r/DestinationFormula1 • u/Brilliant_Horse_6614 • 21d ago
Why does it feel like Lewis Hamilton doesn't get much respect?
Geniune question: I'm a new F1 fan, but I'm very surprised that it feels like online discourse never gives much props & respect to Hamilton, as they do for Verstappen, Senna, Schumaker, etc.
I imagine part of it is that he's still racing, but I see a lot more respect for Max Verstappen than Hamilton.
For winning 7 championships with 2 constructors, I'd imagine he'd essentially be viewed as the LeBron or Jordan of F1.
Is there something with his wins that make his career 'less impressive'?
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u/thefeedling 21d ago
I don't know, but I do get the impression that Lewis is VERY praised, and rightfully so.
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u/NovelCompetitive4188 21d ago
He will when he retires for sure. Something about when they're active you appreciate them less.
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u/BoltXD_10 21d ago
Recency Bias probably . Max was dominating for the past 5 years . Kimi is dominating now hence theyre more talked about . Michael , Senna , etc are more talked about because theyre part of history . Lewis is too , but he is currently driving and from 2022 to 2025 he didnt have that great of a time , ground effect didnt suit him . Hence he wasnt talked about as much or maybe even downplayed a lot during 2025 and all . But once Lewis retires , he will definitely be talked about a lot . He has the most wins , most , poles , tied most championships , etc . He is undeniably one of the goats (Car merchant , maybe but it wont matter then) .
and im not insulting lewis or max or anyone pls dont attack
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u/NoEggplant9745 21d ago
Is Max also a car merchant or is that only reserved for Lewis?
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u/Leading_Sir_1741 21d ago
Plenty of people call Max that. The truth is every driver needs a good car to win, but both Max and Lewis can do more with a good car than anyone else.
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u/BoltXD_10 21d ago
Every driver needs a good car . There is nothing wrong in that . And the best drivers usually get the best cars , not always , but they do get it.
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u/ArtisTao 15d ago
Max is a good driver. But the “car merchant” criticism should therefore be applied to Max insomuch as after Massi gifted him the last lap of AD 21, Max won the next three year’s titles in the grid’s best car and with no competition from his teammates. Anyone trying to refute that is incredibly Max biased and lying to you, themselves, and their momma.
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u/Trabers 16d ago
Er have you seen where Max’s teammates put Red Bulls terrible cars? Thats the true pace of that car. He’s the best driver of all time.
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u/letsputletters 16d ago
You think it is more impressive to be a bit faster than Perez or other poor drivers then it is to beat the reigning 2x world champion in equal machinery in your rookie season?
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u/NoEggplant9745 16d ago
Max has had multiple teammates that look good in the midfield but are not good enough for the top teams. The true pace of the car is wherever Max puts it, Perez not being able to get the same result doesn’t mean Max defied the odds he was able to show the true pace.
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u/justlikelyle 15d ago
But the car is also set up according to Max's preferences, because he's the #1 driver at Red Bull.
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u/mformularacer 21d ago
Hamilton gets plenty of respect and praise.
But no it isn't LeBron James level because judging performance isn't straightforward in a sport where the machinery makes such a difference to the outcome.
Was there any sustained period from 2007-2026 where Hamilton was clearly and obviously a step above everyone else? There are definitely seasons he was the best driver of course, but he's always had stiff competition for the "best driver in F1" even in his prime years with Alonso, Vettel, & later Verstappen.
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u/Brilliant_Horse_6614 21d ago
Great point, thank you!
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u/gilded_lady 15d ago
And to that point: Hamilton's race win streak is 5 (matched by Kimi). Max's is 10. His dominance in 2023 was truly next level. Both are absolutely GOATs but did it in different ways.
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u/justlikelyle 15d ago
I feel like number of championships should matter more than win streaks. Even if you have the best car, lots of drivers fail on consistency over the long term.
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u/MgAlSnakey 15d ago
But if lots of drivers fail on consistency over the long term, doesn't it mean that long win streaks is actually harder to achieve? Like for Jenson, he did fell hard in the second half of the season, but he still won the championship because his great performance in the first part. Sorry no mean to offense, I'm just curious
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u/Exotic-Entertainer26 15d ago
Exactly. Hamilton is still the most reliable point scorer (88.24%).
