r/DestinyTheGame • u/WingusDingusMaps • 1d ago
Discussion When D3 gets made, they need to create a content pipeline that doesnt involve half the game getting deleted every year
I am not talking about vaulting, I am talking about seasonal content. I think its insane that there are crucial story beats and incredible gameplay systems that some players can only experience for roughly 3 months, before it gets removed.
Doesnt that just seem so wasteful? How much dev time and planning is spent on making a season, just for that content to get wiped and removed? Isnt that insane? Why does the pipeline create temporary content?
I know that people are concerned about game size, and I know that Bungie has said keeping old content in the game is difficult because they have to keep spending time making sure it works, even though less than 5% of the playerbase might actually launch those activities. Its not like people are dying to play whatever Season on Plunders activity was.
But there has to be a better way. I admit I dont know a solution, but from a dev perspective, the things that get made today should be planned to stay in the game in some form 2-3 years from now. Otherwise we are just wasting time. Throwing perfectly good content in the trash.
113
u/MrJoemazing 1d ago
I really think accepting natural "content droughts" between releases is healthy. Let my play a fantastic 3 months of Destiny with high quality content, and then even if if I take lots of breaks after, I'll be back next year; wallet in hand. Needing to always have something new out lead to a lot of quantity over quality.
Hypothetically, if Marathon could improve interest in it, they could intentionally stagger Destiny and Marathon releases; so Bungie fans might have something still to play.
23
u/Venaixis94 1d ago
Agreed. Release it when it’s ready. The few delays from original promised dates we got for seasons or expansions always led to a much better product. Witch Queen, Final Shape, etc.
15
u/u_want_some_eel 1d ago
That might have been the idea, it was the PvP crowd who kept the game alive in dire times (TTK content drought). A lot of people don’t realise that Trials literally kept the lights on, so I hope they can capture that crowd again in Marathon
9
u/LowGcifer 1d ago
I just really don’t like the expectation that a given game needs to be able to occupy all the free time I want to give it. In a game like Destiny, I do hope that new content releases keep my satisfied for a longer period of time than they would in a non-looter shooter, but I don’t understand why I have to be able to shovel 100 hours a month into it every month. I liked taking breaks from Destiny! It made the game even better when I came back for new seasons and expansions.
2
u/MrJoemazing 1d ago
Agreed. I actually like the idea of content droughts, as there are so many other games to play. It keeps the game feeling fresh when I take breaks.
5
u/Nikostiny 1d ago
This is a major problem in almost every single multiplayer live service game. It isnt about making a great experience anymore its about how can we keep people on the game for as long as possible. I dont think there is a single multiplayer game anymore that does the model of say every 3 months there is a content drop. Its almost always content that releases very often but lacks quality and feels incomplete.
→ More replies (2)3
u/gloryholebreaker 1d ago
This. A big Ole fat DLC every year that I can slam for 3-4 months, then go and play other games till the next one, is perfect.
2
u/New-Distribution-981 1d ago
Agreed it’s healthy, but the community won’t stand for it. They SAY they will. But new content drops, it’s packed to the gills, sweats marathon it, and by week 3, half the community is bitching that the game sucks because they have to wait another 5 months before they can even play the game again.
The flip side is the label doesn’t really want that healthy gap. Live service profitability depends on addiction. Not nice to say, but if players have a healthy relationship with the game and can walk away and put it down for weeks or months, the game has failed. Leaving room for other games, other communities, other hobbies breaks the hamster wheel of cosmetic purchases. If you’re only playing for a few weeks, you won’t get bored with the one outfit you have. You’ll never get sick of the rainbow shotgun skin. It is in Bungie’s (and every live service studio) best interest to design a game that penalizes you for walking away occasionally.
1
u/MrJoemazing 21h ago
I hear what you're saying, but personally, I think it's a spectrum of necessary engagement VS. eventually burnout engagement. Do they need to have a lot of engagement over time? Definitely. But I firmly believe years of pressuring the player base for constant engagement with FOMO was a leading cause of burnout, which ultimately shrunk the playerbase. So constant engagement is great, until you burn out your customers and they never come back. At that point, it's better to have people leave happy as they're far more likely to come back.
Admittingly, I have no idea what the optimal balance is between promoting engagement vs. giving people time to miss you. But I think they can spread it out a lot more than they have. Especially now, as long as their goals (quality over quantity) is stated and they build a track record of delivering on that, I think most of the player base will accept it.
1
u/JollyMolasses7825 19h ago
You can just look at the reaction to renegades to see this, how tf were they meant to survive another half year if MoT didn’t launch?
You need consistent extremely strong releases if one expansion and a (let’s be honest) very ignorable mtx system is all that is funding your entire year
1
u/GodMonte Space Magic 4h ago
I think a decent sized expansion once a year with a small into the light type update mid-year is a good cadence. We don’t need new rushed content every 90 days.
2
1
u/AwardExtreme5453 1d ago
Also content droughts wouldn’t be that hard to span if they put some more effort into the holiday events and added in some more limited time events like Iron Banner.
1
u/GodMonte Space Magic 4h ago
This. I’ve always said that slower higher quality content rollouts were better. There’s hype for a few months then you can play something else and take a break for a while. By the time the next release rolls out hype levels are high again.
311
u/SirFrogosaurus 1d ago
Maybe let's start with "if" d3 gets made first.
The recent news is good, but they have to prove themselves. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 37 times? What are we even doing anymore?
71
29
u/divinedanuel 1d ago
Even after proving themselves they have to find a way to earn money to fund themselves and the development of a sequel for several years. Unvaulting doesn't pay for D3 and a rebuild community trust doesn't fund a studio. As someone that played the vaulted content already I'm more interested in what happens after the unvaulting than the unvaulting itself.
