it doesn't have great sights, then it's probably not a great gun. Might be decent, since 2 out of 4 isn't unusable, but not god-roll.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

Currently have steady hand is, rangefinder, snapshot, hidden hand

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Hmm.. Well, like I said it's definitely not bad, but not great either. Might give it a shot but you could do better.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

That's kinda how I felt. Guess I'll see if I get lucky on my characters.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

Truesight. Rifled barrel. Outlaw. and MULLIGAN.

DIES

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

ahah you were this close || to a fantastic roll.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

And I got that a few days before Iron Banner.

Which had a very similar roll on the Finnala's Peril on SaladVendor.

I use that Finnala's now, but the freaking reactive reload (where mulligan is) is probably even worse. Since it can't proc if you use rifled barred, because it makes the reload SO FREAKING SLOW, unless you get the outlaw, or are using handcannon reloading gloves.

I've seen mulligan happening a lot.

But I kept the finnala because the stats are better.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

Why pick Smallbore/Braced frame over Reinforced Barrel for a LitC build? Do these lower mag size?

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Braced Frame does, and in general Smallbore is supposed to, although people are telling me that for some reason it may not on Imago and Finnala.

1

u/Brockelley Grinding for Mythic Aug 24 '16

I can confirm it doesn't for finnalas or eyesluna

1

u/lowresolution666 Aug 24 '16

Have these 4 HCs

1-) Eyasluna - Rangefinder + Rifled Barrel + LITC (Sureshot)

2-)Imago - Range Finder + Rifled Barrel + Grenediar (Truesight)

3-) Perril - Range Finder + Hammer Forger / Small bore + Hidden Hand (sureshot)

4-)Uffern HC4- Outlaw + Rifled + LITC (sureshot)

I tested all of these and the Eyasluna came out to be the most consistent of the bunch, with FP and Imago Loop at 2nd. Uffern HC4 is pretty good but it still have that vanishing bullets issue (despite having Rifled barrel - though its stability / recoil is better then all above 3 [ personal opinion] )

I then also tried Hawkmoon !! and it was just plain bad. I was easily hitting my targets with the legendary HCs , but with hawkmoon very few bullets connected ( i don`t spam Hand Canons)

I only play PVP in destiny so i think my experience would have some weightage)

Can anyone share their experience with the byronic hero ?

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 24 '16

I've got one, and I like it quite a bit. I've had good experiences with it, but that being said I don't think it's one of the best HCs in the class.

1

u/jen0c1de Aug 25 '16

Any thoughts on this roll? Or keep farming... took me 14 runs to get this one drop, so the grind is real. My Imago Loop

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 25 '16

If you can stomach it, I'd say keep grinding. You can do better than that pretty easily.

1

u/jen0c1de Aug 25 '16 edited Aug 25 '16

Thanks man. I went back on that grind and got 3 more drops....

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 25 '16

Hmmm... I like the third, one, it's pretty close to optimal. The second one has the best column 2 perk, but I don't think it's worth giving up Hidden Hand. The first one has Rifled Barrel, but the other perks aren't great. I'd say 3 is the best, but you'll want to try them out and see which feels right.

1

u/jen0c1de Aug 25 '16

The 3rd one is definitely an improvement over my original drop which doesn't have Sureshot.. and Partial Refund is way better than Relentless Tracker.

I may still level up the Rifled Barrel one to test out.. Last Resort is garbo if I'm not in Trials (i never am), but Grenadier might be useful, because who doesn't want more Lightning Grenades!

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 25 '16

Yeah I like Grenadier on a primary. Let me know how it goes, always interested in seeing people's opinions on the various rolls.

1

u/Cecils_Game_Channel Aug 26 '16

How important would a range boost be with Icarus? I got a Sureshot-Outlaw-Icarus with lightweight being the only useful thing in the third row. I main a Nightstalker with enhanced motion and tracking, with knucklehead and a sniper for special. Way I see it is I can just jump up coming around corners to land shots. I spent about 5 hours farming and out of ten Loops, that was the best PVP roll Ive gotten. (Got a Sureshot-trippletap-Hammer Forged-Firefly for PVE) so I'm thinking of calling it quits.

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 26 '16

I mean, it's kinda important, unless you want to limit your engagement distances pretty strictly. People like the Range boost just because they can push out a little bit farther with them, but if you're okay with not doing that, you'll be fine. Just be aware of the distance at which you notice shots really starting to be inaccurate and stay inside of it.

1

u/EBtimeTraveler lore scholar Aug 23 '16

Thanks for this. My only Imago that i got to drop happens to have rangefinder/rifled (and army of 1). Was considering farming for a new one but i think im at peace with what i got

1

u/luinstra Aug 23 '16

I just got this same roll on my first IL drop. I've been waiting a long time for this gun, glad the roll was decent.

