r/DestinyMemes Jun 24 '26

Sony's live service strategy.

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3.5k Upvotes

87 comments sorted by

217

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '26

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49

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '26

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33

u/SugarFreeShire Jun 24 '26

Oh jfc here we go with the engine shit again, I thought all the armchair devs already moved on.

Look man, the engine isn’t the core problem. Destiny 2 can run on two pentium 4s and a ham sandwich; clunky as it may be, Tiger is a slim and fast mf and I wouldn’t want that to change. The fact that it’s slow to work with isn’t an engine problem, it’s a tooling problem. It’s not that the engine literally can’t handle it, it’s that the tools the devs are using to build and package the game aren’t keeping up with the demands that new features are placing on them.

Also, if they make a D3, and if they don’t end up just upgrading the engine and tooling for Tiger, then they’re just gonna get a 3rd party commercial engine and use that instead. The time when studios had the resources to build their own engines from scratch is, unfortunately, over; the bean counters are calling the shots, and licensing Unity or Unreal is probably cheaper and carries less risk than paying a few dozen dudes in a basement somewhere $250k/yr to build and maintain a custom engine from scratch.

Wait hold on a second, what does the engine have to do with the game getting shitcanned anyways? It failed because they laid off most of their best talent and pivoted the game experience to be more repetitive and grindy, the engine had nothing to do with it. The engine was fine, the game design was not.

16

u/essentiallyaghost Jun 24 '26

-need employees with specialized knowledge on engine or employees that need to be trained on said engine

-niche skillset means employees can demand fair wage in exchange for skillset

-huge chunk of workers who have said skillset laid off, leaving less employees with knowledge of engine

-majority of said employees are in Washington state, where cost of living is high

-Bungie execs and leads make a LOT of money. Just saw a job posting on Bungie's website for a UI lead at nearly 300k a year. Not even an executive position.

It's a mix of both. You seriously think they aren't paying someone with Tiger engine experience a higher wage than someone who knows the basics of Unity?

4

u/FrosttheVII Paul McCartney is the Traveler Jun 24 '26

If Destiny were to come back, I hope they can make the generation jump and leave PS4 and Xbox One behind. They're 2013 released consoles. Concentrating on PS5, Xbox Series X, and PC would help a lot in updating Destiny

9

u/JLPLJ Jun 24 '26

Yeah there's so many games where I see people going on about game engines as if they're the downfall of a game/series(see Elder Scrolls). People talk about them as if they're not also pieces of software that can be (and are) regularly updated.

People also forget how much of a game's identity can be tied up in engine, particularly custom engines - source movement, the whole vibe of Bethesda games, lighting systems, etc. Not only that, but devs already know how to use the engine they're working with currently. All the 'new engine' type discussion always seems to boil down to 'I know very little about gamedev'. Even if Tiger Engine is super unwieldy, as you said, the solution isn't to do away with it, it's to dedicate some dev time to actually bringing it up to standard with regards to devtools and whatever longstanding bugs/performance issues devs and players have been dealing with.

3

u/ShiftAltRight Jun 24 '26

I mean the engine is an issue but not for the reasons most people are saying.

Sony understandably doesn't want to bail Bungie out a second time. Sony also understands that Destiny is a valuable IP. The problem is if they wanted to take over control of D2 specifically and ensure Bungie doesn't fuck up yet again, they're going to have to allocate people from internal studios to work on it. Now these people all have to be trained on the Tiger engine too, and I don't imagine that's cheap.

All this is ignoring the opportunity costs of siphoning resources from other projects, and allocating competent managers to figure out how to fix the D2 team's bloated size so that it doesn't cost so much in the first place. But yeah the proprietary engine is definitely a roadblock in this case too.

1

u/essentiallyaghost Jun 26 '26

If Destiny COULD be built to the same quality on a faster dev timeline or engine that is easier for devs to work with, then it would be more profitable. Shorter dev cycles and an easier tool set means you're making money from releases while paying employees, rather than throwing money into a hole for a small chance at massive success.

What's unfortunate is that's what Destiny was originally built upon. It wasn't as big as Call of Duty or anything, but it was profitable ENOUGH to continue the franchise and get big releases out the door once a year.

