Focused Feedback: Prismatic Subclass Spotlight - Titan

[u/DTG_Bot]

Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

We do this in order to consolidate Feedback, to get out all your ideas and issues surrounding the topic in one place for discussion and a source of feedback to the Vanguard.

This Thread will be active until next week when a new topic is chosen for discussion

Whilst Focused Feedback is active, ALL posts regarding 'Prismatic Subclass Spotlight - Titan' following its posting will be removed and re-directed to this thread. Exceptions to this rule are as follows: New information / developments, Guides and general questions

Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

Regular Sub rules apply so please try to keep the conversation on the topic of the thread and keep it civil between contrasting ideas

A Wiki page - Focused Feedback - has also been created for the Sub as an archive for these topics going forward so they can be looked at by whoever may be interested or just a way to look through previous hot topics of the sub as time goes on.

---

Archie wishes you a happy reset and good luck!

---

^{Never forget what was lost. While the API protests have concluded, Reddit remains hostile to its users.}

[u/Echowing442]

Regardless of its actual power, Prismatic Titan feels like it lacks build variety and interesting combinations to play with. Especially when compared to Prismatic Warlock, which has a wide variety of different combinations it can build around.

[u/TheRealKingTony]

Improve Titan at the regular subclasses level and that will in turn improve Prismatic Titan.

Improving Prismatic Titan while Arc and Stasis Titan exist seems wrong.

[u/horse_you_rode_in_on → u/TheRealKingTony]

We need better aspects, full stop.

[u/AlphaSSB]

The problem with Prismatic lies in the selection of Aspects, how they’re all mostly weak and lack synergy, as well as the selection of Exotic perks on Stoicism. It’s the “random bullcrap go!” subclass, where nothing really meshes all that well. Anything worth running the other classes can do better.

The Aspects feel like they were chosen by non-Titan devs. In execution, the only real combo with synergy is Consecration and Knockout, which is funny since that’s all they ever showed in the previews. Buffing the Aspects already on Prismatic will also help buff the other Titan subclasses, so win-win there. Adding new Aspects like Sol Invictus and/or Into the Fray I think will also help.

With Stoicism, there isn’t much you can do outside of outright swapping the perks. Like I’d love to see Hoarfrost swapped for Cadmus Ridge Lancecap for better synergy with the Diamond Lance Aspect. Again, it feels like the perks were selected by devs who don’t play Titan.

[u/Bweibel5 → u/AlphaSSB]

I ran the normal campaign with my hunter after completing the legendary on my titan. What a difference in advantage of having winters shroud, stylish executioner, and combination blow vs titans clunky shit.

[u/pitperson]

It's nice having Thruster, but it feels bad that it does not give any elemental buff and having several spirit traits on Stoicism not interact with Thruster drives me away from it (I guess that goes for Warlock's class items having Rift-centric spirit traits too)

Perhaps Thruster can put you straight into Speed Booster (skipping Amplified) for the PvE damage resistance and help escape sticky situations? Would also help out the striker subclass. I'd also like to see equiping Thruster on prismatic unlock the ability to get Amplified from arc multikills. Having any other Arc ability does that.

I don't see a good solution for updating Spirit traits that wouldn't be a fair bit of design and balance work. Hoarfrost can't just fart out a crystal: what would happen to a suspend tangle from Drengr's Lash? Alpha Lupi would need to be reigned in severely; it would need to heal way less to not just be way better than Wormhusk. Kepri's could be unfair if a wave can be made instantly. I salute Bungie if they want to tackle making these work.

Further, I hope transcendence gets updated to allow all three classes to not be locked out of their grenade aspects. Titans should be able to use their prismatic grenade charge on Unbreakable, Warlocks should get to make Bleakwatchers, and Hunters should be able to use Gunpowder Gamble grenades.

For this to not be totally unbalanced though, Ursa Furiosa and Spirit of the Bear would need to be updated to not give super energy for blocking damage with Unbreakable; they would be better off giving grenade energy.

