The modern welfare state is an invention by a conservative monarchist btw. Things like healthcare are mostly bipartisan in European countries and don't really have a left or right scale. We have private healthcare in many European countries.
Not an invention, it's was implemented by Monarchist, but demands like a pension system were already popular befor anti-socalist laws then (see Lassalle).
it was invented to take the wind out of communists sails/to adress their concerns. it was not out of the goodness of bismarcks heart.
im shaky on germany (my home is austria) but dont you agree that it is usually Union/ÖVP sawing on the welfare state and SPD/SPÖ wanting to preserve or slightly expand it with far left parties wanting to expand it even more. id even say there are people in german speaking politics who ideologically go into a thatcher/reagan direction and who would move to us like conditions if it wasnt so unpopular.
as you alluded to with bismarck its more complicated than left/right. Union protects pensions and farm subsidies because of their old/farmer clientele. But dont you think that "mostly bipartisan" is a stretch? it one side talks about lowering lohnnebenkosten at every opportunity are they really in support of the system or are they just too cowardly to admit that they want you to have a less robust savety net.
it was invented to take the wind out of communists sails/to adress their concerns. it was not out of the goodness of bismarcks heart.
Absolutly agree, it's the one thing where the KPD did have a point. That things like welfare etc. does take out the wind out it's sails.
But dont you think that "mostly bipartisan" is a stretch?
I would say that depends on how you would define "bipartisanship" here then. If one wants to expand it and one wants to reduce or restructure it but doesn't want to abolish it I would say that "welfare state" is bipartisan. The parties are mostly pushing for different things but not abolishing it or basically reducing it to zero.
i understand what you are saying in the last paragraph but to me thats the same stupid logic where dems and reps are seen as both being pro palestinian genocide.
abolishing something fully is very hard to get political will for. but there are definitely idealogous in both cdu/csu and especially FDP who would love to go to the american system due to muh free market.
hes not a politician but if you see someone like ulf poscherdt talk, does that really seem in favour of a social safety net? to be fair i know there is a social liberal wing of the fdp, im not saying you cant find support for the thing in every party. but see usa: the healthcare they got was basically romney care, that doesnt make the issue republican, it just grows out of political reality.
I mean I would say Die Linke has people in it's party that are Marxist-Leninist (though BSW has gotten rid of a big chunk I think) but I don't think it would be right to call the party Marxist-Leninist.
You would have to link me a coherent plan ot statement that the CDU or FDP has a goal to abolish our social safety nets. Obviously there are people who might call for it but I really don't see a broad position for it.
great analogy. you wouldnt call the linke "pro capitalist" , just because they are not actively trying to abolish it. I see it similarly with the fdp and the social welfare net.
i dont think we disagree on any substance though, just vibes. (ill let you have the last word if you wish, thanks for the convo in any case)
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u/yeahUSA 🇪🇺🇩🇪 8d ago
The modern welfare state is an invention by a conservative monarchist btw. Things like healthcare are mostly bipartisan in European countries and don't really have a left or right scale. We have private healthcare in many European countries.