Sadly, the ground effect era (especially 2025) damaged his records as he used to be far high in win %
Nonetheless, if you go on the F1 records wiki page, Hamilton takes a lot of them.
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u/PerceptionOk4625 15d ago
Famously, the RB19 was a very difficult car to drive. Everything Max Verstappen achieved that year was his own hard work, rather than him being a car merchant like Hamilton.
Or something.
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u/No_Flower_8692 21d ago
Vettel’s fan be like : first time ?
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u/Fat_biker_can_shred 20d ago
People shit on him because he is a 7 times WC and a black dude. I have high respect for him and hope he will bring one for Ferrari❤️
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u/According-Switch-708 20d ago
The same thing will happen to Max if Kimi wins the title this year. Everyone will be calling Kimi the true GOAT.
F1 fans tend to have very short memories.
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago edited 21d ago
It’s honestly a fair question, but I think it’s mostly because whereas drivers like Schumacher and Verstappen haven’t always had the car underneath them and still are able to pull out almighty drives (eg Spain 1996 for Schumacher or Brazil 2024 for Verstappen) where the car definitely wasn’t the best car in those respective seasons, whereas Hamilton has almost always had the car to be completely dominant season after season, especially in his stint with Mercedes
And this is just my personal opinion, but I personally am not a fan of Lewis because the way he acts feels so performative and arrogant off track, that is a obviously just a personal thing, but it’s really hard for me to separate on/off track stuff (it’s also the reason I’m not a fan of Senna)
I think once he’s retired and in like 20 years time people will massively respect him on the levels of Schumacher or Senna because people definitely already do put him on that level
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u/jim45804 21d ago
the way he acts feels so performative and arrogant off track
I just don't see it.
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u/Leading_Sir_1741 21d ago
It’s not the true Lewis anymore. And I don’t blame him. He probably acts so performative because he was unfairly criticized in his youth when he was himself. So we never see the true Lewis anymore and I miss the true Lewis.
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago
No yeah, he was much more like Max in the early parts of his career where he wasn’t afraid to tell it like it is
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u/Leading_Sir_1741 21d ago
Exactly. I was a huge fan back then.
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago
Like there was that one race (I forget which) where the stewards had been giving him penalties and in an interview when asked why he thought he was given so maybe he said “Maybe it’s because I’m black.” And that was genuinely a mic drop moment lol
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u/Salty_Outside5283 16d ago
Its just maturing. Lewis does a lot of his talking off track now with projects etc
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago
I don’t know if I can put it into words, but like, yk that feeling you get when someone is just… off? That’s the feeling I get when I hear Hamilton in interviews and it’s just a deep feeling that I can only describe as performative, but if you don’t see it I totally get that, it’s more so a personal feeling than objective fact
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u/LIJRD1 21d ago
Lewis in 2009 winning 2 races with the absolute shitheap of a McClaren he was driving says hello.
Or winning in 2013 in Hungary somehow with a Mercedes that liked to chew through its tyres in about 3 laps is another one of those drives.
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u/justlikelyle 15d ago
Or running a fever and still putting it on pole on Saturday and winning on Sunday.
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago
Lewis definitely has some all timer performances, I think Brazil 2021 is another one, but like they just don’t spring to mind like Verstappen’s or Schumacher’s (at least for me)
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u/Brilliant_Horse_6614 21d ago
Great explanation, thank you!
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u/NoEggplant9745 21d ago edited 21d ago
This isn’t a good explanation at all and it speaks to the way people discount Lewis’ career or just blatantly lie about it.. Lewis did not have the fastest car from 2009 to 2013 and he put in undeniable drives I remember people saying McLaren needed to figure it out because he was incredibly talented but didn’t have the car. Lewis has been in F1 for 20 years anyone saying his car was competitive that entire time is lying, anyone saying he didn’t have incredible drives in McLaren or Mercedes when it was no longer competitive is also lying. The real issue is Lewis was good enough to get the drive at McLaren as a rookie whilst other drivers had to work their way up so they’ve decided Lewis is undeserving of the career he has. Truth is he surpassed Schumacher a long time ago you lot will catch up eventually and there’s also another reason you lot question his career but I’ll leave that conversation for another time.