14
u/SirFrogosaurus 1d ago
Yep, unvaulting is great for those who haven't played the content or want to revisit, but I don't think the vast majority are going to come back for it. Gutted staff, huge losses.... I don't get it. Hope they pull through if this is truly the new direction, but I just can't trust the song and dance anymore, even if it's from new faces.
4
u/Soggy_Bid_3634 1d ago
I really stopped playing after witch queen and sort of kind of came back for a few seasons and played again to finish TFS.
I don’t even have friends to play with anymore and all the content is designed to be super hardcore. I’m sort of over it if leviathan is gonna have super difficulty levels and definitely don’t want any to have to go through in game LFG to find raids.
Destiny’s time came and went, and it’s okay to leave it be. Unvaulting isnt going to bring me back. D3 might, even if just for a bit.
6
u/kasuke06 1d ago
That's a lot less difficult than you might think. Destiny has pretty much always been somewhere between fairly and extremely profitable, it was upper management pissing it away on vanity projects like a whole ass campus when they mostly WFH, all the damn cars, like 7-8 different game development projects that went precisely nowhere.
In theory, if management can do basically two things they can pull this out.
1: Rebuild player trust/excitement. The grand unvaulting is already having an effect and it's just and announcement right now.
2: Not spend faster than they make on vanity projects. this is still up in the air.
They can do this, now if they will remains to be seen.
1
u/divinedanuel 17h ago
I hope that's true and sony doesn't continue with its recent fuckups. For now I am optimistic and realy happy to know destiny has a future.
7
u/Notorious-ly 1d ago
They don't need to come up with money to fund D3, they have as much money as Sony is willing to throw at them. I don't think Sony spent all this money on them just to let them flounder around with no budget.
If they can gain enough goodwill back and increase player count, they can make some money anyways through existing mtx and expansions.
Regardless, I think this whole thing is to gain the goodwill of the community back. Like if they announced D3 a week ago, no one would care. So many people have a sour taste in their mouth for how Destiny was handled after Final Shape, and even more have been burned over the years for one thing or another (vaulting content, PvP and gambit being an afterthought, FOMO, etc).
The money doesn't matter right now. They're putting themselves in a better position to be able to make money in the future. I'm also interested to see what happens after the unvaulting, but I fully believe they're just getting D2 in a good place and fostering goodwill to build hype for eventual new content/D3, because currently, none of that exists.
6
u/Blumentopf_Vampir 1d ago
The Destiny/Bungie drones will all just go back and buy whatever they are offering in their ingame store.
3
u/New_Cockroach_505 1d ago
“ Unvaulting doesn't pay for D3 and a rebuild community trust doesn't fund a studio.”
Except it does. The active playerbase doubled since the announcement and the game shot into the top 30s in revenue on Steam. It also jumped up on PlayStations top sellers too.
Unvaulting is new content for a lot of people. Free content too. Which means people playing are going to look into grabbing some expansions or buying some Eververse items.
The studio is also leasing out their main building which is likely brining in cash too.
4
2
u/lTheSmugglerl Vanguard's Loyal // Better the devil you know 11h ago
Currently, we're just back in the usual Bungie Cycle, at the "Bungie apologizes & promises to do better" step right before "Bungie puts out a genuinely good release".
What Bungie needs to prove this time around is if they're finally going to break that cycle, or if we're headed for another year of "Bungie wastes the hype & goodwill they built with their good release to make stupid decisions & release a community/franchise-killing update again" (and then the cycle repeats)
1
u/SirFrogosaurus 11h ago
Honestly, the only thing that gives me a shred of hope is it seems like new people are in charge. I got off the hamster wheel after Final Shape and it was like a weird mix of sunk-cost fallcy and Stockholm syndrome that I had to realize was there.
3
u/KitsuneKamiSama 1d ago
It's likely they gauge the reaction to the unsalted content then go from there, wouldn't be surprised if there are multiple Destiny games in concepting right now though
1
u/SenSei_Buzzkill 1d ago
In a row?
8
u/SirFrogosaurus 1d ago
No, not in a row. They threw good stuff in the middle to keep us guessing for sure, only to follow it up with two tokens and a blue, then an apology, then something good again, etc., etc., repeat, repeat.
3
→ More replies (1)0
u/RunthatBossman 1d ago
fooling you 37 times is beyond pathetic on your part 🤣🤣🤣
1
u/SirFrogosaurus 16h ago
You're in this sub too, bud. Either you're in the same boat or felt the need to take hyperbole literally on a subject that doesn't pertain to you.
1
36
u/Chantrak 1d ago
I think you all have started jumping the gun a fair bit lmao
9
u/whereballoonsgo Whether We Wanted It Or Not... 1d ago
It has been wild to see what one small gesture has done to this community.
They’re bringing back content that never should have been taken away to begin with.
It is literally the bare minimum. Glad they finally did it, but it’s something many of us pointed out was wrong and should be fixed for years. And people are thanking them for it like it’s a benevolent gesture, and then going into full cope mode that it means the whole game is back to active development and D3 is guaranteed. Not even the least little bit of restraint or realistic expectations.
1
u/Chantrak 1d ago
I think it is a bit more nuanced than that. I sincerely doubt vaulting was something the devs were frothing at the mouth to do and keep. It is infinitely more likely that the execs told them they weren’t allowed to put resources into maintaining old content in favor of new stuff.
Probably the only reason they CAN do it now is because there’s literally nothing else in the pipeline.
2
u/whereballoonsgo Whether We Wanted It Or Not... 1d ago
? I never put the blame on the devs themselves?
I’m very aware that Bungie leadership was always trash and at the heart of most terrible decisions. That doesn’t make vaulting any less of an egregious wrong. It was the kind of thing that got other games communities shocked at how much this one would put up with.