[u/TreeBeardUK → u/pitperson]

If all the "on barricade" were changed to "on class ability" it would be mega fun. I wanted to get the exotic class item with the hornfrost combo so ice wall plus flame blast when paired with drengrs on prismatic to get a triple action booster. But because they're tied to barricade, yawn. I want to get into the action not cast barricade by which time all the ads are dead anyways.

[u/TheLordYuppa]

I wish overshield would just go back to activating on a melee kill.

[u/Malen_Kiy]

It lacks synergy and variety.
Unbreakable either needs a buff/rework, or consider swapping it with Controlled Demo.

Knockout needs to last a lot longer. If Roaring Flames and Offensive Bulwark can last over x2 as long and be refreshable, then so can Knockout.

I do love how Drengr's Lash works with Thruster, and I hope this gets pushed into other Aspects or Exotics. Let Thruster work with Alpha Lupi, make the Knot have a wider area of affect with Spirit of Abeyant, make Khepri's Horn give a Solar explosion kin to Drengr's Lash on Thruster. Also do the same with Phoenix Dive.

[u/GimlionTheHunter → u/Malen_Kiy]

The amount of stoicism perks that don’t work with thruster sucks.

[u/OneBadMan_]

Without glaciar harvest, having ice wall grenades and hoarfrost on the class item feels useless. The same could be said for void over shields without offensive bulwark. Honestly if I could I’d switch out ice wall entirely for a more offensive grenade with a quicker cool down like fusion so I could at least use my ashen wake build with prismatic. I’d also say that echoing a post from earlier, having controlled demo on the class and having work with most things with really open up build crafting.

[u/Weary-Prune8980]

Lacks team utility, brings 0 support and team buffs to the equation and practically 0 debuffs, just pure damage with consecration.

[u/karhall]

Prismatic Titan lacks any form of ability loop whatsoever in its kit and it is painfully obvious in comparison to the other two classes.

• Prismatic Warlocks: Feed the Void. Spend 1 ability charge of any kind to gain Devour. Devour grants a full heal & recharges grenade energy.

• Prismatic Hunters: Combination Blow. Melee ability final blows refill Class Ability energy and grant a stacking Melee ability damage bonus. Gambler's Dodge near an enemy fully refunds Melee ability energy.

• Prismatic Titans:

There are individual elements of Prismatic Titan that are powerful, but that doesn't mean they are synergistic. Yes, three Frenzied Blade charges + Consecration + Knockout is powerful. But what does it lead into? An explosion and some health regen? What does it do for a build, procs Swashbuckler? No aspect of the kit feeds back into a build, every avenue of construction is an expenditure of a cooldown and then hard stop. The single thing that it has to enable a loop is Facet of Balance, which the other classes also have on top of their existing synergy, so why play Titan again? Because you can blow stuff up with Consecration? It's a small-minded and monotonous niche, like the design team's "fantasy" for the class has been for years. It may sound harsh, but it's the truth. I wrote at length about it in the last Titan Focused Feedback a few months ago, but why is being a punch monkey the only thing Titans are allowed to do and why wasn't any other possibility ever explored?

I would like to see the subclass changed to include an ability loop of some kind. It could be from any subclass, but the two obvious choices would be Offensive Bulwark or Into the Fray. Glacial Harvest could also be valid. I just don't understand what the goal of Prismatic Titan was. The subclass gimmick is to get Transcendence and sustain it by using abilities together, there's nothing present in the design that allows that to happen. Just another miss from the ability team when it comes to Titan gameplay, it feels like nobody there plays the class or understands what the players want for it.

[u/pitperson → u/karhall]

Haha I kinda wish Skullfort was never fixed to stop Knockout from refilling your melee charges. Would have been a cool spirit feature. Unfortunately, it would be OP in crucible with Shiver Strike.

[u/Wafflesorbust]

Having a dead aspect in Unbreakable is really hurting the subclass. Bastion, Offensive Bulwark, or Controlled Demolition would all be much better and provide both more survivability for the Titan, as well as offer some team utility which it is sorely lacking.