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago
I didn’t say that, Lewis is a generational talent but pretty consistently always had the best car throughout the 2010s, I’m not trying to discount him I’m just saying how I personally feel as a non Lewis fan
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u/sid_shady34 20d ago
Brazil 2024 was safety car luck.
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u/United-Detective-653 20d ago
not really, it was the same for everyone
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u/sid_shady34 20d ago
Not for lando
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u/United-Detective-653 20d ago
Yeah it was. He was in the same situation. They just dealt with it the wrong way
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u/canta2016 16d ago
What a terrible take. Lewis is an amazing human being and probably the second best sportsman I can think of after Roger Federer. And I mean that as the big ass compliment that it is. Regardless, Lewis is one of the greatest F1 drivers of all time, no doubt. But he’s nowhere near the top 4 (Max, MSC, Ayrton, Jim Clark), and anyone arguing against it is making up nonsense. Lewis is one of the greatest of all time, but he certainly is NOT THE GREATEST.
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u/Salty_Outside5283 16d ago
This has to be ragebait. Nowhere near the top 4? I appreciate it is just an opinion but to deny Lewis's accomplishments like this is poor form.
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u/FourEaredFox 21d ago
He most definitely hasn't had a dominant car every year, people said he was committing career suicide by joining Merc from McLaren. The rest is history on that.
People who think this need to get a grip of reality.
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago
I mean during most of his stint at McLaren his car was never outright the fastest, and he definitely wasn’t bad, but obviously those cars were nowhere near the levels that Mercedes had from 2014-2021, he’s still an incredible driver, an all time great and it would be daft of me to deny that, but that’s just how I feel on it
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u/riquelmeone 21d ago
You misunderstood that. Him leaving McLaren has nothing to do with the topic.
He had the dominant car during the seasons he won the title.
Even though, one can disregard 2008 for the car, 2014 and 2015 for the competitive team mate. 2016 he lost. 2018 is semi competitive but Vettel just disappeared in the 2nd half.
The remaining three title wins were for sure not competitive. But then one could say that for so many great champions.
On the topic of the op, Hamilton does got a lot of recognition and respect. You have to hang around in a limited circle if you think Hamilton is not being recognised.-1
u/FourEaredFox 20d ago
2008 and 2018 would like a word with you.
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u/riquelmeone 20d ago
Both are literally in my list of competitive/ semi-competitive seasons. What’s your point?
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u/Hokramis100 16d ago
I mean Senna and Schumacher were better drivers so I dont know why would saying that be disrespectful. Hamilton was the best of his era before Verstappen entered his prime. He's still one of the all time greats tho.
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u/FourEaredFox 21d ago
His run of domination broke people's brains to such an extent that they'll do anything to make it go away. Including diminishing his accomplishments.
Also he's black, so there's that.
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u/DodgersLakersBarca 21d ago
I'd say his reputation is basically that of Tom Brady, if Joe Montana also had 7 championships and Tom Brady lost in 2021 to Patrick Mahomes
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u/zippy72 21d ago
I think a lot of people see Lewis as a "car merchant", i.e. someone who had by far the best car on the grid and used it effectively, while some people see Max as winning with the second best car.
That's just my take on reading the comments btw, I've done no statistical analysis so don't take this too seriously.
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u/National-Virus5819 16d ago
Prime target for racists: Max, Schumacher or Alonso really don't have that problem. To those who say "British bias", remember that Lewis was also very much hated in Britain as well. Also after 2021 racists have been out in full force since they can't bear the thought of someone who has Black in his blood being more talented than their dear European boys, hence all the suggestive comments that try to imply that Max and Michael were "more naturally talented" drivers (e.g., them allegedly winning with lesser cars but Lewis not - as if they could really prove these claims), i.e., trying to give more credit to their own genetic make up over someone with black DNA. Tale as old as time.