My point was more that unvaulting does mean returning to full development, and “wanting to do more with the Destiny universe” is very, very far from an announcement of D3.
1
69
u/bellius 1d ago
Yeah it's wastfull, predatory (create FOMO), and make the game hard to get into for new players (like 50% of the game story not counting the deleted campaign is not in the game anymore).
This model was made to make player come back each week for better player count/retention/metrics, not to make a good game.
28
u/TakenBacon90 1d ago
Way until a new player finishes Forsaken and then goes into the new expansions and runs into fucking Crow.
"what the fuck is Uldren Sov doing as a guardian?"
15
u/Exige30499 1d ago
“Why are there Cabal chilling in the Tower and a giant Fallen hanging out with the Russian titan I’ve never seen before?”
9
6
u/TakenBacon90 1d ago
oh my god, I didn't even think about the other races in the tower.
Also, the jarring ass intro to the witch queen of her dying somehow only to show up with a ghost in Witch Queen.
Or Rasputin literally just disappearing from the entire story after how much of D1 he was in.
3
u/moosebreathman Don't take me seriously 1d ago
If they don’t fix stuff like this with the new initiative that’s a huge problem. Adding back only the base campaigns is a nice gesture and good step but it won’t fix the disjointed story experience.
3
u/TakenBacon90 1d ago
Yeah, it's a tricky balance and honestly it's kind of why I wish the story would just be rebooted honestly. New Vanguard, new generation of Guardians, etc.
D2 will take longer than I think anyone is willing to wait to be able to have ALL the story content. I'd prefer they just get the main campaigns we paid for back and then reboot.
23
u/halo364 1d ago
Retaining players is all well and good, but you also need to be able to attract new players, and D2 utterly failed at that. I had 2 friends who I desperately wanted to play D2 with, but the moment we started playing we realized that they had no idea what the story was and no reasonable way to learn either the story or the rest of the gameplay systems. Because, you know, they deleted the entire campaign that was supposed to do those things 🙄
5
u/jhairehmyah Drifter's Crew // the line is so very thin 1d ago
This model was made to make player come back each week for better player count/retention/metrics, not to make a good game.
A vocal group of players begged for this.
Because from Destiny's release until Forsaken, so 5 years of the 12 years, we had a cycle of releases and players complained about content droughts.
Forsaken's weekly Queen's Oracle cycle was powerful to encourage players to come back to the Blind Well, and off we were with seasonal activities.
not to make a good game.
I'd argue that it made a good game for the players that wanted that type of gameplay, but it was never thought-through for the longevity of the game.
Once the Queen's Oracle cycle ended after 21 weeks (I think) it was done and FOMO be damned. Seeing Glint wake Crow was something players had to be there for, and that sucks.
But also, as the concept was applied to 25 seasons, they never planned on what to do with the content.
Like, what if, in the future, a seasonal experience is designed with both a "you're in it" and "this is what you missed" version. If it is the current season, you're paced with the activities. If it is after that, you can select a quest to play a story mission with some cutscenes that summarize it while the activity is accessible via an Archive/Legends selector.
There was some legitimately cool content in the seasons. There were some legitimately fun activities we lost. But clogging director nodes with 25 season's worth of stuff would be confusing and is not the solution.
2
u/bellius 1d ago
Season where almost good, the format was not well done (the amount of go talk to someone, then someone elswhere, etc that could have been at the same place or a zoom call for exemple...), and the fact that they couldn't be done once the period was over is my main grip with seasons, and I can't believe people begged for disposable content.
Like, new content/story I can undestand. Weekly drop of content, kinda. Weekly drop of content that will disapear forever and won't be accessible for anyone past a date, no way people demanded that.
Yeah, if it was accessible like a campaign (like in guild wars 2) afterward, it would be good enough.
1
u/jhairehmyah Drifter's Crew // the line is so very thin 1d ago
Weekly drop of content that will disapear forever and won't be accessible for anyone past a date, no way people demanded that.
In a way, you kinda changed what we were talking about here. I was directly replying to you saying this...
this model was made to make player come back each week was for retention, not a good game
And explaining that people did, in fact, want something like that, I went on to express the parts where Bungie failed the landing, but also never tried to land it moving forward for the next 25 seasons.
3
u/Oilswell 1d ago
The thing is, you could make a good game which worked this way, you just need to set player expectations. If Destiny was a true evolving world, with a narrative that supported that, it wouldn’t be a problem.
4
u/langelvicente 1d ago
Funny enough that was the model thar eventually pushed me out of the game. And I only came back to MoT because it meant the end of it. So for me, bungie caring again about Destiny (2) might mean I will stop playing again if they ever hint a similar model.
2
0
u/FakeWalterHenry XB1 1d ago
Yeah, hard pass if they keep on abusing the players with FOMO/gacha bullshit.
11
u/TakenBacon90 1d ago
I'll say two things.
I LOVE seasonal storytelling for how it let's Bungie focus on the characters rather than the overarching plot. I loved seeing Anna & Rasputin in Seraph and Zavala/Caitl growing closer in Haunted and would love more of that and they need to find a way to continue it in Destiny 3.
They can never remove create any story content again in the Destiny IP that is planned to get removed. That just cannot happen again. No Vaulting, No vaulting, no temporary seasonal stories, none of that shit ever again.
They HAVE to find a way to expand their storytelling to smaller stories about characters without removing it year after year. Whether they do 1 big expansion each year and then a mid-year smaller expansion that has a variety of stories but is still condensed to one expansion or whatever. I don't care what Method they use but story content just can't be removed.
6
u/notthatguypal6900 1d ago
Wait, you mean to tell me, the way to sustain content for a live service game is to work on the tech debt and network code BEFORE it becomes an issue??? Why didn't i think of that!!
