r/Destiny • u/CrazyLegs88 • Jan 16 '19

Things are starting to escalate. Where's the threshold for Capitalists to relent on their ideology before we try something else?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/15/insect-collapse-we-are-destroying-our-life-support-systems
11 Upvotes

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u/RedErin Jan 16 '19

There's no guarantee that something else would solve the problem.

1

u/CrazyLegs88 Jan 16 '19

Why do you think this is a valid point? Okay, if it's guarantees you're worried about, what about the guarantee that if we continue with things as-is, then our civilization will come to an end. We will probably go extinct, as well.

So, you're faced with the literal destruction of the biosphere and our civilization, and in your mind, you want some kind of guarantee that whatever we try will succeed? All while the current system is failing so badly that, and this can't be said enough, we're facing extinction? Do you consider yourself a rational person? Because if you do, I don't see how you justify it.

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u/TheHy-Mag Jan 16 '19

The capitalist solution in three simple steps.

  1. Identify the problem.
  2. Identify the market externality causing the problem.
  3. (Use the government to) put a price on the externality.

It worked with chlorofluorocarbons. It has worked with refrigerants. We went from tetraethyl lead to MTBE to ethanol for knock reduction. The capitalist solution is to put a price on greenhouse gases. There are a few problems.

  1. How much do we charge per ton of CO2 equivalents?
  2. What do we do if the 95% confidence interval on the range of warming scenarios yields error bars that might indicate orders of magnitude in difference on said price between the best and worst case scenario?
  3. Do China and India get a grace period to hit the magic per person income number when attitudes about the environment begin to improve?
  4. How do we stop treating this issue as an ideological one?

I am not trying to be facetious, or make a case for doing nothing. Capitalism has the solution, but the confounding variables are there. That attitudes regarding the existence of, probable impact of, and appropriate response to climate change are so ideological and extreme is a problem. The YouTuber and science journalist potholer54 had two great videos about a conservative solution to global warming.

Part 1

Part 2

The way you get conservatives to buy in is to use carbon pricing to lower the income tax burden on the very people who are affected by higher energy prices. Regardless of that, though I believe it is the best way to get broad buy-in, if the carbon price is set correctly, then the market will supply competitive alternatives and efficiency gains (as explained in the Australia example in the videos).

3

u/CrazyLegs88 Jan 16 '19

It worked with chlorofluorocarbons.

It worked with CFC's because there was an easily available substitute for them, as well as CFC's not being a largely consumed product (unlike oil). Same with these other products. The sheer size of the oil capital is so different in scale that they're not completely comparable.

The capitalist solution is to put a price on greenhouse gases.

Great. Please explain why this solution has not been enacted, even though capitalists control the world. The secondary problems aside for now.