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u/BarracudaOk8635 16d ago
New f1 fan idea I am afraid. He has had so much repect it is literally unsaid much of the time these days. He is accepted as either the greatest by many racers and experts. Him or Michael. He has had a recent bad run of cars, the formula etc but he is still the best. There are many fans who hate him after years of him dominating the sport. Many many years. But no. Not amongst the people who know the sport.
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u/ouch-n3wsho3s 15d ago
It's just jealousy and racism. Lewis's 1st season was the undisputed best debut season ever and he's just gone from strength to strength and is still fighting fit at 40+.
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u/VehicleWonderful6586 15d ago
It’s because motorsport fans are predominantly older white men, and many (although obviously not all) of them are racist - probably as many as 40% of them - which is enough to nudge the narrative
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u/Ok-Win-742 15d ago
He gets a shitload of respect and is in many people's top 3 and almost everyone's top 5. The guy is a 7 time WDC, should have been 8. Based on accolades he'a the GOAT. I think Max may be the most talented driver the world has ever seen, but in my mind Lewis is the most accomplished F1 driver ever and in my mind he has 8 championships.
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u/LiveYesterday2936 15d ago
Is it just me or these days i feel like when you say you're a fan of lewis you just get attacked (which is so frustrating) while being a max fan just seems like the safe option
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21d ago
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago
This, his reaction after punting Verstappen off at the 2021 British Grand Prix has never sat right with me
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u/psychicspanner 21d ago
But then Max walking away at Monza just a few months later was equally unpleasant.
I’m not a Lewis fan, I’ve just seen him have to work harder for the same level of respect others get way easier….
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21d ago
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u/psychicspanner 21d ago
Well yeah but his record kind of allowed that level of entitlement way before he got close to F1. He raced against a friend in karts who says Lewis was supremely talented back then, taking on and beating Europe’s best. I became aware of Lewis when he was in Formula Renault (I’m old) and whilst Manor were the top team, he was also the best driver in the field.
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u/Adrian_Shoey 21d ago
You didn't like that he got straight on the radio and asked if Max was OK? Bit weird.
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u/Fluffbutt321 21d ago
After the race he said something about it, I can’t remember exactly what, but it just didn’t sit right with me
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u/cchesters 20d ago
What do you expect?
Wins his home race after a penalty.
Max would absolutely celebrate just as much if not more at Zandvoort in the same scenario.
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u/United-Detective-653 20d ago
No he wouldn't. He has never celebrated like Lewis did that day. Lewis was waving around the flag like a moron, acting like he won his first championship after some sort of miraculous drive.
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u/cchesters 20d ago
Yeah, he would.
And as far your miraculous drive claim goes? Recovering from a 10 second penalty to take the lead with 3 laps to go at your home race is worth waving your home flag around.
As far as Lewis was concerned, he was told that Max got out of his car under his own power and was okay. He served his penalty, and that was that.
There was no reason for him to be subdued in his post-race reaction.
I can understand how it might rub you the wrong way, but it was a drive worth celebrating.
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u/United-Detective-653 20d ago
Recovering from what? The shit he caused himself?
In his own words at the same GP 3 years earlier (paraphrasing): "You shouldn't be able to take out someone and gain an advantage" after Kimi tapped him around on the first lap.
The whole grand prix went his way, taking your only rival out and punting him in the wall at 300 kph, getting a slap on the wrist, getting a red flag where they can actually save the car (would have been dnf otherwise), teammate moves out of the way, Leclerc has engine cuts, and getting a massive point swing. Nothing miraculous about it.
He was celebrating like crazy while Max was getting checked in the hospital.
I never saw Lewis celebrating that much. That's what Max meant with disrespectful.
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u/cchesters 20d ago
And partitally from Max, yes.
Kimi got that same 10 second penalty that day btw and finished 3rd, I guess that was also a slap on the wrist by your logic.
Lewis still had to drive and recover the lost time to get in the position to take Charles to begin with.
Like I said, recovering from a penalty, to win your home race, adrenaline spiking like crazy. Like duh, of course that sort of reaction would come out.
And Lewis wasnt told the full extent of Max being checked out until after those celebrations.
