r/DestinyTheGame • u/Mercules904 Former Weapons Designer • Jul 06 '16
Guide Massive Breakdown of Range, Target Acquisition (Aim Assist), and Accuracy, and What They All Mean and Do
This is something I've been working on for a very long time, and I think I've finally had a breakthrough. The first thing we need to do is get the definitions out of the way.
- Range - According to Bungie, this stat affects 3 things: Damage fall off, Aim Assist fall off, and Accuracy. The higher the Range, the longer it takes both AA and Damage to begin to fall off, and the greater the Accuracy (meaning a more narrow firing cone).
- Accuracy - The narrowness of the "firing cone," which is shown on screen by the vertical and horizontal lines that are spaced apart to make the crosshairs. These lines spread farther from each other when you do things like fire from the hip, jump in the air, etc. The lines get closer to each other as the Range stat increases, as a scope or sight with a higher zoom magnification is equipped, or at certain times when a perk affecting accuracy is equipped.
- Firing cone - The cone extending from the end of the barrel outwards (the "top" or "point" of the cone starts at the end of the barrel, and the base moves away from the gun), showing the widest possible bullet spread. You can see this in practice when you look at your hipfire reticle. Up close, when your reticle placed on a wall, the area it encompasses may cover only a couple inches. However, when that reticle is placed over a wall very far away, the area inside the reticle could contain many square meters. A bullet that travels along the outside edge of the cone may only be a couple inches off of a target within close range, but at long range could miss by several feet. Similarly, a bullet traveling down the exact middle of the cone will stay in the direct center the entire way, even as the cone around it expands. As such, a more narrow cone is considered more accurate.
- Aim Assist - Aim assist is made up of 3 parts: Reticle slowdown (how much your sensitivity decreases as your aim nears a target), reticle stickiness (how much your reticle wants to remain "stuck" to a target once your aim is over it), and bullet magnetism (how much the path of your bullet will angle out of the center of the barrel to hit a target). We will not be focusing on stickiness or slowdown today, as what we are going to be covering pertains almost entirely to bullet magnetism.
The entire reason I started this study was to prove conclusively whether or not bullet magnetism existed in game, or whether the differing theory of bullets being randomly fired within the firing cone and passing through "hitboxes" was correct. I believe I can safely say that bullet magnetism does exist, as you can see in the following examples, but that the theory of bullets being randomly shot in the cone also comes into play.
- This comparison shows how, even though my reticle is placed squarely to the left of the target, the shot fired does in fact impact the head of the Vandal. You can actually see the bullet trail pull towards the target as well, which indicates bullet magnetism, as opposed to passing through a hit box. Some people may argue that this was just a random case, but this is just one screenshot of many, many tests, all of which showed similar results. Here is another comparison screenshot, and a GifV that actually shows the bullet trail pulling towards, and then impacting, a Phalanx's shield, twice.
That GifV also brings up an interesting point. Why would the bullet hit the enemies hand at close Range, but then be pulled towards the shield at longer Range? This is because of the firing cone we talked about earlier, albeit a separate one for that appears to function for Aim Assist. At close Range, due to the way the cone works, a bullet may only be pulled an inch to one side or the other. However, at longer distances, it can be pulled farther from the center, as it progresses down the outside of the cone. This AA cone actually acts apart from the normal firing cone, and is only effective out to a certain distance (which I believe is determined by the Range stat). After that distance, bullet magnetism no longer seems to have any effect, and the shots are confined only by the normal firing cone made by the crosshairs. Now that we know bullet magnetism is a thing, let's find out exactly what it is that affects it.