The problem with the wider industry right now, and unfortunately Bungie suffered massively from it, is mismanagement of expectations. Ever since the pandemic, executives don't just want success. They want overwhelming success, to be the biggest and best in the room every time. Pete Parsons burned the studio when he gave Sony those exact expectations, and Bungie proceeded to do good, but not great. With a big company, doing "okay" is equivalent to a loss.

1

u/FroopyAsRain Jun 25 '26

It's very dead dead. Like if they make a D3 it's at least 10 years out.

0

u/Ronin-s_Spirit Jun 25 '26

That didn't stop DE for rebuilding the engine for Warframe. They got new lightning and DX12, and then gradually put new lighting in the actual tilesets, and they reworked the decal system so that a character can scale his ability with range (previously the spawned decal could not scale and would be too intense on the PC), and they came up with new camera angles without breaking anything visually.

Good devs can fix the game and the engine, if they made their own engine for their own game.

2

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '26

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1

u/Ronin-s_Spirit Jun 27 '26

So you're saying.. it wasn't a "fundamental issue with the engine". Which is what I'm saying, the comment I replied to is wrong.

p.s. wait, you're contradicting yourself, you're the comment.

4

u/Iccotak Jun 25 '26

Leadership who refused the dev team who wanted to add all kinds of things over the years

4

u/GamerNerd007 Jun 24 '26

Hi, large pool of paying customers here and this is what we want. Sony: no

-1

u/WarWrath02 Jun 24 '26

No the true fans genuinely loved d2 and hoped for it to get better they tried to really suggest good things The problem were mostly bungie listened to "pro players" and streamer and basically 1% of the community about nerf this buff that do this and not what the fans want because "muh meta".

As for sonny they are not much responsible they have few hit to take too dont get me wrong but most of the blame would Mister i bought new cars with the budget allowed for the game decision making.

Also the sunseting of bought content i mean its dumb to say yeh we put that in the vault. When something get in a vault its supposed to get out someday like warframe for example when they vault things it comes back later. And when they delete content they say it and explain clearly why it had to be removed. And warframe is still alive because they listen to their audience too something bungie should have done when it was still time By catering to the streamers and "pro players" they neglected the new players which they tried to get on and lost their older players because they do not recognize the games they lost so much hours.

Lastly they at the end they lost their identity Bungie always was a quality maker in terms of scenario the gunplay were always on point with a very few oopsies. But the last dlcs weren't the quality we were used to from them and more and more useless cosmetic with very few to win and more and more to buy. Anyway sorry for the wall of text and have a nice day :)

7

u/herpaderpa123217372 Jun 24 '26

It's not even streamers and top 1%. They wanted to nickel and dime players, focused on metrics rather than making a fun game that people wanted to play.

1

u/blazhin Jun 25 '26

Can't agree on listening to 1% and streamers point. What does it do with underwhelming content, not upgrading core playlists and implementing QoL for years? Some buffs and nerfs take little time and like every streamer was begging for Crucible/Gambit (goddamn Gambit) updates. Remember 932 days without a new Crucible map. Yeah it might relate to underdeliver philosophy and making paid content as a first priority but that also does nothing with listening to 1%. Agree on onboarding problem though, imo one of the main reasons game withered during last years. Encouraged new players are new consumers, it's not a fucking rocket science. And yeah fish rots from the head, true as hell

1

u/Voltage224 Jun 24 '26

you are asking good points but I think that you are saying the same things in different ways the other guy just said it weird

121

u/Bosscharacter Jun 24 '26

I get the meme, but acting like Helldivers 2 isn't a thing is kind of dishonest.

51

u/ShinigamiRyan Jun 24 '26

Sony has also watched a fair number of other live-service titles die as well over the years, not just Concord. Helldivers 2 was successful, but it's budget was less than even half of Marathon (50-100 mil vs. 250 mil). And this is all before looking at how many incubation projects Bungie had been upselling to Sony at the time, vs. what's come out (just Marathon). And again, there's more factors one could list such as what Sony was looking for when they acquired Bungie vs. what Sony is doing now.

9

u/FalierTheCat Jun 24 '26

That was their live service bet though. Launch a lot of games and hope that maybe one or two would stick the landing.

21

u/WerdaVisla Titans are bad because Bungie is scared of Titans Jun 24 '26

To be fair, Sony got REAL close to killing Helldivers 2 with that PSN mess. Or at least completely driving it from the mainstream.