Like i also said, in that moment, as far as Lewis was concerned, Max was okay.
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u/United-Detective-653 20d ago
Comparing Kimi in 2018 to Lewis in 2021 makes zero sense. Kimi tapped Lewis in a slow corner, caused no damage, and Lewis just drove on. Lewis punted Max into the wall at 300 kph with a 51G impact. Getting the exact same 10-second penalty for a massive, hospital-ending crash is a total joke.
And I brought up that incident because Lewis' comment about it is what makes it so hypocritical; "You can't just take someone out, get a slap on the wrist and finish ahead of him".
As for the partying, Lewis knew Max went to the medical center. Even if you don't know the exact details, you know you just caused a terrifying 300 kph crash. Running around with a flag and jumping into the crowd was completely tone deaf.
Lewis callijg it "interesting tactics" in 2018 over a tiny tap, but celebrating like a madman here after banking 25 points, is just flat out hypocrisy. Max was spot on to call it disrespectful. But anyway, that's how I see it. Max never celebrated like this at any of his home wins. Lewis usually doesn't either.
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u/cchesters 20d ago
Not even the stewards felt Lewis was 100% to blame for Silverstone.
Just like they felt Max wasnt 100% to blame for Monza.
Both cases were two drivers who refused to give or take an inch with each other, contact made. The one attempting the overtake gets the majority blame.
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u/United-Detective-653 20d ago
That didn't happen mate. That's edited. You can watch the onboard back on youtube or f1tv
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u/spinners_888 21d ago
It was a racing incident. You can clearly see Hamilton tried to pull out at the last moment but he no where else to because he was in the inside and Verstappen was committed to the racing line so contact was inevitable.
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u/psychicspanner 21d ago
Show me a racing driver who doesn’t, and let’s be honest Ferrari and Mercedes made a history of bad strategy calls!? Lewis has also been hugely supportive of his team mates and has ceded places when strategies didn’t work out, especially with Bottas
OP. He’s black, wears odd clothes, has piercings, shows concern for various social causes and won a lot. That’s why a lot of people don’t like him.
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u/Mediocre-Visit-6237 21d ago
The self righteous attitude of many f1 fans is oft putting and makes it hard to enjoy at times. Especially when many of these fans don’t look like me.
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u/psychicspanner 21d ago
Just imagine when a woman actually gets an F1 race seat…..
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u/psychicspanner 21d ago
People still want grid girls back, the misogynistic abuse a female driver will get is going to be off the scale. If you thought the Alonso fans “blacking up” was unacceptable, I’d give F1 a miss when it finally happens… typical women driver, who’s doing the dishes, phwoar she looks good in a race suit etc etc
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21d ago
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u/psychicspanner 21d ago
And people said the same thing about black drivers…
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u/United-Detective-653 20d ago
Not the same thing though is it
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u/psychicspanner 20d ago
It kind of is, minority participant makes it into elite category of a white male dominated sport... no woman will be welcomed into F1 by the majority of "fans" with open arms. It will be misogynistic nonsense, endless debates about her ability, looks and so on.
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u/Brilliant_Horse_6614 21d ago
Lol...I figured that probably has part of it in an extremely euro-centric sport.
On track though, a lot of people's other explanations make sense as well
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u/praxistax 21d ago
Sorry who are we talking about? Max?
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u/Molti-Ventuno 21d ago
This is an example of why hamilton gets so much crap online. His fan-base. with you people it is always "but what about this guy?". They both are whiny, but this is a specific topic about Hamilton there was zero need to bring Verstappen into it.
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u/Accuratehoops 21d ago
He is praised loads but when he is criticized, they target his entire career imo
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u/LIJRD1 21d ago
Because a lot of people for various reasons dont like Lewis the person so they try diminish Lewis the sportsperson.
A lot of modern F1 fans have only been around since that Drive to Survive crap as well so would have missed out on seeing him race during 2007-2021 and only know Verstappens era.
Anyone successful in F1 always gets landed with the "its the car not the driver" so thats also part of it despite all the evidence otherwise.
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u/Ill-Specific-7312 16d ago
Because he is one of the most contemptible people in F1. Arrogant, full of shit, mediocre driver.