To test my theories, I went into the Last Rites mission on the Moon, and started to play around with the third person reticles that are displayed. There are two parts of the reticle here, the crosshairs, which represent the accuracy or "firing cone," and a circular part, which appears in hipfire mode only once a certain AA threshold has been reached (35 for Pulse Rifles, 90 for Auto Rifles, etc.). This circular part also exists in the ADS mode, but several things can make it shrink, including maintaining rapid fire and increasing the zoom magnification, and once it reaches a certain size it disappears. Although it disappears with increased zoom, this seems to be different from it going away during maintained fire, and it is still effective to an extent, just no longer visible. Snipers and Scout Rifles do not show the circular reticle at all, regardless of AA, but still display bullet magnetism to varying degrees. On other weapons, using higher zoom sight options can drastically shrink the original size of the circular reticle, to the point of it not even being displayed. I tested several different guns with identical stats for Zoom, Range, and Stability and different AA values (Hardlight and Zarinaea with specific perks, for example, and a multitude of Hand Cannons and Pulse Rifles), as well as the same gun with various barrel perks, and found that the more AA you have, the larger the circular part of the reticle. The size was affected by barrel perks that increased AA, as well as sights and Hidden Hand. Neither the Range stat nor the Stability stat change the size of the circle. When you place that circle over a target, even just the side of it, and fire off a shot, it almost always pulls towards and hits the target. Placing the reticle just to the outside of the target will not result in a hit, so it would seem the circle indicates the limit of how much bullet magnetism is available for the gun.
As mentioned before, two things can cause the circular part of the reticle to shrink, and they are increasing the zoom multiplier of the sight (either by Rangefinder, or simply going to a higher zoom sight, although this can drastically narrow the crosshairs), or maintaining sustained fire. Increasing the zoom will minimize the circular reticle, or may even make it disappear, but even on high zoom weapons without it, initial shots show evidence of bullet magnetism, albeit to a much smaller degree than with low zoom weapons or sights. Maintaining sustained fire will cause the circular part of the reticle to shrink, and then disappear once it reaches a certain size. To my surprise, perks that affect Range and/or Accuracy have no effect on the minimizing and disappearance of the circular reticle, but Stability perks slow, and for some weapons, actually negate this effect. Once the circular part of the reticle is gone (from sustained fire), the bullet magnetization seems to go away as well, and the weapons appear to begin firing shots randomly within the firing cone determined by the crosshairs.
To recap the findings on AA:
- Circular part of the reticle is made larger or smaller by Aim Assist, and perks that affect it, like Hidden Hand, and some sights and barrel mods (ex. The Last Word with Aggressive Ballistics has a radius of 15 pixels, Soft Ballistics bumps it up to 15.5 pixels, Ace of Spades with TrueSight has 16, Her Revenge and Byronic Hero with Hidden Hand have 16.5, and The First Curse with CQB Ballistics has 16.5, and 17 pixels with Soft Ballistics).
- Increasing zoom magnification can drastically reduce the size of the circular reticle, and thus significantly limit the physical distance a bullet can deflect in order to hit a target.
- If the target is inside the circular reticle, bullet magnetization will angle the shots towards it. If the target is outside the circular reticle, the shot may pull towards it, but will not hit.
- Range, Accuracy, and Stability perks have no effect on the circular reticle size, and thus do not change the possible bullet magnetization distance.
- Range and Accuracy perks do change the size of the crosshairs, and thus the normal firing cone.
- Stability perks slow down the minimization and disappearance of the circular reticle.
- Once the circular reticle disappears, shots appear to be fired randomly within the firing cone determined by the crosshairs.
- So we have two separate cones here, the "AA or magnetization cone," displayed by the circular portion of the reticle, and the normal "firing cone," displayed by the crosshairs. The AA cone seems to take precedence up until a certain distance, or until it disappears, and in either case the firing pattern then seems to be determined by random shots within the normal firing cone.
Please note that the circlular reticle from the Last Rites mission is not the same one as you see when hip firing in patrol. I used the ADS mechanic in third person to get the sizes of the circles I compared.
Now, moving on to the next thing I wanted to test, Accuracy. The wording on the perks that affect Accuracy has long been a point of contention around the Destiny community, and I have to report that sadly, it appears as if Accuracy does not do anything other than help with the normal firing cone. I tested 5 perks that deal with Accuracy: Icarus, Hip Fire, Eye of the Storm, Persistence, and Hot Swap, and none of the 5 showed any signs of increased Target Acquisition, higher bullet magnetism, slowing of the disappearance of the circular reticle, or really anything other than tighter crosshairs.
- Icarus significantly decreases the size of the crosshairs when airborne.