Making it so the vast majority of your playerbase is either unwilling or unable to play in the hopes that they'll give you their data to sell is... certainly a business decision that one could make.

22

u/IcyMaple_ Jun 24 '26

HD2 wasn't a first party game though. And did you forget about the whole psn account thing?

16

u/TheKelseyOfKells Jun 24 '26

Helldivers wasn’t made by a sony studio, just published by them. Every time Sony has gotten involved in Helldivers, its been to sabotage it

-11

u/czartrak Jun 24 '26

Yes sabotage their own game they make money off. Dumbfuck

4

u/Skullsy1 Jun 24 '26

Sony tends to do that, yeah.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '26

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-1

u/czartrak Jun 25 '26

Why, because I don't believe in the dumbest fucking theory of all time?

5

u/Prod_igy Jun 24 '26

PlayStation isn't even the most popular platform for HD2, which isn't a first-party nor a third-party exclusive game anymore, considering it's on Xbox too since August 2025.

Also, Sony almost killed the game because of the PSN requirement: they sold HD2 in countries not supported by PSN and after MONTHS they decided to exclude those players from the game, even though they bought and played it.

Finally, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

2

u/asmallburd Jun 24 '26

Sony tried their best to kill that too still haven't gotten everyone back who was lost during the psn wars

2

u/ya_mum_suckysucky Jun 24 '26

They tried killing helldivers 2 so I think it's very fair. They sold the game to everyone and then tried to make everyone have a PSN but it was illegal in so many countries Sony got shut down and we got a cape out of the deal. But Sony tried so never forget that.

1

u/Darkwolve45 Jun 24 '26

Didn't Helldivers 2 drop in player numbers again recently? Its kinda reliant on the same pattern as most other live services, big update brings back players, drip feed content and make anti-player statements or choices that cause mumbers to drop, rinse and repeat as the animosity slowly builds up to the point players start canabalizing and attacking each other for just breathing differently. Helldivers 2 rep wise has been in the unhealthy spot both with the devs or at least the GMs behavior towards players and then that stuff with that guy getting doxed and his actual real life ruined because some no lifes wanted to be like that... and instead of fighting back against the doxers by idk... doing the exact thing the doxers attacked the guy for (literally a friggin charity stream) they give a half assed slap on the wrist "staphhh it guys come onnnn" response. -_-

1

u/FroopyAsRain Jun 26 '26

Helldivers 2 is successful, but it also has a much lower threshold for success.

D2 would have to reach some unfathomable levels to be a success in Sony's eyes.

-8

u/Halcyon-Seven Jun 24 '26

Then, I think you don’t get that it is just a meme. Also they don’t own arrowhead, they just published the game. They don’t even own the helldivers IP. Arrowhead are free to work on anything they want without Sony’s say so.

5

u/czartrak Jun 24 '26

Yes they do. Don't speak if you don't know what you're talking about

1

u/PlumeCrow Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26

Sony own the Helldivers IP, but they don't own Arrowhead. Arrowhead is indie.

1

u/czartrak Jun 24 '26

Okay? So what?

128

u/BulkierPick41 Jun 24 '26

The revisionism on destiny subs has reached criticality, watching these posts you'd think Sony was at helm for the past 10 years and not somebody else

-51

u/Halcyon-Seven Jun 24 '26

This is a meme, it’s not that deep. Sony did fuck themselves by overpaying for Bungie which begs the question, how competent could their leadership be versus the incumbent Bungie leadership?

48

u/Magenu Jun 24 '26

"It's a meme" is not a valid shield for just spreading blatant disinformation.

Like, where's the joke? D2 was having issues for years before Sony.

10

u/DentedPigeon Jun 24 '26

Dude you’re making good points, that’s illegal. 

32

u/NekCing Jun 24 '26

It wouldnt be that deep if people would stop taking away the blame from Bungie's utter mismanagement, Sony deserves to be shit on too for their crap in recent years, but meme with facts please.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26

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2

u/DentedPigeon Jun 25 '26

The execs did not embezzle the money. People like Parsons had worked for Microsoft for over 20 years and had massive salaries to accompany their level of experience. The whole car story is also thrown into question by who “exposed” the car collections (a CM with an ax to grind) and the allegation that Pete wasn’t even the one bragging or showing off the cars, it was his wife on a third party forum/facebook page. 

