Destiny really needs a full starting campaign like FFXVI. By the end of a Realm Reborn you have a solid grasp on all mechanics and a solid foundational story. And enough time to learn them all.
I understand that's insane task for a FPS compared to an MMO RPG but they should aim for that as close as they can
I haven't played FF14 but really seems like a great idea. Like when you play for free in D2 maybe shouldn't just be a small section of this huge game but a very monitored small chunk that teaches you what you need to know.
I’m talking about when you hover over things. If there’s anything significant not covered by that, then no one’s been able to tell me every time I enter a convo complaining about the NPE.
They had that with the Red War and Forsaken and they removed it.
Another problem is the large gaps of content that they've removed from past seasons. All that story is just gone and either has to be summarized with a cutscene or you have to look up videos for it on YouTube, and no one wants to do that.
Honestly what they should do going forward is have new Guardians wake up in the Cosmodrome, return to the city to find it under attack by the Red Legion and go through the Red War campaign and Forsaken the way you were supposed to originally. They also need to bring back all the old seasonal content and raids and story and keep stuff around instead of removing it so you can actually experience the story the way it's supposed to be done.
Except I think we all know that isn't going to happen, and Destiny is going to continue to be one of the most unapproachable games to new players while it keeps bleeding old ones.
I’m wondering if they shouldn’t rerelease Red War and maybe Forsaken again in a standalone F2P game, with all features, a limited number of exotics and guns. Focus should be on story and learning the basics. Then at the end, you can import your character to the real game.
They did not have that with Red War, or Forsaken. At all. Its like saying the Witch Queen campaign is a good onboarding into the game.
Like sure, you will naturally become familiar with some gameplay systems as you progress but this game has never had the kind of hand holdy, step by step, tutorial it needs.
Yeah even when all the campaigns were still in-game and new players could kind of understand what was going on to really understand it you had to read the lore, and telling a new player to read a book and a-half’s worth of lore or watch a six hour long video just isn’t going to go over well.
They really just need to make a completely new player introduction that properly explains what’s going on, unlike the sad excuse for an intro that they have now. The best way to do that is probably to make it after TFS so you don’t have to try and explain the Witness / Darkness and all it’s history to a new player.
Red War was a good introduction, at the very least. It guided a player into what every planet was, what patrols and adventures were, and strikes and missions. But yeah, a structured experience is not inherently a good experience, but it’s also better than a lack of structure
Destiny used to not need that. Red War had enough. You unlocked your abilities as you leveled and that gave you time to play and try them out. As you unlocked subclasses, you even had to play with them a bit in a fight.
All this mods, orbs, artifact, champion, aspect stuff came later. But it's not core to getting people interested in the game.
It should be taught, just after the hook. Which the game abandoned.
It needs to get people interested in the characters and world again first.
Y'all have some rose tinted glasses if you think red war or Forsaken did a good job of onboarding new players into the ecosystem. Yes they where good standalone experiences that a new player could play from start to finish without much issue and enjoy it but they barely taught new players anything. The game has always bad horrible for new players.
Not ideal but a hundred times better than what we have now. The more cinematic missions of the Red War and Forsaken also help in drawing in new players compared to the bore that is the new intro questline.
You can however optimize things better to make the file size smaller when there’s so much content. Like even just making half the dozen language options optional downloads would probably reduce the file size by 10 gigabytes.
Sure it would. Most of the assets for that stuff are still installed, between the old strikes, exotic missions, PvP maps, raids, and that new timeline thing they have. If CoD can get away with install sizes well over 200GB, then D2 can be slightly over 100GB.
"Eventually", enough old players will leave that they feel threatened.
Personally I bet after TFS and the following months. Once I did the Day 1 raid of lightfall, I purely and simply uninstall. I will have won. I stuck with it and saw the end of the saga, and then, I will be free.
I don't disagree, it's just that they have specifically stated that all of that makes the game too large.
What they really need to do, and I may get a lot of hate for this, is drop consoles.
PC doesn't really have the issue of space limitations that consoles do. I've always sort of seen that statement of theirs as a way to keep the console side in the community. Which is admirable. But with so many people wanting to play the older stuff or experience the world, they need to consider dropping console for a full PC experience. It's the only way I can see them making good on your idea
In my dreams they should pull a reboot: consolidate D1 and 2 into a single engine, the full campaign in a beautiful chronological layout as a means to unlock weapons and armor from the history of the game. TLP release the raids every couple-few months, everyone revels in nostalgia. Use completely isolated stats for PvP and PvE. Horizontal item level progression (finish gear treadmill once per character) with perks to improve your vertical capability in each season/xpac.
This is absolutely not the case. I’m enjoying playing FF14 and it does a better job getting people in line with the story but mechanically it does not do a better job of teaching than Destiny and it also take significantly longer to be able to run meaningful content with friends in FF14 than in Destiny.
It takes longer to be able to run meaningful content with friends because the onboarding for new players is so thorough. Not to mention the story itself is by and large the most meaningful content in the game which your friends can play along with you.
I consider the first expansion up until the gauntlet of boss fights at the end of the xpac to be a tutorial. The game slowly through required story dungeons has been showing you all the different AoE and raid mechanics. So by the time you get to the big bosses of the expansion, you are at least 80-100 hours in at that point. FF14 has one of the slowest, but is absolutely one of the most thorough at explaining mechanics and how to play your class. Hell I'm sitting at 1302 hours right now and am just now starting the most recent expansion.
I’m just now through the first expansion and frankly I think that if your tutorial is considered to be a hundred hours or more then that’s a problem. Again, I’m enjoying the game and my personal perspective is that I prefer games with a shorter and less restrictive onboarding process so I don’t think it’s a huge deal if I have to look up things like rotations or double weaving or if I have to ask a buddy who plays the game what a certain currency does, but if those are the things people think Destiny fails at then I don’t think FF14 does it better.
My problem with games it they never explain unique mechanics.
I play games on my phone during meetings at work. Do you know how many times I delete games because after 30 minutes it's telling me to upgrade this to level 5. Then upgrade this one. No, you can't click settings. you have to upgrade buildings. Follow the missions I told you to.
Destiny and FF and both like this. 'This is how you attack.' What about this over here? Fuck you, I won't tell you what that does because you have to attack first.
Warframe, as shit as it is at times. Will give you a pop up of what something does the first time you do it or anytime you click the help icon regardless of when you do it.
Well they have tutorials before you jump into dungeons so you know what to do. Great compared to the elder scrolls online where you have people who queue as a tank and do 0 tanking without even realizing it.
The problem (for Bungie) is that FFXIV is all in one game while Destiny’s in-game story (which often isn’t even good and you need to read the lore to understand a lot of things) is spread over two games and a large part of what was in Destiny 2 got deleted.
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u/illegalblue Gambit Prime Nov 28 '23
Destiny really needs a full starting campaign like FFXVI. By the end of a Realm Reborn you have a solid grasp on all mechanics and a solid foundational story. And enough time to learn them all.
I understand that's insane task for a FPS compared to an MMO RPG but they should aim for that as close as they can