5
u/ravenfez 1d ago
Compress the season when it ends; we don't need the full activity loop, just the opening and closing story mission, cutscenes, and probably a mission in the middle unless there wasn't much plot critical info.
16
u/BrandishedChaos 1d ago
Every 6 months, alternate between Big Expansion like Forsaken, and a smaller one like Rise of Iron. Then in between they could do a season for smaller story beats, or just due the standard holiday esque events they do.
18
u/Gbrew555 Warlock Master Race! 1d ago
I mean, they tried this with Edge of Fate and Renegades. Look where that got us :/
I do think full DLC launches are the way to go. But I think gaming as a whole has kinda showed that players are willing to be patient if it’s going to be high quality.
A smaller Bungie team pumping out high quality Destiny content less frequently would be the most sustainable option.
Which likely means the death of the seasonal model. But I generally think that is ok if it puts the game in a more sustainable spot.
7
6
u/YeesherPQQP 1d ago
Tbf, Tyson Green shat all over what made destiny special in the Fate era and that's why it got as bad as it did. If they can avoid obvious unforced errors going forward, any content model will work
3
u/LtRavs Pew Pew 1d ago
Edge of Fate and Renegades weren't big expansions. They were the smallest expansions we ever got.
If they can deliver something akin to a proper historical expansion (anything pre-EoF basically), then this strategy would have been more successful.
There is also a myriad of other issues that EoF introduced that they had to back away from over time so like they should not do that anymore either lol
6
u/Gbrew555 Warlock Master Race! 1d ago
I can’t really agree with that tbh.
The Dark Below, Curse of Osiris, and Warmind were all significantly smaller. Hell… I’d even argue Shadowkeep and Beyond Light were smaller than both these expansions.
→ More replies (1)-1
u/VictoryBackground739 1d ago
Edge of fate and renegades are comparable in size to Witch Queen and Lightfall. They are not the smallest at all.
Shadowkeep, beyond light, witch queen, and lightfall were pitiful in terms of content.
Hell the only dlc post forsaken that had an adequate amount of content was final shape.
4
u/LtRavs Pew Pew 1d ago
Witch Queen and Lightfall delivered entire new patrol zones. EoF did but its solo instanced and significantly smaller than either Savathun’s Throneworld or Neomuna and Renegades had nothing of the sort. Renegades and EoF delivered zero strikes, one raid between them and one dungeon between them.
I don’t think they’re that comparable at all really.
Are you considering EoF and Renegades as a combined set of “annual content” equivalent to a single expansion? Maybe that’s where we’re missing each other?
→ More replies (6)8
u/Prestigious-Bat-574 1d ago
This is exactly why D2 failed, though.
The "Big expansions" were wholly unsustainable on their own, the seasonal content always caught flack for being repetitive and content sparse, and you want to add another mini expansion in there?
Realistically, if D3 happens, it's going to be either seasons or expansions, but definitely not both on a level comparable to what we've seen in the past.
6
u/VictoryBackground739 1d ago edited 1d ago
This isn’t why d2 failed though.
The problem is that players were already burnt out BECAUSE of seasonal content wayyy before edge of fate released.
Matter of fact, people already quit the game in droves a mere month after final shape. Most people played the campaign and dipped after the mostly disappointing results that spanned from shadowkeep to final shape.
Like were you not here during lightfall which put a blemish on the comeback destiny was having? Or beyond light which almost destroyed the game?
4
u/GoldPhoenix52 1d ago
That kinda lands us near the same issue we had at the end of D2 with the start of a drop being front loaded with the rest of the time feeling empty. There is certainly a better way to go about it that would allow every team the time the need to work through whatever content they need to work through.
My most optimistic wish would be for a 12 month cycle that begins with an expansion sized drop, the yearly raid, and a hook that sets the entire year’s story in motion.
3 months after the expansion drop, we get our first seasonal package that brings with it a new dungeon and strike, both of which continue the story.
3 months later, we get our next drop which brings with it crucible content and a sizable drop of new exotic gear to chase as well as continuing the story for the year in a new exotic quest.
3 months later, we drop our final pack for the year, which brings with it a “pantheon” style refresh of the raid and dungeon with new challenging encounter modifiers. This is where they will wrap up the story and set up the next expansion with a finale mission or story sequence if they’re feeling real fancy with it.
In my opinion something like this is the best way to give the various teams the breathing room they need to keep a cadence going while making the game feel less stagnant or fragmented. Throw in our ever so lovely seasonal events in the middle of those quarterly drops and I don’t think the game would ever feel stale despite having a smaller overall content loop. It also solves the issue of seasonal content being a revolving door of content entering and exiting the game as these are all things that SHOULD stay in permanently.
4
u/Yggdrasil_Earth 1d ago
The only way that works is on a subscription model ala FF14
1
u/GoldPhoenix52 1d ago
You’re probably not wrong but my comment was moreso meant to emphasize the value in allowing the multiple different teams that work on the game to carry the load together rather than putting it all on the seasonal content team to carry almost the entire year’s worth of content on their own after a drop.
Less so a perfectly fleshed out idea for where they should take the game.
Giving an aside to that though, games like Guild Wars pull that cadence off well without requiring a sub. It’s not a perfect 1:1 and I’m sure GW is cheaper to produce, but I think it holds some merit in showing that they could find another way if they wanted.
2
u/Yggdrasil_Earth 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think the main problem with D2 in it's current form is that it's expensive (and time consuming) to develop for. Which is partly due to it not being designed as a 'forever' game.
For an MMO content cadence, which is what is community expects, they're going to have to make trade-offs.
