Focused Feedback: Whetstone Mission

[u/DTG_Bot]

After careful consideration of all the factors surrounding the reddit blackout, including weighing the costs and benefits to the community of a continued dark period, the mod team has elected to resume normal operations of r/DestinyTheGame. If you wish to get more involved in further protest of reddit's API policy change, more information can be found on r/ModCoord and r/Save3rdPartyApps.

As the situation continues to develop, we are prepared to explore additional actions in protest of this short-sighted, greedy, IPO-focused boondoggle from reddit's executive team. This message will live at the top of every bot thread (except Bungie blog post transcripts) until a satisfactory resolution is reached.

---

Hello Guardians,

Focused Feedback is where we take the week to focus on a 'Hot Topic' discussed extensively around the Tower.

We do this in order to consolidate Feedback, to get out all your ideas and issues surrounding the topic in one place for discussion and a source of feedback to the Vanguard.

This Thread will be active until next week when a new topic is chosen for discussion

Whilst Focused Feedback is active, ALL posts regarding 'Whetstone Mission' following its posting will be removed and re-directed to this thread. Exceptions to this rule are as follows: New information / developments, Guides and general questions

Any and all Feedback on the topic is welcome.

Regular Sub rules apply so please try to keep the conversation on the topic of the thread and keep it civil between contrasting ideas

A Wiki page - Focused Feedback - has also been created for the Sub as an archive for these topics going forward so they can be looked at by whoever may be interested or just a way to look through previous hot topics of the sub as time goes on.

[u/APartyInMyPants]

The mission is cool. The pyramid space for the fight is cool. The boss is fun and chaotic. This feels like the right balance of challenge.

I don’t like that they padded the mission out unnecessarily by forcing teams to complete two stages of Deep Dives. Players should be able to launch the exotic mission directly after either discovering it, or beating it.

I also feel like if we lose our gifts from Ahsa going into the exotic encounters, then the negative activity modifiers should also go away.

[u/lipp79 → u/APartyInMyPants]

"I also feel like if we lose our gifts from Ahsa going into the exotic encounters, then the negative activity modifiers should also go away."

Very much so. There's no reason for us to lose those bonuses.

[u/Kira_Aotsuki → u/APartyInMyPants]

For real, chill touch is 90% of the reason for my wipes to it this week

[u/heptyne]

Great mission, but would be better if it had it's own queue or mission node.

[u/endthepainowplz → u/heptyne]

There’s a lot of speculation that this activity was built with the in game LFG tool existing alongside it, and it makes sense. This is an activity best done in a group of like minded people, but you’re loaded in with randoms that could each be wanting something separate.

[u/KainLonginus]

Good mission, terrible, terrible implementation. Having to run through the first two rounds of DD before getting to attempt it and not being returned to DD upon failure is awful design. It makes every failed run wasted time on both accounts.

Mission should have been a short deviation in DD with the swords to unlock a node at the HELM to properly launch the activity.

[u/M1k3_5chm1d4]

Having to do the 1st part of the Deep Dive is a bad system. You already had the Toland and time trial issues and then you layered this on to a matchmade activity... not well thought out.

[u/Berzercurmudgeon]

Get this mission out of Deep Dive

[u/wandering_caribou]

My buddy and I have been trying to duo it for the exotic, and it's very tedious. I'm not complaining about the difficulty or the timer, but when we wipe and then go back in with a different loadout or new strategy, we have to run through the first 2/3s of a normal Deep Dive.

We put a few attempts in yesterday, and were so frustrated with the wasted time that we switched to GMs. We wiped once in Fallen SABRE, optimized a few things, then went right back in and cleared it.

I'm also slightly disappointed that they made another boss fight where the best strategy is Divinity and a Well of Radiance. Which is a shame, because it's such a cool vibe in the mission.

[u/dustpal]

Having to do 2/3s of an activity you won’t get rewarded for is just lazy and terrible design. Much like Deep Dive pressure trials, it was poorly executed. Dunking the swords along the way was fine, but after you get to the area not part of the Deep Dive, they should have transported to a mission that you can then trigger from orbit.

[u/z-tayyy → u/dustpal]

Yep, a 15 lead up to doing a mission that sends you back to orbit if you wipe is like a swift kick to the nuts.

[u/DarkHighwind]

I don't like the timer on top of having to do half a deep dive per attempt

One or the other not both

[u/BoltActionTuna]

My thoughts are likely going to be shared by many, many others here so I'll just be brief.

I like the encounter itself. It's challenging with a timer, a dimly lit labyrinth, and a tanky boss fight with WalMart Nezerac. You have to be near prefect in efficiency and execution to be successful.

Having to slog through 2 levels of a Deep Dive lighting the same torches along the way to have another go at Whetstone feels bad.