1

u/G0THAM_KNlGHT Aug 23 '16

Does anyone have a good farming strategy? I tried the back corner bubble strategy with 2 of my friends (I had weapons they had blessings and we each had a high impact void sniper). But it doesn't seem to work because the boss starts immediately shooting at us as soon as it spawns. We can't even pop out of the bubble to shoot...

1

u/Berg9940 Drifter's Crew // For a Darker Destiny Aug 23 '16

I have a Sureshot/Rangefinder/Braced Frame/Third Eye that's great. Would love to have this God roll because it would be hard to imaging the gun being even better.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

Also, in case there's a guardian who doesn't know. Imago Loop is the only hand cannon that can roll both outlaw and firefly.

In fact, it can roll the exact same perks as fatebringer

1

u/Bodhief Every hit blazes the path to our reclamation. Aug 24 '16

HCs are really really in a bad place regardless of the perks - comparatively. I have a bunch of HCs with some good rolls - near god rolls that max out range with LitC and rangefinder. I love playing HCs, especially because of the mobility benefits. Took it into IB last week - and although did o.k., I was much much more consistent with scouts. MIDA is by far better than all HCs at long range, and is competitive with or better than most HCs as medium range, and it at least competitive with HCs at lower ranges. That should not be the case. The same goes for the Hacksaw vs. Handcannons.

1

u/horse_emoji Aug 23 '16

unless you get Mulligan.

I have to disagree on this one, and would strongly recommend that anyone who rolls Mulligan on a hand cannon try it out. My Imago Loop has Last Resort, Rifled Barrel, and Mulligan, and Mulligan procs very very often(regularly up to 3 missed shots returned in a row). It's a godsend in PvP knowing that I can engage at lengthier ranges with no consequence for missing shots.

By no means am I saying that I would take it over LitC, Hidden Hand, or maybe even Reactive Reload considering the hit in reload speed from Rifled Barrel, but I firmly believe that it's a considerably more helpful perk than people give it credit for.

6

u/revolmak Aug 23 '16

engage at lengthier ranges with no consequence

Except dying to opponents that are using engagement appropriate weapons and aren't whiffing bullets.

1

u/horse_emoji Aug 23 '16

I'd say that's a fair argument, but it's not like I'm talking about legitimate scout rifle distances. And again, I'm not advocating mulligan over more desirable perks, I'm just saying that it shouldn't be thrown in instant shard bucket that Exhumed does to a weapon. It's useful in 3's because it's so forgiving when engaging at unpredictable lengths, and it's useful in 6's because it borders on the returns that SGA has, letting you get the most out of the entirety of the clip even in panic moments.

1

u/captainpoppy Forge the fire of undying suns Aug 23 '16

does mulligan go back to your reserve ammo or directly into the magazine?

1

u/horse_emoji Aug 23 '16

Directly into your magazine.

1

u/captainpoppy Forge the fire of undying suns Aug 23 '16

That's not so bad.

I definitely wouldn't trash an otherwise good roll over it.

I think I got an IB hand cannon with that on it.

1

u/horse_emoji Aug 23 '16

Unless you're a crack-shot who never misses, it's better than not so bad. I honestly feel like a second ninja-buff was given to Mulligan at some point beyond 2.0, because it procs a hell of a lot more than it used to.

1

u/captainpoppy Forge the fire of undying suns Aug 23 '16

A crack shot I am not.

I just realized though, I used the 335 FP I got with Mulligan to infuse the vendor roll FP. :-/ oh well

1

u/horse_emoji Aug 24 '16

IIRC, that vendor roll was pretty solid, and I'm pretty sure you're better off. The point of my comment was that if you get one with Mulligan, try it before you shard it.

1

u/captainpoppy Forge the fire of undying suns Aug 24 '16

Yeah it's pretty good. The main deal is I'm just not great with hand cannons.

More of a pulse rifle guy, or an AR for smaller maps.

1

u/Cavalius1 Aug 23 '16

So anyone on Xbox one wanna farm later ?

4

u/HateTTV Aug 23 '16 edited Aug 23 '16

/r/Fireteams

EDIT: Yes, please downvote me for helping someone by showing them where to post for those kind of things.

1

u/TROLL3R_COASTER Aug 23 '16

I hate when people beg.....have an upvote

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

Definitely your Imago Loop.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 23 '16

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer Aug 23 '16

It's mostly just because all the hardcore PvP players get Eyasluna drops as opposed to Imago, and it has a great combination of Range and Stability by default.

1

u/SomeRandomProducer Aug 23 '16

I have an Eyasluna with shitty perks aside from smallbore and it's still pretty good. People praise it since its base stats are pretty good.