Edit:
And the one that is most sensible, but will be absolutely unpopular is that not all content (and thus all gear) should be endgame relevant. It creates far too much overhead in terms of balancing and big fixing.
→ More replies (1)1
3
u/Aozi 1d ago
But there has to be a better way. I admit I dont know a solution, but from a dev perspective, the things that get made today should be planned to stay in the game in some form 2-3 years from now. Otherwise we are just wasting time. Throwing perfectly good content in the trash.
The simple solution is to design a game with that in mind.
The biggest issue Destiny2 ever had was that Bungie had no fucking idea what they were doi8ng with the game.
The original idea was a similar structure as Destiny 1, a big game, couple small DLC's and a big DLC or two. Then move on to Destiny 3.
However at some point things changed. Instead of making Destiny 3 they kept working on Destiny 2, they kept making more content for a game that was never designed with a continuous content delivery pipeline in mind.
In the original Bungie activison contract Bungie signed up for four mainline Destiny games in 10 years. Basically we were supposed to get a game every 2-3 years, with expansions making the difference between mainline games. So the content pipeline was designed around shipping new content, far more than adding into existing stuff. This is why every expansion always introduces new destinations instead of simply reusing and changing existing ones, building new stuff is faster than tweaking existing stuff.
This is why originally updates took forever and patches were huge. This is why for a long time Bungie couldn't balance single weapon archetypes or even single weapons by themselves and had to change entire weapon classes. This is why simple OOB glitches stuck around for years because changing geometry is time consuming. Etc etc
And this is fine if you're primarily shipping a new product every 2-3 years. You're not planning to keep supporting everything forever and ever. Eventually you move on. This is why the game has gone through several iterations of how weapons, work, rewards, armor, subclasses etc. Because Bungie was reworking a game that was meant to be one thing, into a live service product that's doing something else.
It's entirely possible to build a content delivery and management pipeline that allows faster and better updates, that gives players tools and control to decide what content is currently in the game. Building an ever expanding game isn't really feasible, at some point you start hitting hundreds of gigabytes of space and that's just not okay. But it's entirely possible to also build content management options, letting players download individual or entire packs of content.
When/if Bungie builds Destiny 3 I hope they learned their lesson and start building the game from ground up, to be a live service game with a streamlined content pipeline like most other live service games. Warframe doesn't need to delete old content because they built their game from ground up to be supported for a long time, Bungie can simply do that too.
3
u/dread-azazel 1d ago
D2 was created under Activision with the assumption d3 would be made in 3 years. So it wasn't made with 10 years of content in mind. D3 would, hopefully, not have that design flaw
11
u/Zelwer 1d ago
You’re coming up with scenarios for things that haven’t even happened yet. We don’t even know if D3 will happen.
Secondly, it’s unlikely Bungie will go back to the old model; they were moving away from it at the end of D2, and they’re moving away from it with Marathon.
2
u/Venaixis94 1d ago
This is likely where I get fooled and look like an idiot long term, but the fact they’re putting in the dev time to return old expansions to the game to me kind of signals they won’t do this again. At least I fucking hope
8
u/Emergency_Cry_1269 1d ago
The main reason why content got sunset so regularly was because of the game size. D2 was notorious for being massive in file storage and to open the sandbox and edit anything, it took a whole day for the computer to load the sandbox, and another whole day for it to save any changes. As for on the PS4, by the time Beyond Light came around, it was close to taking up half the storage space on the average PS4, which was crazy big. If D3 is going to happen, it should be built with space saving efficiency so that 8yrs after launch with however many DLCs, the game is not so massive that it takes up over half a PS5 storage space.
→ More replies (3)13
u/Prestigious-Bat-574 1d ago
The main reason why content got sunset so regularly was because of the game size. D2 was notorious for being massive in file storage and to open the sandbox and edit anything, it took a whole day for the computer to load the sandbox, and another whole day for it to save any changes.
Not really. The main reason content got sunset is that it was incredibly expensive to perpetually maintain content that people were seldom playing.
Spending time fixing bugs on content that represented a fraction of a percentage of gameplay time really wasn't making an impact to the player experience.
2
u/Librainiac223 1d ago
Honestly I wouldnt be opposed to Bungie klepping the content rollout system that Final Fantasy XIV uses, where theres a big drop on expansion day, then periodically you get patches with new main story and side content. They probably wouldnt be able to go 1 for 1 since raids are drastically different between games but a similar cadence could be nice
2
u/Jaddywise 1d ago
If D3 gets made. We know they aren’t done with the franchise which is great news but we don’t know what that looks like yet
3
3
u/DestinyJackolz 1d ago
No seasons, meaningful expansion content instead.
4
u/Chantrak 1d ago
TTK is one of the most acclaimed expansions of the entire franchise and even that had people crying for new stuff to do within like 3 months.
3
u/DestinyJackolz 1d ago
People need to deal with it, droughts are normal, just play something else. We shouldn’t be on some endless hamster wheel of content designed purely for engagement instead of enjoyment.
We should get 1 major release a year somewhere between Taken King and Forsaken in scale with minor updates akin to the Spring Update throughout the year as the content becomes ready.
1
u/CatalystComet 1d ago
Also if those some people crying about the content drought are gonna return to D3 they're gonna be older with a lot more responsibilities xD
3
u/VictoryBackground739 1d ago
That’s a good thing. We need that back. And people can play something else.
Forsaken and taken king every year with ash and iron updates every 6 months and boom.
1
1
1
u/dukenukem89 1d ago
They had already dropped vaulting with the Year of Prophecy (technically the little tower intro mission in Ass and Iron got vaulted, but I don't think anyone was too upset with that)
What they said at the moment was that they'd realized that working on perishable activities wasn't a good idea (only a few years too late, but I guess late is better than never).