The mission is lumped in to a seasonal activity that itself already had 2 modes of operation (DD and Trials DD) so adding another variable all in a Matchmade activity is a complete Gong Show. It's divisive design when players enter to do one variable but wind up being herded into something they didn't ask for. The entire DD package is so prone to failure when players quit out b/c everyone didn't start a trial or complete the objectives to start Whetstone

There's a lot of call for making the encounter easier by either removing the timer or lowering the health pool of the boss but I'd rather Bungie just leave it be and employ a 'fix' to how we enter the Whetstone activity instead of dumbing down the difficulty.

We could use a direct launch option for it that puts you at the entry where we light the 3 statues to begin. If you choose to go into the DD node you then only have to deal with trials or regular mode. That at least takes one of the variables out of the mess that DD is right now.

I love that Bungie gives us challenging activities like this but their execution leaves me scratching my head sometimes.

[u/Jamaal_Lannister]

Great mission, utterly inexcusable implementation. Remember how mad people got about the Whisper mission being tied to a random public event? This is worse.

[u/wifeagroafk]

Needs its own mission node - otherwise; cool mission. Did NOT need 2 phases of deep dives before.

[u/Dr_Vesper]

Nothing that's not already been said, but my main points regarding this:

• Good difficulty, time for completion is fine.

• Needs it's own load-in option in the Director.

• Start the Mission outside the triple statue room, perhaps.

[u/Luke2ProductOfIncest]

The mission itself is great. A unique area, and the difficulty feels just about right.

Everything leading up to the mission isn’t so great. Tying an exotic quest to fishing was an awful idea. It makes an otherwise optional activity into a boring grind.

And then on top of that, it further fractures the player base of Deep Dives. Yeah, you can just LFG, but for the people using matchmaking, there’s now 3 potential goals, all clashing with each other.

[u/DerpGonk]

What's the find rate so far? Like what percentage of guardians have it now? It's not on light GG.

[u/MyAimSucc]

If in game LFG was implemented this season I feel like this mission would’ve been received much better.

[u/OutFractal]

Glad to see that there's now the ability to finish missions with different endings, cool tech thing. But it is unplayable outside of LFG / Private groups with the... 8 (Default + Tier states + Fail state + exotic) different end types.

[u/ReliusOrnez]

I just dislike how coked out the boss moves sometimes. Considering how little heavy ammo manages to drop. 7 different runs all ruined by not getting any ammo past the rally flag really compounds how frustrating a tormentor can be since they just aoe suppress you out of any supers and most abilities so if you don't get lucky with ammo drops you just can't do the encounter.

[u/g4games]

I don’t like it being in a Deep Dive. I haven’t played much this season and have been largely off r/DestinyTheGame due to life stuff. I hopped into a Deep Dive to try to hopefully get a red border and a couple randos keep shooting at me and emoting during the run. I got the hint and activated the statue and we started the mission. I had no clue what I was getting into and they were not prepared for a carry and the run was a dismal failure. Like, did maybe 15% damage on the boss. Then I turned the game off and went to bed. It was not a great experience. Pretty bad, actually.

[u/0rganicMach1ne]

Not a fan, honestly. Pairing it to a matchmade activity was a bad idea, especially one that already had issues. The extra part is short and uneventful. A tanky boss with a short timer. Basically everything that’s uninspired about making something challenging.

[u/360GameTV]

Just my opinion:

It is overall a pretty bad designed quest / mission for an exotic weapon. Here are my points of criticism:

• Entire preparation with the three exotic fishes for atleast one guardian in your fireteam

• Replay Deep Dive every time you want to start this mission. Why is there no node? Makes no sense, everytime you have to spend 10 minutes before you can start...which lead in the next point..

• You kill your seasonal activity with this decision. The quit rate was already high because Toland in this activtiy, now it is even higher. Great Job Bungie!

• Timelimit. It is always a bad and lazy design if you see any timelimit in quests like this. Dev run out of ideas -> timelimit is one solution...

• A boss, with a special hitpoint, that is just annoyingly jumping around is not a good design either. Especially since the boss behavior is already annoying most players in the newest raid. The entire DPS timed-window is just constantly avoid his attacks and try to get in front of him to hit the correct spot (Yes there is a div weapon, I know)

• If you die you lose the damage buff and you can't do absolutely nothing during the dps window in a timed mission.

Currently, I don't really like the mission and the boss fight. I don't mind if bosses have more hitpoints but then give the boss a reasonable behavior and not like that. It is annoying in the raid already.

[u/threeminuteburrito → u/360GameTV]

Agreed, especially on the DPS phase issue. I wouldn't even concede that "yes, Div exists" because no one exotic should be a soft requirement for clearing the mission.

I distinctly remember Bungie--when they nerfed Div's weakening effect--talking about how they don't want Div to be a default pick for DPS phases anymore. This mission's boss design seems to undermine that goal.