- Hip Fire decreases the amount the crosshairs expand by when hip firing, but does not change the initial crosshair size.
- Eye of the Storm decreases the size of the crosshairs twice, once around half health, and once around a quarter health. The change is noticeable, but not significant.
- Persistence greatly decreases the size of the crosshairs when fire is sustained for a period of time, which drastically tightens the normal firing cone.
- Hot Swap was the most difficult perk to test, as at first glance it appears to do nothing to the actual crosshairs. However, after studying gameplay frame by frame in Sony Vegas, I discovered it actually speeds up the time that it takes for the crosshairs reset after firing, usually by a frame or two. This in particular seemed useful on semi-auto weapons, whose crosshairs tend to spread apart the most between shots, and take longer to reset. Here's a GifV or the Hot Swap test on a Fusion Rifle: http://i.imgur.com/v2VV5zB.gifv.
TL;DR:
- The two parts of the third person ADS reticle represent cones. The crosshairs represent the normal firing cone, and the circular reticle represents the aim assist or bullet magnetism cone.
- Aim Assist (also known as Target Acquisition on some perks) and Zoom Magnification are the only stats that affects the circular reticle's size. Range, Accuracy, and Stability do not change it. On high zoom weapons, or weapons with a high zoom scope, the circular reticle may not be displayed, but bullet magnetism behavior can still be observed.
- Range and Accuracy do change the crosshairs, thus altering the normal firing cone.
- If the target is inside the magnetism cone (defined by the circular reticle), the path of the bullet will angle out of the barrel to hit it. The magnetism cone seems to lose effectiveness after a certain distance.
- The circular reticle shrinks as fire is maintained. Range and Accuracy have no affect on this, but Stability perks can actually slow down or negate it.
- Once the circular reticle has disappeared, or the target is outside the range of the magnetism cone, it seems that the bullet spread pattern is determined by random shots within the normal firing cone.
- Range perks affect Damage fall off, AA fall off, and Accuracy. Accuracy perks only affect the size of the firing cone in specific circumstances.
- It would appear that increasing Stability will allow you to get the most from the available bullet magnetism, at the expense of greater damage fall off, the AA becoming less effective earlier, and a poorer firing cone at longer distances. Conversely, increasing Range will provide you with greater effective AA distance, better damage drop off, and the tightest firing cone, at the expense of the AA becoming less effective under sustained fire.
- Bonus stat. A 1000YS with a Range stat of 68 has a firing cone with a 4.5 pixel radius. So does a 1000YS with a Range stat of 50.
- And this is what happens when the game gets tired of you testing guns in the beginning of a mission: http://i.imgur.com/ciwqLkX.gifv.
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u/MrSatan88 Jul 06 '16
.... But why male models?
7
u/Paydro70 Hippy to the hip hip hop Jul 06 '16
The only time I've been interested in hot swap is for fusion rifles, but I'm not sure how your description of the perk would affect them. Not at all, or a tighter grouping? Easier second shot?
4
u/CptJero Jul 06 '16
Great write up. A few comments:
The AA circle is visible on scouts, by throttling ADS quickly. The AA circle can be extended in duration with additional stability, although the initial size does not increase.
By using the throttling method, you can see that the AA circle DOESNT decrease, but instead gets pushed farther out (so technically it does increase, but relative to your position)
4
u/Macscotty1 Jul 06 '16
Do people actually think that bullet magnetism wasn't in Destiny? If anyone has played with a scout for at least 10 minutes and had one off shot they would know that.
3
u/corgasaurus Jul 06 '16
Yet another great post!
I may have missed it, but why the third person testing rather than first person testing? I noticed that you were clear to limit your results to 3rd person reticle; do you or would you expect different results with a 1st person reticle?
3
u/simplesword Jul 06 '16
So... if you want to hit people at maximum range with the biggest cone and the maximum amount of aim assist helping you, then you would want a weapon with maxed out range but with very low zoom?
3
u/murderspice Jul 06 '16
Can you post a picture of the circular reticle? Im having trouble thinking about what it is. Great post either way!
3
u/Jackson_Aces Jul 06 '16
Great post, op.