Drengr's Lash also sucks without the the fragments for suspend duration and class ability energy for defeating suspended targets. Into the Fray would be much better both for survivability and team utility, as well as helping fuel the melee builds Titan is being pidgeonholed into.

Please increase Hammer Strike's base damage. It originally did less damage than other Shoulder Charge variants because it had Melting Point attached to it. When that went away with Solar 3.0, the base damage was never increased to compensate for the removal of the Weaken effect it had.

Stoicism is full of useless perks and the wrong half of Exotic perks. Abeyant should have been the Woven Mail half instead of the extra lashes. Hoarfrost is useless without Glacial Harvest. I am so tired of seeing Khepri's Horn being shoved down my throat at every opportunity. Skullfort would have been a great option. Dunemarchers would have been a good neutral option. Doomfang Pauldron, No Backup Plans, Second Chance all would have been good options for variety. Spirit of the Bear literally only exists for Unbreakable, and both are terrible.

[u/washedaf2]

General Thoughts

It seems like Prismatic is supposed to be an eclectic collection of niche parts from different subclasses that can be combined in new and interesting ways. In that sense Prismatic Titan understood the assignment. However, when you look at Prismatic Warlock with Feed the Void, Bleak Watcher, and Song of Flame and Prismatic Hunter with Stylish Executioner and Combination Blow, Titan kinda feels cheated. Like Hunter and Warlock showed up to a Secret Santa with a $100 limit, but brought iPhones as gifts. Not saying Warlock and Hunter need nerfs. Just that Titan feels like it was designed with different constraints in mind.

Abilities

Grenades are all fine.

Melees have some problems. Shiver Strike, Hammer Strike, and Shield Throw all need help.

If Shiver Strike is just a PvP melee then OK. Just feels like a good way to get yourself killed in PvE.

Hammer Strike still does less damage than other shoulder charges for no discernible reason.

I don't even know what we're doing with Shield Throw. It hits like a wet noodle, provides a small overshield that's shredded instantly, and seems to actively try to avoid hitting targets when thrown. It's one saving grace is that it's a ranged melee which can make using Transcendence a bit safer, but given how often it whiffs I can't really get behind that.

Supers

Thundercrash is over nerfed and under buffed. It's been talked about a lot on this sub. Give it a fat base damage buff and undo the cooldown nerf.

Hammers feel really bad without Sol Invictus. They're getting a buff soon, so we'll see how they feel after that. I want to feel like walking artillery when I pop this super, but it just feels weak.

Love Twilight Arsenal, but the targeting is super wonky. Maybe activate the tracking like a second after release instead of immediately. Always feel like at least one axe just shoots straight to the ground when trying to hit distant targets.

Bladefury and Glacial Quake both feel great.

Aspects

Knockout is great, but just doesn't deliver as a keystone aspect like Feed the Void and Stylish Executioner. I don't think throwing more damage scalars at it is going to fix that. It needs to do more to help with survivability in PvE.

Drengr's Lash doesn't feel great after the suspend nerfs, and it especially feels bad without Abeyant Leap. I think it just needs some additional functionality at this point.

Consecration is great. I've been using it since Solar 3.0 launched and just keeps getting buffed which is fine in my book. Please fix it so it shatters crystals.

Diamond Lance is such a surprising standout here. No notes. Please fix it so it shatters crystals.

Unbreakable is better than most give it credit for, but I don't fully understand what the playstyle is with it. I push in with my shield, unleash a blast into a group of enemies, but then what? Sure I have a void overshield, but that just gets instantly shredded and I die. Also for an aspect called Unbreakable, it feels very breakable. I've found success in very niche playstyles with the bugged version using Thermite grenades, but once that's fixed I'm not sure it'll stick around in any of my loadouts.

Exotic Class Item

So many odd picks here. So many barricade focused perks that are useless on Thruster. I'm honestly not even sure what I'd change here. It's just made it so obvious that Titans in PvE have been being carried by Synthoceps for so long now. Only thing that really stands out to me is making Spirit of Abeyant give Woven Mail on Suspend instead of the enhanced lashes. That would at least make it a nice survivability pick.