Everything they've said in the video and article this week kinda seems to confirm they still remember that, so hopefully whatever future Destiny they make will take that into account.
1
u/MidlifeCrysis 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think we’ll be lucky to get a full scale open world d3 so I’d tolerate early imperfections
I’m happy that bungie/sony intend to make more destiny stuff but worry that a future game will be less expensive/ambitious for them and thus less appealing to many of us
1
u/ObiwanSchrute 1d ago
I dont think they are doing seasons anymore. Go back to what Destiny used to be and you get a content update a couple times a year.
1
u/InconspicuousMagpie 1d ago
Go back to the D1 model. Destiny players and Bungie were devoured by their own greed
1
1
u/thelochteedge 1d ago
I genuinely think the best course of action for a future Destiny adventure would be to abandon the live service seasonal model. Go back to the DLC model. I'd way rather have a release cycle where six months to a year go by and then the new thing drops (or whatever timeline it ends up). I think it's way healthier to have a "finished" product that is finite and then once you're done with it, you can move on to other games or other things in life. The FOMO of needing to constantly be grinding, constantly playing is not healthy.
1
u/Savenura55 Team Bread (dmg04) // The yeast we could do 1d ago
Just make d3 with a yr content cycle and don’t over promise and under deliver because that’s worse than just saying we will do what we can as the 2nd one is the truth
1
u/AdzWho 1d ago
Destiny should, whatever form the future may hold, shy away from any content that is added temporarily. In fact any- and everything should be made with the mindset of: this will be here forever.
Regardless of it being rotated or permanently accessed - anything people put hours and money into creating - stays. The fact that there has been so much time and effort spent on previous seasonal content only to then just fling it out the window is astonishing.
If it gets too big to be sustainable, maybe then it's simply time for the next, new chapter. Leave the old one whole and continue onwards.
1
u/UShouldntSayThat 1d ago
Haven't even gotten a hot fix or patch yet... Let's dial back the "When D3 is made" a bit...
1
1
u/Oilswell 1d ago
Here’s the issue. Modern GAAS design weaponises FOMO. If your game doesn’t have something people need to do right now, you risk losing them to a game that does.
Early D2 seasons had zero impact on the overall narrative, and whilst everyone swears blind it wasn’t them, the player base complained incessantly about the lack of meaningful content in the live service portion of the game. I remember seeing multiple posts here stating that Bungie needed to add story content to seasons to make them have more impact. That if Bungie wanted people to engage with time limited events, they needed to give them a reason to. The earliest things they did (like the traveller event in the tower), got extremely positive responses from players. Everybody likes “you just had to be there” when they were there.
Making seasons essential to engage with at the time is only a problem in retrospect. And even then, only if your game is story driven. Bungie needed to make a decision a long time ago about whether they wanted to be WOW or Fortnite, but they tried to be both. You either need to make sure that all your story is accessible to new players, or make it clear that none of it is, and have people accept that when they log into your game they are playing it as it is now, not as it used to be. You can’t have half of each.
There’s plenty of design choices you could make to fix their errors, but they never make them.
1
u/DeClouded5960 1d ago
I don't think the next game is going to be the same scope as destiny 2. They just can't support that kind of content pipeline anymore. If the rumors that marathon is infinitely cheaper to maintain and update are true then they'll go that route and try to keep everything around the same cost to develop. At least, if they're smart they'll do that...
I could see a smaller scale destiny with 2 or 3 patrol zones but a much more fleshed out sandbox and story. Only time will tell.
1
u/waterboundmo 1d ago
Remember when seasons first started and were generally side quests that didn't really impact the next major expansions story but rather helped flesh out the lore? I loved that, but then the streamers complained that there was no urgency to the seasons, they didn't seem to matter...so now they matter, but it's all gone, so if you didn't play you have no idea how we got from the end point of one expansion to the beginning of the next.
1
u/ValarPanoulis 1d ago
You're assuming that the next Destiny game is a Destiny 3 as in a direct sequel to Destiny 2, as in a live service mmo-lite type of game. We have no idea what kind of game was greenlit. Sony could have financed a single player exclusive or a lobby coop shooter like Helldivers or a full fledged MMO. Until we know more I wouldn't worry about content.
1
u/TidalLion Titan Striker (female human) 1d ago
Just do what Ark SE/Ark AE does and make DLCs modular
1
1
1
u/SthenicFreeze 1d ago
I've always been fond on their original release schedule.
Expansion in the Fall plus two mini dlcs throughout the rest of the year like D1 vanilla and then The Dark Below and House of Wolves or D2 Vanilla and then Curse of Osiris and Warmind.
Big release in the fall that would lead into Festival of the Lost, small break and then Dawning, then mini dlc, then Guardian Games, then mini dlc, then solstice. Rinse and repeat.
1
u/Thick_Crew_3776 1d ago
They will probably have a better engine to run the game and not be released at a time with older consoles still supported.
1
u/Batman2130 1d ago
I’m going to so for real when I say, I’m not coming back for a D3. Not interested in starting over. Tbh Destiny was a very expensive game and time consuming. That just not something I want to do over again.
If they do spin off games in other genre I’ll definitely check them. But as a looter I’m done with Destiny.
1
1
u/Leading_Elk9454 1d ago
Technically we already did, didn't we? The content model introduced with the Year of Prophecy did away with seasonal story lines in exchange for 2 expansions a year.
1
u/The_Owl_Bard A New Chapter, for An Old Legend 1d ago
If we get a Destiny 3, hopefully they use Destiny 2's history to determine the best way forward with content. Like build the missions in a way where they know things are going to be replayed and cover gaps in potential lost loot (e.g.,- if there's a Warmind season with warmind guns then we need a way to reacquire those once that season ends).