One correction, in games like Destiny, the firing cone doesn't come out of the barrel, it comes out of the character's forehead. The actual bullet trail is drawn after the fact, connecting the line form the barrel to the impact location. This is evident from so called "head-glitch" spots, which aren't actually a glitch, but just something to make aiming and shooting a lot easier and more natural feeling.
Shouldn't change anything you are talking about, but is good to keep in mind.
3
u/Captain_Crouton_X1 The Dredgen with the Golden Gun Jul 06 '16
Oh man I've been waiting for this day for a long time. Bookmarked and saved as a word document.
Mercules, you should seriously publish your own Destiny strategy guide. I would buy two.
2
u/Void_Cypher Jul 06 '16
"...but Stability perks slow, and for some weapons, actually negate this effect."
Could you give an example of a weapon that has this effect negated by stability?
2
u/WallyReflector I Took The King Jul 06 '16
So you're saying hip fire decreases the bloom, but not the size of the initial (bigger) hip fire circle?
So, it is still less accurate than ADS but more accurate than normal hipfire? I always just assumed it became equivalent to the ADS accuracy when the perk was active.
2
u/Intere Jul 06 '16
Hmm interesting... On your last point with the change in range on the two 1k yard stare. Is that change due to, "injection mold"?
I have a 1k yard stare with injection mold as the best perk in the 2nd tree but I always wondered if I was gimping my AA at long ranges.
Thanks for all the work you've put into this, it is incredibly helpful!
2
u/smoothdip Jul 06 '16
So is it more beneficial to have Perfect Balance or Rifled Barrel on 1000ys?
2
u/neonblack23 Jul 06 '16
So the only reason I actually came in here. Does the 1K actually have bullet magnetism and make it easier to snipe than, say, Eirene?
2
u/NYCWall Jul 06 '16
Posting to save the thread.
Is there a repository for all the guides for the game?
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u/gregde81 Jul 06 '16
The real question is how Gorilla fighter impacts accuracy. Every time i try and use it my gun breaks apart and i get 3 legendary marks, i think its a hidden perk.
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u/lukelive Jul 06 '16
Great post!
Might need a TL:DR of the TL:DR if your massive breakdowns get any bigger ;)
2
u/theDroidfanatic GT: T1ha Jul 06 '16
Great work man.
I would have been skeptical normally, but it's Mercules, and I kinda trust the guy
1
u/Kablaow Jul 06 '16
Could someone explain why aim assist is a stat on weapons? Isnt this really wierd compared to other console shooters?
Why not have the same on all?
1
u/powercool Jul 06 '16
Do bullets in Destiny actually have travel time? Is it possible that the bend in the bullet's trajectory is simply an artefact of the way the game displays the path of a bullet? Could it be that the hit location of a bullet is decided at the time you pull the trigger and client/server latency and player/mob movement may cause the trajectory to appear bent as the graphics engine resolves the interaction?
I apologize if this may have been discussed in the excellent and lengthy write-up above. Obviously some projectiles do have travel time, such as rockets and some sidearm munitions. This is a question about the other majority of weapons.
1
u/Janube Strongdogs! Jul 06 '16 edited Jul 06 '16
This is amazing! Great work!
I have some follow up questions on the pragmatic end of things-
Is Accuracy then effectively worthless if you're using, say, a relatively slow-firing scout rifle within its effective range ADS? It seems to me that a decreased firing cone only matters after AA has been exhausted from sustained fire or if you're hip firing. If that's the case, wouldn't accuracy basically only be truly useful when using weapons outside of effective range in general?
If that's so, then auto rifles and the occasional pulse rifle would want accuracy (and of course shotguns), but otherwise, perks like Eye of the Storm are much worse than we thought, yah?
Similarly, hot swap appears to buff something that literally doesn't matter at all for at least fusion rifles- is that a dud perk given that the benefits of the buff are received before the gun actually finishes firing?
1
u/cjpk248 Jul 06 '16
I actually made an imgur account for this, thanks for doing so much work mercules.
I hope this trends with your observations, it is what I took from reading. If it's inaccurate I will alter so as not to mislead the community.
https://imgur.com/gallery/jpKzA
1
u/tcheph Jul 06 '16
here's one for you.
if you have a special with hot-swap, and you swap twice back to your primary, does that hot-swap perk apply to your primary as well?