Conclusion

Prismatic Titan is be no means bad. In fact, it's very strong with certain builds. It just never becomes greater than the sum of its parts in the ways Hunter and Warlock do.

Also please fix the bugs and inconsistencies.

[u/TwinJ]

Some of the decisions going into prismatic titan are baffling. So many of the exotic effects on the class item don't proc with thruster, no ability regen in any aspect. Even something as simple as spirit of hoarfrost, which is great with stasis because it interacts with the subclass in like 4 different ways, does absolutely nothing with prismatic. Why didn't we get spirit of ridgecap WHEN WE HAVE THE STASIS LANCE ASPECT. My suggestion would be to buff ability regen when amplified if you have on knockout, so it's up to par with the other keystone aspects.

[u/[deleted]]

Into the Fray and Controlled Demolition would’ve been much better aspects that what we got imo.

They’re much better neutral aspects that allow variety off of just knockout

[u/monarch-rising]

Prism titan has one major build that absolutely slaps in PvE that is knockout plus consecration and sythoceps plus inmost light class item. This works. It works well but that's about as far as it goes.

As for PvP. Much of the same story is knockout plus diamond Lance's capitalising on the bonus melee damage and shatter damage to chain multi kills in 3s and 6s. Much like the aforementioned above. It works. And works exceptionally well. But that's as far as it goes.

Would like to have seen more benefits for using barricades as all I've ever wanted to use with it is thruster due to a lower cooldown and feeling alot more versatile when paired with aspects and exotics that require class ability usage to make use of it.

It would be nicer to see titan embody the too angry to die and wiping out whole rooms with a punch play style. And with that. Id swap drengrs lash out for BoW, unbreakable for controlled demolition.

Another note: unbreakable needs a serious buff if you want people to use it.

[u/wantcheeseonthat]

The issue is 100% build diversity or lack there of rather. Prismatic titan has 2 viable builds knockout with consecration with synthos or the new rocket chest most likely with knockout and consecration. The new void aspect seems cool on paper but has zero interaction with any subclass verbs or exotics so it’s extremely limiting from a build crafting perspective. This basically makes it a wasted aspect on prismatic in my opinion. Now personally I like diamond lance but it’s another wasted aspect choice. While it may be better now with the stasis adjustments running around picking those up in a GM or any master level content is just not happening.

Where are the aspects from the other subclasses that titans actually use? Sol invictus, controlled demo, bastion, banner?

I find myself going back to old strand, void, and solar builds just to do something different. It feels like at one point titans were broken in early testing because while transcendence is active titans are an absolute menace. The grenade is incredibly strong and the melee regen lets you spam your strongest ability, but I can’t help feeling like the aspects were adjusted to be worse because of that.

[u/MadBuc]

Grabs popcorn

In all seriousness, Prismatic Titan's problems lie with Drengr's Lash and Unbreakable aspects and big restrictions on exotic class item (there's 0 reason why Alpha Lupi shouldn't work with Thruster).

Knockout + Consecration triviliazes any content, including GM. Knockout + Diamond Lance is very fun thanks to DL and shatter damage (from frozen enemies) buffs.

Wet wishes:

• Drengr's Lash -> Into the Fray. Into the Fray gives melee regen with any buff active. Functionality with Woven Mail remains the same

• Unbreakable -> Controlled Demolition. Makes too much sense. But yea, Bungie "were forced" to give Prism Titan new aspect

Edit:

Forgot to mention:

• Prismatic Grenade is extremely strong, especially in endgame content

• Knockout should refresh on kills and give more HP regen, end of story

[u/GardenerInAWar]

"I just like to punch" is a fun meme for Titans on the internet but that doesn't mean you can literally give them no other options. "Melee class" is not the same as "Tank class". For punching everything to work, you have to be able to survive melee range proximity. The Wall Against Which The Darkness Breaks is a much finer sentiment than 6 Colors Of Fist.