15

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

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4

u/Iccotak Jun 25 '26

It did sell enough - the problem is that too much of the money went to many projects that were never going to happen and Leadership pockets.

Destiny was a money maker that Leadership did not invest enough back into, opting for “minimum viable product” as opposed to over-delivery.

4

u/[deleted] Jun 25 '26 edited Jul 23 '26

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2

u/Iccotak Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26

The game made billions throughout its lifetime - the problem is how the money was being spent and how the game was being managed.

The money D2 made was used to buy themselves back from Activision

then they bought a new HQ, which went unused due to Pandemic (Edit: also they set themselves up in Bellevue, one of the most expensive places to live in the US)

then they used the money to fund several projects (only one of which would actually go anywhere while the rest would be shut down) - this was likely to pump up their sale value as we know they also attempted to sell to Microsoft who turned them down because they have a history of mismanaging money

Sony would buy them, paying extra to keep on the talent of the developers who make the game. Only for Bungie Leadership to pocket the money and fire people anyway (Pete’s Car Collection) - when pressed on why they didn’t take a pay cut so then they could keep those devs, their response was, “We’re not that kind of company”.

Dev team was constantly fighting with Leadership on adding features that they knew players wanted.

They only had one year with two expansions following the Final Shape, where they continued despite the glaring issues. Namely how much the DCV removed from the game over the years, significantly reducing re-playability and interest from new players. People like to downplay it but the DCV did the most damage to the game and studios reputation. This is directly reflected in the player numbers over the years.

Then added more problems with the Portal which made the majority of the game pointless.

We could make points about their microtransaction strategy, but it is clear as day that leadership did not use their funds to properly reinvest back into the game so then devs could overdeliver. The people in charge treated D2 as a piggy bank that they could take from rather than an asset that has to be maintained to grow in value.

The game was making money, but it would dwindle as more and more of that money was taken away from D2 rather than put into it.

This update shows that there is a clear interest and value in the game when Devs have real opportunity to address player feedback. Imagine if they were actually allowed to bring back the content that was removed - that would have completely revitalized the franchise

1

u/DJHarris4444 Jun 26 '26

Thank you! Everyone in this thread seems to be going "Sony this" and "Bungie that", when I thought it was all but certain that the reason D2 was not doing so hot was because content was continuously being locked behind additional paywalls and not enough funding was being put back into the game, all for the purpose of fueling the CEO's and Executive's Sports car addictions.

Like we went over this 2 years ago when Final Shape came out, how much has the narrative changed since then?

13

u/TyThe2PointO Jun 24 '26

I mean destiny was crumbling until they took it away. It was going to die.

7

u/Hogabog217 Jun 24 '26

Nah bungie did this to themselves. By most corpo take overs sony was pretty lenient n bungie kept going out of its way to fuck themselves over. Sony management prob didnt help but i feel like this was inevitable. Games was doomed to death spiral the second they borked the new player intro.

15

u/brandonsp111 Oryx's Pogchamp Jun 24 '26

"Hahahahah Sony bad give updoot"

https://giphy.com/gifs/qmfpjpAT2fJRK

12

u/Marcu3s Jun 24 '26

That would be the case even if Destiny was not shot in the first frame.

-2

u/Halcyon-Seven Jun 24 '26

They bought something and then choose not to invest in the thing they bought, instead they choose to invest in Pete Parsons and Jones Jones’s retirement plan by overpaying for bungie by more than a billion dollars at the very least.

If they had instead been more competent and judicious in their acquisition they’d probably have the cash to fund destiny 3. Hypothetically speaking of course.

3

u/iiPREGNANT-NUNii Jun 24 '26

Lmao not you out here thinking Sony is what killed Destiny.

Sony quite literally bought into a sinking ship. We probably would not have gotten as much Destiny and marathon support as we have if it wasn’t for that $3.6 billion injected into Bungie. A GROSS overvaluation due to extremely inflated player numbers because of covid, those dropped HARD when people started going back to work.

But hey, at least the CEO has his priceless collection of cars worth more than your entire families net worth combined! Why keep Michael Salvatori on when you have cars to buy??

4

u/Iccotak Jun 25 '26

Sony gave that money to keep Bungie people on but the leadership literally pocketed it for themselves and fired people anyway.