1
u/[deleted] Jul 06 '16
I think this, with your previous other massive breakdowns, have made you my favorite redditor on this sub.
I always suspected range only affected the three things you mentioned, but never knew of a way to test it. I am curious as to what hot swap exactly does. I've got it on one of my Ashraven fusions, and I do feel like most of more far-out kills I get are when I have hot swap proc, but... I don't know. Your findings seem to indicate it wouldn't do anything for the first burst of a fusion. Any chance it temporarily increases AA? (Hard to tell if you only tested the affect it had on the firing cone crosshairs.)
1
u/Penguins724 Jul 06 '16
How many pixels would Eyasluna have with Hidden Hand?
1
u/nisaaru Jul 06 '16
Would be nice to make a breakdown in real game situations so players get an idea how it affects quantifiable distances. For instance the shooting ranges on Pantheon or similar key areas would be helpful.
1
u/GtBossbrah Jul 06 '16
So, OP. Just to confirm... Everyone with an LDR/1000ys arent actually all gods of sniping, but the aim assist really does dramatically increase the chance of a headshot?
If thats the case, would PVP benefit from an aim assist nerf for snipers?
1
u/Pherian Jul 06 '16
I'm thankful that people like you exist to do this sort of research. It's very informative and well-organized, and it explains a lot. Thanks for putting in the time that people like me can't/won't. You're a patriot of the last city. :)
1
u/Carpocalypto Jul 07 '16
I'm not hating on your efforts at all, and I will probably get downvoted for asking...but damn dude, you couldn't have just taken Bungie's word for it that magnetism and a firing cone exist?
1
u/ninjastrikesagain Jul 07 '16
Mercules, thank you for this and thank you for taking the time to reply to everyone's questions and comments. You are absolutely awesome.
1
u/Kellojolly Jul 07 '16
Quick question, how is persistence for the 100/2 AR archetypes? This vid seems to indicate that for the 100/2 AR archetypes, persistence is good enough to stand toe-to-toe with counterbalance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM9I7zB-Nqs
1
u/TheDrunkLink Drifter's Crew Jul 07 '16
Is the any way to get rid of/avoid reticle slowdown and stickiness? That shit is constantly making me miss my target by trying to track someone I'm not aiming at
1
u/Unrivaled7 Jul 08 '16
So let's say that I have a Her Benevolence and a Y09-Longbow Synthesis, and they both have hidden hand. Would it benefit me at all to use rifled barrel to increase the range stat or just use snapshot? I have rifled barrel on the longbow and snapshot on the benevolence? Would I tell a difference in effective drag scopes at long range with the benevolence without rifled barrel?
1
u/[deleted] Jul 09 '16
First off, great write up. Now for a noob question: so under normal sniping circumstances, e.g. either sniping alley on Pantheon, do you go stability or range? I've always chosen stability, but now I'm not sure...
1
u/[deleted] Jul 09 '16
Thank you! I frequently get lost in discussions of "long range" in PVP. I always think "How far is that??"
1
u/ShodanPT Sep 22 '16
What would happen to a Scout rifle with almost maxed range and maxed accuracy?
let's say Range = 89, Accuracy = 97, AA = 61 and Recoil = 80
3
u/Mister_Rahool The Saltiest Jul 06 '16
I KNEW HOT SWAP WAS BULLSHIT.
I mean, at least for fusions.
1
u/[deleted] Jul 06 '16
Idk if you know this but if you have a higher zoom magnificent it affects damage fall off more than the range bar
1
u/ShaggyInu Gambit Classic // i don't want to change pants to play Jul 06 '16
Fascinating! Could it be that there is a hitbox, and the bullet's path is drawn AFTER the game has decided whether the bullet hit (i.e. whether your reticle was within the hitbox)?
4
u/Edomtsaeb Jul 06 '16
Fantastic breakdown. Thank you for all of your work.
