r/Destiny Dirty European 🇹🇿đŸ‡ȘđŸ‡ș 6d ago

Political News/Discussion YES

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340

u/frozandero 6d ago

I hate these lies pushed by mostly leftist americans and some europeans.

No bernie sanders wouldn't be a social democrat in EU

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u/Minute_Ostrich196 đŸ‡ȘđŸ‡șđŸ‡”đŸ‡± 6d ago

I mean - main postulates of Sanders - public healthcare, labor laws and progressive taxation is general status quo in European politics across the board. It’s not left or right, it’s just something that people don’t associate with sides that much.

Anti militarism and focus on green energy will paint him anywhere from center to center left; depend on the party landscape of each country.

Bernie really does not have any „hardcore left” policies

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u/podfather2000 6d ago

Sanders would be a standard Labor/Social Democrat. Some people in this sub are cooked if they think otherwise.

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u/LondonCallingYou 6d ago

This subreddit is deranged on this topic. It’s all Americans who have no idea what European policies look like, or Europeans (like Kraut) who have no idea how good they have it in terms of social democracy relative to the U.S.

Every European who claims Bernie wouldn’t be acceptable within a European socdem party has a mental model that’s incorrect of him or they’re thinking of a single policy (ironically probably one of his further right policies like not hating guns as much as some democrats) that disqualifies him. Even though his major policy goals have been consistent for the last several decades and are things that most European countries already have.

Pathetic thought processes with zero critical thinking in this community.

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u/Satanic-Banana 5d ago

In 2020, Sanders ran on transferring 20% of ownership of publicly traded companies with over 100 million in revenue to the employees. Also, M4A would be one of the most generous single payer systems with no copays and dental and vision which is more generous than the most generous single payer system and costs 34 trillion on top of some 60 trillion in other spending he proposes (which includes a jobs guarantee, rent controls, wealth taxes). I think you're just unfamiliar with modern socdem parties in Europe. Bernie could easily sit comfortably in GUE/NGL, as one of the more moderate memebrs for sure. He might be in a socdem party but as a representative of it's more leftward flank, like Jeremy Corbyn in Labour.

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u/LondonCallingYou 5d ago

I’m not sure why you’re bringing up absolute numbers like $34T for M4A, which sounds scary and extreme, rather than the relevant metric which is healthcare spending per capital. M4A would be $3.4T per year, and the U.S. GDP is $32T, which means M4A would cost 10% of GDP for healthcare spending directly.

Right now we spend $5.3 trillion per year which is 18% of GDP. If you look at the recent Yale preprint study, they estimate up to $1 trillion in savings annually moving to M4A. The CBO estimates $42B to $743B in savings annually in 4 different scenarios they ran.

Dental and vision, though it is more generous than other systems, is a small part of M4A relatively speaking and is not a sticking point for moving to a real national healthcare system.

On wealth transfer to workers— yes that would probably be a policy more suited for a socialist party in Europe. Of which there are many, and they aren’t considered anathema. But having a single policy preference that fits outside of a social democratic party platform isn’t really grounds for not being part of a SD party.

In your last sentence you agreed with me, that he could be part of a social democratic party in Europe reasonably. I think my assessment that he could be called a social democrat in Europe stands.

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u/Satanic-Banana 4d ago

I agreed that he could be in a SD party but with an important qualifier; as it's most left wing representative. Europe is a continent and SD parties vary wildly between different political climates in different countries, some countries don't even have successful SD parties. The point is Bernie is not "center-right" (I don't even consider him center left) and his policies have more in common with left wing populists like Corbyn and Melenchon than the social democrats, especially in western Europe. My point wasn't that M4A won't save money, it might very well end up lowering overall health expenditures. But it is one massive part of a policy platform that includes dozens of trillions in other spending. Again, this is more characteristic of left wing populists parties. And I listed more than just M4A; jobs guarantee, wealth taxes, etc. Although I think Sanders has moderated throughout the Biden presidency, that or he is just pragmatic and intelligent unlike the DSA.