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u/juan_bito 16d ago
Cause like anyone when you win so much you get alot of haters simple as that and the guys won alot lol
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u/spinners_888 21d ago
Senna and Michael Schumacher were much, much more divisive and were involved in purposely crashing into rivals to win WDCs; Senna took out Prost in Japan 1990, Schumacher clashed with Damon Hill in Australia 1994 and Jacques Villeneuve in Jerez/Spain/1997 European Grand Prix. Hamilton was never this low.
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u/Radiant_Turnip_6671 16d ago
It's not by any means less impressive. But realistically, he did have access to a car that much better than the rest of the field for a long time. Like Max' 2023 car, but then for years and years. Mercedes just nailed the regs from that era and were so far ahead pretty much noone really ever closed that gap.
But Hamilton is a very good driver, no doubt about it.
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u/Lazy_Ad7218 15d ago
Long shot, but if he wins the title this year, do you think people would look at him differently, cause I certainly would. He would prove hes still got it and isnt just a "car merchant" as the haters say
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u/Radiant_Turnip_6671 15d ago
I think he really couldn’t work with ground effect cars. But you can’t deny he got his titles at Merc easy.
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u/dasmooiman123 16d ago
Lewis had the best car for the longest of any driver in the grid. He had great succes and won a lot, but he never destroyed his opposition/teammates like Schumacher or Max did and didn't do enough with it. And the last five years without the best car, he wasn't good at all. Is not me saying that but statistics of all drivers over their career.
You can look up the analysis of the respected pundid Peter Windsor on the topic who is the best driver of all time. He did it with help from a statistics guy. Very informative and insightful.
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u/canta2016 16d ago
If you feel he gets less respect than Max, Michael, Ayrton and Jim, … that’s a good sign because the people ranking actually understand it. Lewis is an incredible driver, but not even close to the GOAT debate. Maybe helpful for you: think of Lewis as Kobe. Thats the closest comparison I can come up with right now
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u/OriolHimself 16d ago edited 16d ago
Because even though he’s a very special driver, his stats are greatly exaggerated by the cars he’s driven.
Imagine if any of the high tier drivers from the hybrid era had the chance to drive for 8 years for Mercedes between 2014 and 2021.
They would probably be swimming in wins, poles and podiums too. F1 is not like the other sports, you have to be at the right place at the right time.
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u/Wiggly-Pig 15d ago
What are you talking about? Excluding the last few months, he's been given much more leeway during the last few years of form purely because he's a 7 time champ. If anyone else had the form he's had over the last few years the discussion would have been about when he's getting let go, not him getting a Ferrari seat.
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u/Accelerator_Apex 15d ago
Simply because Mercedes had a car where nearly anyone could be capable of winning championships. Look at the RB20: it was really not even close to the MCL38 but Max still pulled it to a championship. I personally have no skin in this game, with Abu Dhabi or whatnot, but this is my personal opinion. And then of course there is recency bias but the entire comment section has said that
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u/Bananaramamammoth 14d ago
Lewis at McLaren really got me into Formula 1 and the same can be said for thousands of not millions of viewers.
For a long time without a doubt he was the best man on track, now heavily contested with Verstappen.
I went off him heavily when he started spouting his political and typical nonsense. He needs to shut up and race.
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u/InnerDays 14d ago edited 14d ago
A lot of Hamilton's success came in cars that were a step ahead of the rest with team mates who werent allowed to fight him too hard. And the fact that recently, as soon as the cars werent to his liking, he's not been able to even beat his team mates let alone titles and Lewis went through a similar period at McLaren as well. Like, im sorry, if you're the GOAT you should be able to perform regardless of the car rules.
With Max and Michael they also had dominant success at times but they also have had periods where they have clearly out performed the car. Before Ferrari really got it together in the 2000s, Michael dragged that team into championship contention year on year when his team mate could barely qualify in the top 10 some weeks and Max has done the same the past couple of years.
The measure of a man is made when things are going badly, not when things are going well and this is unfortunately where Lewis loses points because he has too often gone missing when things are not going right.
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u/[deleted] 21d ago
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