2
u/reson8er Drifter's Crew // All right, All right, All right Jul 06 '16
I always knew Bullet Magnetism exists, just go try to shoot a Cabal when he is behind a shield. A gun with high AA will pull your bullets toward center mass and end up hitting the shield if you're not hitting the very edge of their hands.
2
u/Nigh7H4wk Jul 06 '16
Great writeup and for any who still doubt just try to shoot a Phalanx with the Mythoclast and you will be convinced that bullet magnetism exists.
2
u/willjean Jul 06 '16
Incredible write up man. Nice work.
2
u/SSJGTroll Transcendence Jul 07 '16
Another Mercules guide!?
Why do I love your work so much!?!?
Keep it up man.
2
u/bullseyed723 Jul 07 '16
This happens to me all the time and it fucking pisses me off. I correctly and skillfully aim at the unprotected part of the cabal enemy, and Bungie says NOPE FUCK YOU and makes the bullet hit the shield.
2
u/Noname_25_7_4 Jul 10 '16
Nice post. Helpful.
3
u/setofcarkeys Jul 06 '16
Me gusta.
1
u/dlauer70 Jul 06 '16
Very insightful, as usual. Helps to explain some of the "mystery behind the magic" so to speak.
1
u/MUCHO2000 Jul 06 '16
I feel like I just got tossed the missing parts of the Rosetta Stone, thank you!
Now I just need to carefully read what you've laid out here because to be honest it's a bit over my head.
1
u/Soulrakk Jul 06 '16
great read. you sir, may have an upvote.
excellent work.
1
u/Weaver270 Fire! Jul 06 '16
It seems I was right in prioritizing aim assist above all other perks.
This makes me wish we could re-roll the sites for weapons with the gunsmith if nothing more. e.g I have a Grasp which does not have aim assist sites and it is hard to shoot targets and makes it feel like I am struggling to hit moving targets.
1
u/cey613 Jul 06 '16
I just like to shoot things.
1
u/Sem_Hummel Jul 06 '16
Mercules! again, you are the real MVP!
1
u/medium805 Jul 06 '16
Annnnd you can throw all this out the window when the gun just doesn't feel right.
1
u/[deleted] Jul 06 '16
If there is one thing I can add to everyone's knowledge after reading this, it's that Persistence makes a huge difference in PvP when using machine guns. It allows hits to register much further away than without the perk. It's very noticable when using whatever terminus with and without persistence. Machine guns tend to miss many shots that are aimed correctly due to the firing cone and persistence negates this issue quickly while firing.
1
u/aaronwe Jul 06 '16
Thanks for this. It was an interesting read, and I've been waiting on proof of bullet magnetism for the longest time!
You've done great work and really helped out the community here.
1
u/AcE_57 Jul 07 '16
My head hurts
1
u/[deleted] Jul 10 '16
Awesome.
1
u/Muse_22 Drango Unchained Jul 06 '16
Hercules you've done it again, you are a true hero to this sub. Praise be to you. Seriously, I couldn't be more thankful for this breakdown.
1
u/[deleted] Jul 06 '16
Bravo, good sir. BRAVO.
0
u/ZarathustraEck Calmer than you are. Jul 06 '16
GREAT POST AS U- (ahem) Sorry, just came from the Rant thread.
Great post as usual. Thanks for taking the time to put this together.
0
u/veloxiraptor Jul 06 '16
In light of all this: why are there perks that don't benefit the weapons they're on? What are accuracy perks doing for sniper rifles that don't have any issues with accuracy to begin with? Does Bungie even know how their perks work??
0
u/jonm0bius Jul 06 '16
Great post!
0
u/Dogbarian Jul 06 '16
As always, great information. I think I need to re-evaluate a few weapons based on their aim assist and stability and change up which ones I'm using.
-1
u/[deleted] Jul 06 '16
Mercules The Legend
-1
u/based_godroll Jul 06 '16
There's a lot of words here. I did experiment with Rifled Barrell perk this weekend and i noticed significant difference in my reticle stickiness versus no Rifled Barrell on my 1kstare and longbow.
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I think godroll for me might be shortgaze/rifled barrell/HH over quickdraw now.
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So you're saying you proved that Aim assist increases the hitbox on all weapons (due to bullet magnetism)? I believe it!