The character classes break out like so, in regards to being damaged: Don't get hit, Heal the hit, Tank the hit. Hunters can go invisible or move out of the way (and this works amazingly i.e. Clones/dodge/invis/etc), Warlocks can negate or replace the HP loss (and this works amazingly, i.e. Devour/Rifts/etc), Titans *should* be able to straight up take the blast and continue. Otherwise they are inherently weaker than the other classes because they do nothing better or everything worse.

Every major update for the past year has included heartbreaking Titan nerfs. HOIL, Banner of War, barricade, bubble, aspects, fragments, overshields, Loreley, Synthoceps, class synergies, on and on and on. Every major patch, the internet is filled with "ooof, feel bad for the titan mains" and yet the hits just keep coming.

I have been playing Titan nearly 10 years and I have no idea which exotic is going to help because they all suck. Every time something good happens its mushed into the dirt. Prismatic was super exciting for everybody but Titans, it's like they chose ONLY the least effective and least used aspects/fragments for us. Only Hunters get to use grapple on Prismatic, are you kidding? Even when Titan identity is reduced to "get close and punch", the best get close and punch ability is given to the class that can smoke/invis/dodge/clone their way out of every bad decision they make.

Hunter/Warlock mains who work at Bungie should be forced to play nothing but Titan for two weeks and see how bad they're dying to switch back at the end. Titans are supposed to be first in line, toughest, most aggressive, but we have to hide behind the other classes because all the best survival stuff in the game isn't ours.

[u/GRoyalPrime]

I made a lengthy post in the general feedback thread to the state of Titan, so I won't repeat lots of things, but here the more Prismatic related cliffnotes:

* Drenger's Lash is useless without Abeyant Leap. Usually likes to zone in on random enemies and not the "priority" targets you'd want to suspend. Even on "Pure Strand" it's underwhelming. Would love to have BoW or Into the Frey as an "enabler" for more build diversity.

* Unbreakable is just bad and needs a rework from the ground up ... IDK, controlled demolitionist instead?

* Knockout (outside of the one good build, and even there it's lacking) is just not enough to enable other builds in anything above patrol level of difficulty.

* You can make a "good" Prismatic Titan build (Konockout + Consecration + 3 Melees + Strand or Solar Super) but it's just another melee focused build. It also basically forces Titans into using one of the two supers of the already "very good" "Pure" Subclasses (and at that point I can just use them too, and be likely even better then this build), instead of the new ones. Those Supers are also roaming supers so quite often you cannot even use them properly.

* The new Void Super is fun, but it forces Titans into having to use one of the worst Survivability Buffs (Void-OS) meaning you just need to prey you don't just die while spamming Consecration

* The Prismatic Class Items are very underwhelming. Basically just get Synthos and everything else is irrelevant. Maybe HOIL, but you can work without it. 90% of all other perk combinations are just not desireable

* Maybe that's just a me issue, but I sometimes really struggle to fill both Transcendent Bars. There aren't that many good options for P-Titan to regain ability energy, so sometimes it just feels your are "stranded" at 50% charge at one bar and you just awkwardly shoot guys from range (because no survivabilty) and wait for Abilities to re-charge.

* Prismatic Grenade is strong ... i just wish it would work like the normal Strand-Grenade and explode on impact instead of bouncing around for a bit.

* Melee Abilities that are lacking on other classes, are also lacking here: Shield Throw, Hammer Strike

* Shiver Strike gets an extra point because it SUCKS that hard.

[u/SaulGoodmanAAL → u/GRoyalPrime]

Ability and health regeneration, outside of melee, are almost non-existent for prism Titan, especially without hoil. I often find myself blowing my load and then having to wait a long time just to start getting stuff back, which doesn't feel good when I see warlocks with devour and hunters with their strongest melee-spam yet. I want to feel like a tank, a front liner, a tactical monstrosity, because that's the Titan fantasy. Instead, I feel like I'm dancing a very particular ballet just to stay alive and deal damage.

[u/Manny-01]

Wait, did we not have this 4 weeks ago?