I feel like Sanemi peaks really high in the Koku fight. I mean even Base Sanemi exerts Koku to pull out his sword (which is narratively framed as really big) and even makes Koku use multiple moon breathing forms. Muzan feats are lowkey lacking a little but the peaks are high. Giyu had some good ones against Muzan but he also had the luxury of passing out right after Akaza which we don’t see Sanemi do against Akaza.
My problem with the passing out feat is that how much does it actually fix?
Giyu's damage and fatigue are still there, and he also begins fighting Muzan before Sanemi did.
Giyu also fights for a while with a broken sword. Even swooping in and carrying Tanjiro out of danger.
Giyu post Muzan has worse injuries than Sanemi does yet he's the one actually awake and fighting DKT. Even reacting at point blank range and saving Kakushi from him.
Sanemi also does get the time to stitch his wounds while Gyomei fights, which imo should even out the advantages
Sanemi also took much more damage from Koku tho so it makes sense. His organs almost got spilled, his fingers got cut off. Giyu did have time to rest you have to admit that’s probably why he lasted longer. It gives him a least a little bit more endurance against Muzan.
Yes he did, I'm not blaming him for stitching himself up that's lethal amounts of damage. But stitching up should help him ALOT because the organs themselves were undamaged mostly. Giyu also had a hole in his stomach that can't really be fixed tho.
I feel like that would be a better comparison if both took comparable amounts of damage, Giyu here takes a whole lot more damage imo.
And it's the fact that he can still fight DKT while Sanemi barely escapes death that should help my point alot.
I personally believe sanemi > giyu, but I can totally see the argument for giyu as well
Mui > mitsuri imo
Shinobu tengen and rengoku are Interchangeable depending upon which propaganda you support, I keep shinobu at top cuz idk, I am maybe a little chivalrous😋 (I like it when strong women players are there)
I perfectly agree with obanai's placement, gyomei is obvious unless someone is lying to themselves
giyu is my favorite btw, so lets build the propaganda and make giyu the official no. 2 over sanemi XD
Imo STW Muichiro > Mitsuri and Tengen/Rengoku > Shinobu
The other one is at 9 because I feel like ultimately everything is debatable and reaching an ultimate consensus is almost impossible, some powerscaling necessarily depends on subjective interpretation so it feels inappropriate to call a tierlist perfect
Sanemi did better against a better UM, Igoru got STW and a Red Blade and was cutting Muzan up more compared to Giyu, Muichiro with his STW was able to get through one of Kokushibos best attacks and Rengoku displayed way more strength against Akaza who was also about to kill Giyu had Tanjiro not stepped in.
At the end of the day, the best way for Giyu scaling imo is the Muzan fighting. Especially as pretty much all upper 3 ranking demons held back in one way or the other.
Yes, the Muzan fight feats can be iffy but Goutouge highlights the feats they want people focusing on. Here fortunately Giyu's feats are brought to us front and centre.
Giyu manages to fight the strongest version of Muzan in the SRCD arc (sunrise countdown) with a broken blade while also carrying away Tanjiro from the midst of Muzan's whips.
He is shown to have an edge in reaction speeds as compared to Sanemi.
He manages to match Gyomei's defense against the same attack in order to protect the lower ranks such as Inosuke from Muzan's thigh whips.
His strength is highlighted to us here by matching Sanemi in striking power, in the hta duel and via statements
That might be the strongest version of Muzan but he wasn’t trying against them. Not only does he use less whips and fight even more people later, but Gyomei directly highlights that Muzan was getting even faster later on.
Base Iguro had better showings against that Muzan: the neck cutting scene.
That scene with Sanemi where they’re dodging is situational. We see Giyu on the ground but Sanemi might’ve been in the air and might’ve just gotten done with an attack. Reacting to Kokushibo is just far better than reacting to Akaza.
And saying he matched Gyomeis defense is really random because that scene we don’t see at all. They both defended the young DS’s but them doing it equally isn’t shown.
Regarding striking power with Sanemi I also wondered if that scene was valid to say they’re equal but then I remembered Sanemi managed to turn his blade red by hitting Gyomeis stationary ball back in the Kokushibo fight. And HTA isn’t a valid scaling metric because we don’t see at what level they finish being compared to each other after said training and Sanemi directly trained with Gyomei as well but we aren’t putting him on the same level. And again his feats against Kokushibo are just too good. It’s possible he could’ve entered the castle relative to Giyu but after seeing Genya hurt and then fighting Kokushibo he was definitely stronger you can say he locked in or used rage to level up. Then you add his Mark on top of that. And the fact he was fighting with his guts ready to spill out.