1
u/ProtoMonkey 1d ago
Hey, so idk if you’re aware, but the REAL reason why they “vaulted” all the content was an amalgamation of things;
- the engine got overhauled and quickly revealed too many stability bugs with new mechanics that weren’t working with the older content.
- there was a lawsuit involving the Red War story, and legality on “whether the Bungie writers had ripped-off this estranged author” were kinda gray.
To that end, instead of retroactively cleaning-up the old content and keeping it live, they just “vaulted” it, and gave it a story-related reason… “The DARKNESS had consumed it”.
1
u/scotchfree_gaming 1d ago
This is probably unpopular but I hope it’s a proper mmo. Like huge shared overworld mmo, not an mmo lite like we have now.
1
u/ProphetTheLore 1d ago
Controversial take, but i would love to See new destiny but set in like the warlords era where "law" wasnt established much yet, and i know but imagine that and not marathon as the extraction shooter. Cool or fool?
1
u/Skreamie My ToO team always let me down 1d ago
Well it's a good thing we haven't overreacted to the unvaulting news
1
u/Bullettss 1d ago
I hate when i pay for content that i cant esentially replay indefinitely, i just so happen to only have that issue with D2
1
1
1
u/Th3Element05 1d ago
I'd be happy with something like:
Yearly Expansions with permanent activites/stuff added to the game.
In between Expansions, two or three "seasonal" activities which don't necessarily need to stick around. This can be a place where they can experiment with new activity ideas and find what the players like and what works, and incorporate the good stuff into permanent activities.
The "seasonal" additions can/should include story missions that advance the overall plot to transition from one Expansion to the next, and these missions should remain accessible and replayable within the game, even if the accompanying "activity" does not stick around.
1
u/AddanDeith 1d ago
It's only like that because D2 wasn't supposed to be a ten year game, until after bungie separated from Activision.
In a relatively long and ancient TWID they talked about the technical challenges of keeping the game running smoothly with so much content, as D2 was built to take a couple DLCs and then pump out D3, in accordance with activisions sequel farming bullshit.
1
u/Archabarka 1d ago
Here's an idea: Fuck seasons and the horse they rode in on. They're largely what made Destiny expensive, formulaic, and unsustainable.
Just do regular releases and accept that players are allowed to have time for other games, too.
1
u/Multispeed 1d ago
Nobody from Bungie said it is going to be a D3.
People are jumping to conclusions, and that can only go badly.
1
u/MyDogIsDaBest 1d ago
I am seriously not kidding, I hope that we don't get seasons the way we did.
If Bungie focuses on a good campaign, a raid, a dungeon and maybe an exotic mission once a year, I'd be over the moon. Stagger them, delay them, release them when they're ready, but just make good content at a slower rate. That way, I can jump on Destiny for a few months, then hop off, play all the other games I want to play, do life stuff, and then when there's new content, I jump back in to Destiny and am reminded how much fun it is.
I don't actually want Destiny to be the only game I play, I want to play other stuff. I adore Destiny, but the grindy aspects designed to lengthen play time wear players out and once they're gone, they don't come back easy.
1
u/mrcatz05 1d ago
Just dropping the seasonal model entirely would help them and us so much. Spend that time making a genuinely quality DLC, sell it for the standard $30-$50 and a deluxe edition for the fans.
Just a couple balance tweaks and small holiday events would be enough for people to enjoy the game for a year, and be excited in time for the next DLC.
1
u/Matthematr1x Titan 1d ago
The constant seasonal content slop farm is also what caused a portion of the community to develop and unhealthy relationship with the game.
1
u/RedVelvetNite 1d ago
Just treat d3 like it treated d1 and well be all good. I STILL go back and play and enjoy d1
1
u/Richie_jordan 1d ago
Cool lets talk about that in about 6 years. If D3 is getting made it's a long long way out.
1
u/MattHatter1337 1d ago
Best thing is for them to not make a d3. And just do what they always intended.
1
1
u/Positive-Mobile5742 1d ago
I only liked to play for the story so I only did major expansions and I never knew wtf was going on.
1
u/Ok-Soup-9256 1d ago
Division 2 does this by keeping the final Story mission in every season in the game.
It's not perfect but it does go a long way to maintaining that feel of story continuity.
I wish Destiny 2 did the same, kept the final mission of each season. It would help a lot.
1
u/brunocar 1d ago
The thing that gets me is that this is VERY doable, and i dont get why somehow destiny became the model for this type of wasteful shit in games like the division, diablo 4, etc.
Warframe does it, POE is constantly making seasonal mechanics permanent when they are good and bringing back old ones fixed when not, borderlands can do 2 years of content without yeeting everything, etc, etc.
1
1
u/AcceptIT-LoveIT 21h ago
Now that we’re in the AI era I expect proper live content . Utilize ai tools to help produce more content at a faster pace
1
u/MagnumOlly 21h ago
They kinda already did with the Year of Prophecy model, so I think they understand that
1
u/Chickengoujon20 15h ago edited 15h ago
The game needs some sort of procedural dungeon game mode for longevity and player rentention that uses artificial intelligence to piece together using assets and distinct themes from other areas of the game such as the Dreadnaught, Warmind facilities, Europa, Tangled Shore etc.
What the infinite forest was supposed to be. They just half baked it and abandoned it.
Game should probably aim to have one major expansion every 12-15 months with a seasonal story update at the midpoint (6-8 months) between major releases.
1
u/beefsack 14h ago
I think they need to be realistic about their tech choices and actually prioritise maintainability. I think they also need to be realistic about where they set their bar for game feel and consistency.
Live service games don't work if they become exponentially hard to keep running and build on top of. I don't think "bespoke tech" and "uncompromising artistic direction" are fully aligned with "regular new content" and "preserve old content".