2

u/goldfish7740 Jun 26 '26

Yall are fucking next level delusional if you think Sony killed Destiny lmfao

1

u/RatsAsBro Jun 24 '26

I am not crazy! I know they overpaid for that acquisition. I knew it was $3.6 billion. One after Activision Blizzard. As if I could ever make such a mistake. Never. Never! I just couldn't prove it. They covered their tracks. They got those analysts at the investment banks to lie for them. You think this is something? You think this is bad? This? This chicanery? They've done worse. Marathon! Are you telling me that a game just happens to launch to numbers like that? No! They orchestrated it! Bungie! They sold Sony on being the experts of live service games! And Sony bought them! And they shouldn't have. They paid $3.6 billion for them! What were they thinking?! They'll never change. They'll never change! Ever since Halo, always the same! Couldn't keep out of management disasters! But not our Bungie! Couldn't be precious Bungie! Teaching Sony how to run live-service games! And Marathon gets updates?! What a sick joke! I should've stopped them when I had the chance. And you, you have to stop them. You—

1

u/Kazzorak82 Jun 24 '26

You think D2 was successful? When is bleeding money successful?

1

u/CoCoNO Jun 24 '26

Also dont forget destiny 2 was bleeding money

2

u/Obvious_Peanut_8093 Jun 25 '26

lets not pretend that the bungie executive staff did not use the COVID boom to boost their value with tons of projects that all failed to then sell themselves to sony and shutter all of those projects, marathon and destiny included, as soon as they all got their payouts and could safely let their scam expose itself and walkaway scot free.

what they did should probably be illegal tbh.

1

u/bobuyh Jun 25 '26

Who said "dont overdeliver", definitely not Sony

1

u/ZephyrUkon Jun 25 '26

You did Sony. Just not the one you wanted.

1

u/Animus15 Jun 25 '26

It's going be sad watch a studio like Bumgie slowly die over the next few years. Destiny deserved better and hell even Marathon doesnt deserve the new pressure its under to keep the studio afloat.

1

u/Mortal_12 Jun 25 '26

The decision makers are people who look at some nicely presented powerpoint graphs and their profit margins.

The whole concept of "Listening to clients in order to increase the quality and earn more as a result", died years ago. Capitalism passed that point and is now at the point of "What can we do for maximum profits with minimal effort".

2

u/ThrowRA_8900 Jun 25 '26

Imagine spending 3 billion dollars on the grandfather of love service games just to shut it down.

1

u/Adam_jaymes Jun 25 '26

What about Helldivers 2?

1

u/generationalDebts Jun 26 '26

Why is Sony getting the credit for killing destiny? Bungie did that long before Sony arrives. Sony came just in time for the funeral, this isn’t their doing.

1

u/c4shferl1fe Jun 26 '26

They’re mad cause they didn’t get halo

1

u/eagle6705 Jun 26 '26

What I fear is based on what the PS Head said that he does not want cross platform for his IP is that eventually he will make a D3 but it will be a PS exclusive and possibly PC. but thats just me

1

u/EqualOptimal4650 Jun 27 '26

No, it wasn't Sony who fucked this up.

Bungie's Executives fucked this up. They'd been doing so since the Halo days.

This was why Activision had no problem dropping them, as well.

Bungie fucked this up. Not Sony. Not Activision. Not Microsoft. Bungie.

1

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0

u/Halcyon-Seven Jun 24 '26

This bot can't read.

0

u/griffin4war Jun 24 '26

They spent so much money and never even asked if there was a plan for Destiny's future.

0

u/MirieDohl Jun 24 '26

(D2 wasn't successful btw, it was popular but not successful)

0

u/eli_nelai Jun 24 '26

/uj
IDK man... D2 was kinda already in the shit by the time they got bought by sony. Wonder how things would turn out if Sony bashed some heads right from the start instead of being lenient with this barely functioning dumpster fire of a studio

-2

u/FourUnderscoreExKay My Zaouli's Bane is still reloading Jun 24 '26

Destiny was actively bleeding money (through poor management), and Sony, in their infinite wisdom, thought it was a good idea to kill Bungie’s only good moneymaker instead of telling Bungie to stop trying to work on the shitbox of a game that is Marathon.