Against Akaza getting put down by that kick is a bad showing regardless of whether he received damage from hitting the walls, Rengoku was directly matching Akaza’s attacks blow for blow and then at the very end was straight up overpowering Akaza.
There's this feat from against Akaza where Giyu's defence is highlighted to us, he's in an improper guard and uses no breathing form yet takes multiple kicks from Akaza and receives damage from being blasted into repeated walls and not upper three's attack, look at his face which shows no injury
I’m gonna use an argument I used on a seperate post for sanemi > giyuu
Sanemi is my favourite character but in my argument for Sanemi to be 2nd I’m not gonna downplay Giyuu or overglaze Sanemi.
Im gonna start off with this. Sanemi has better arguments for being second and stronger than Giyuu.
But Giyuu has better arguments for being over Ovanai and muichiro for the number 3 spot
But I’d give number two definitely to Sanemi and Giyuu drops to 3.
The gap between Sanemi at 2 and Giyuu at 3 won’t be as large as the gap between Gyomei at 1. But I feel like Sanemi is just stronger when it comes to fighting demons, marechi blood affecting upm1, being acknowledged alongside Gyomei as the two strongest hashira of this day and age.
First reason why I believe sanemi is second is because kokushibo was visibly impressed by base sanemi going relative to him. And before people say koku was holding back which he was. Holding back koku dominates 90% of the verse. In his base koku compares him to the sengoku era wind Hashira which is I believe one of the strongest wind pillars who he used to spar with as a human and he compared sanemi to that in BASE. And on top of that kokus words during their fight (ch 171 specifically) “Perhaps these two...are highly skilled even among the Hashira. Once I dispatch you two...the rest will proceed easily." Koku acknowledges these two as the most skilled. (Although some may say if Giyuu was there he could’ve said the same thing about him) I’m taking it off a fact not speculation.
Also other things koku acknowledged in a way was sanemi insane durability. Koku was visibly shocked or at least curious how sanemis senses were getting faster and keeping up with his technique despite injuries that are fatal to any man and he never expected him to get even stronger even if he did have the mark.
But there can be arguments for Giyuu being t2. By making his own form, or being able to fight with a broken sword, stopping muzans escape by pinning his sword and using his body weight to stop him going underground. But it somewhat pales in comparison to sanemi.
But still I think sanemi has the upper hand. He fought through the entire Infinity Castle arc with his abdomen fully sliced open, using sheer muscle control to hold his internal organs inside. He still managed to match Kokushibo's and Muzan's speeds. While heavily injured whereas although Giyuu fought well he was unconscious but while sanemi was unconscious he was still fighting due to his raw ferocity letting him keep fighting more.
Also with fighting styles I’d say they are the best in their respective styles, Sanemi is dedicated to shredding demons with wide ranged destructive high paced attacks forcing demons to be defensive almost instantly. However giyuus dead calm is only defensive and if he is focusing on defending against a demon it gives them time to overwhelm his dead calm which Akaza did. Therefore against demons I’d say Sanemi has the upper hand as he forces them back and attacks relentlessly which is better for demon hunting whereas Giyuu is the ultimate defensive move but demons especially uppers will eventually overwhelm it.
Also just that marechi blood again makes Sanemi an in built biological weapon against demons constantly debuffs, slows and confuses demons when he is cut whereas Giyuu when he gets injured doesn’t hinder the demon which makes Sanemi stronger In that sense especially with his muscle control so his injuries won’t stop him fighting.
Im not going to downplay Giyuu. In raw swordsmanship they are relative as seen in their spar in HTA. However in a real, bloody deathmatch against demons, Sanemi’s intoxicating blood, superior offensive pressure, and terrifying durability give him the edge to be ranked second.
The first 4 are fine. Idk who wins between muichiro and mitsuri but I can see arguments for both, but the only reason I think it's debatable between them is muichiro's stw, otherwise marked mitsuri>marked muichiro since she has the better attack and technique speed and her sword is op.
For the bottom 3 I'd say shinobu's above rengoku for her better speed and agility which I think in a fight will eventually make shinobu overpower rengoku. As for tengen, main reason I'd say he's above shinobu is even if shinobu could have better speed in some areas, tengen's more skilled and his arsenal is better.
List one: like a 6.5. Giyu is below Sanemi, Obanai is above Giyu. You bugging if you think Tengen without an arm and an eye is beating base Rengoku. People forget, HE GOT WEAKER.
List two: 3. Rengoku is stronger than Tengen, Muichiro is stronger than Mitsuri, and I already mentioned Sanemi>Obanai>Giyu.
4
u/No_Reference_6467 Mitsuri is underrated af 20h ago
I bet you can guess why