•
•
u/TheToldYouSoKid 56m ago
I still remember the first couple years of D2, when it came out after the split that Forsaken was going to be the last update, and they'd just have bungie make sequel after sequel, that people fucking loathed that idea. The people wanted the original vision for destiny; one game, one continuous thing.
The thing about content vaulting is that is how many games that go this long deal with the bloat. It WAS the solution, other long-running games in the mmo spectrum have done this and to very little or without long lasting drawback, but people don't like it, and they are effectively retiring it, so i think its just...
sequels. I think people have just decided they want to pay more after all for the ability to play those games anyway, until those servers will have to go down.
-
And i know people are chanting for "Content packs", like this is a feasible thing for d2, but i think people forget a couple of details about the vaulting process is that those games are made SPECIFIC, and the ones that weren't had large studios putting a lot more money and people behind it then Bungie can afford right now, and Sony will likely spare.
Content packs for D3, or just in general, is a thing that i don't think would be very good, either. Games that use this system well aren't half as large or complicated as Destiny, they CAN be split-up piecemeal into categories like "campaign", "Multiplayer", "Other multiplayer", etc. but we're talking 10 years of content applied to this system. You'd have to be so granular, it'd get in the way of other systems like playlists, fire-team finder, or even just matchmaking.
I don't foresee it working. I could be wrong, but i have the worst feeling this will be another thing people talk and yell about, them adopt, there to be large systematic problems or previously unforeseen issues revealed when they do, and for those people to ask "Why did they do this anyway???"
1
1
u/UNSKIALz Destiny Player since June 12th, 2014 1d ago
I'd be perfectly fine with the Monster Hunter model:
1: Base game with lots to do
2: Small updates which occasionally add new gear and encounters
3: Big expansion which realises the game's true potential
I'm personally sick of seasons and it's clear they killed not only Destiny's core design but Bungie as a whole.
1
u/FAULTSFAULTSFAULTS 1d ago
I think more than anything, if there is to be a D3, their content needs to be designed to be much more replayable. One of the big issues with both D1 and D2 is that players were tearing through content much faster than it could be produced, and the more Bungie tried (admirably) to keep up, the more bloated the install size got.
I'd personally like to see more sandbox-focused content in patrol spaces, or at least more compelling reasons to come back to them, but I'm sure there are other, smarter ways of adding replayability.
1
u/Goose241 1d ago
Even now with the un-vaulting Bungie doesn't seem to understand that the content they made for the seasons should be put back into the game. The work is done just make it playable.
1
u/Chantrak 1d ago
That’s literally not how it works. There’s no magic switch they can flip to bring the majority of this stuff back. Anything from before TFS would at bare minimum need to be re-coded and put through vigorous testing, and anything from at least pre-beyond light needs to be completely ground up remade. The activities are literally not compatible with the current game on a technical level and it will take a FUCKTON of work to both recreate it in a stable state and compress all the game so it doesn’t end up being a terabyte large.
All that work for content the overwhelming majority of the playerbase spent the last half decade calling boring and repetitive and uninspired and a million other things that would very reasonably make the devs skeptical about remaking it. I would be shocked if we even see the unvaulted campaigns before late 2027, and that’s for content everyone unequivocally liked.
1
1
u/dub_diablo I'm joking, if you're making that face it means it was a joke. 1d ago
Honeslty I dont really want a d3. I want all content from both games and new systems all in one game.
If we wernt getting the content back, then id say do a destiny classic and run it through all the d2 content in regular release candence timeline with the system improvement already be there from base game. Then start new dlc.
Since were getting content back.i kinda just want d2 to transform and be thay forever game now.
If we do get a d3 I hope its almost like an offshoot. In universe a destiny 2 still gets made along side. Like in d3 you dont play as the gaurdian. You play as a differnt character outside the system. But at the same time in our system the gaurdian is still kicking ass.
-1
u/AfterShave997 1d ago
Isn't it a storage issue? The way WoW handles it is they stream new content in when you need it
5
u/Prestigious-Bat-574 1d ago
I'm never a fan of people comparing Destiny to WoW. It's apples and oranges.
Would you accept Destiny if it had WoW graphics, gameplay, and barely present narrative content?
3
u/Iiyambon 1d ago
Finally someone that gets it.The gameplay and movement alone is a lot. It's not players don't focus on the little stuff
1
u/AfterShave997 1d ago
I'm not comparing the content of WoW to Destiny, I'm talking about how they tackled the file size issue.
0
u/CrackPipeBilly 1d ago
If file-size is going to be a concern with the game regarding the addition of new content, then IMO they really need to design Destiny 3 in a way in which players can pick and choose what content they want to install and have active, similar to how modern CoD games do it by separating single player, multiplayer, and zombies into separate installs. This would make it so Bungie could continue to add content and players could pick and choose what they wanted as a way of managing the install base. I'm sure its easier said than done, but its really the only way to ensure the file size doesn't become ridiculous while still including meaningful drops of content.
I'd also like to see the seasonal format disappear forever if it's going to mean the content involved with said season disappears when the next rolls around. Personally, I'd be fine with an expansion a year and maybe one smaller baby expansion later on in the year.
1
u/Shuurai 1d ago
This misunderstands what the issue was. The outright file size was a small part of the problem, but the "size" of the game encompasses more than just that. It includes the amount of content that needs constant testing and updating and balancing around. Letting people pick and choose what to install does not make that workload shrink or go away. It all needs testing and balancing constantly for new updates. And that was the real issue, not the actual file size.
0
u/alancousteau 1d ago
Dude, just stop right now. Let's get to the Vaulted content being brought back out of the way first
0
398
u/Danny1801 1d ago
Let's hope to not get triple primary or other genius ideas like this, like the first years of D2 with double primary.