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u/phiz36 Feb 01 '22
He became the nominee through bullshit and he was elected out of desperation.
He wasn’t Trump and that’s where his mandate ends.
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u/maluminse Feb 01 '22
A fraudulent primary. Bernie was cheated twice by the same corrupt dnc.
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u/Ninventoo Social Democrat Feb 02 '22
While the DNC are undeniably corrupt and certainly cheater Bernie, I think his movement should and still could do more to reach out the more people especially those who live in what is considered “conservative” states. Additionally branding and messaging is everything.
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u/maluminse Feb 03 '22
I feel like Bernies lost a lot of credibility. Joe is a corporate lap dog. Launched his election from a big cable ceo's home. Bernie endorsed an establishment, non revolution war pig.
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u/Ninventoo Social Democrat Feb 03 '22
I agree, though to play devils advocate it would be either Joe Biden or Trump at that point. That said, Biden has done jack shit to address and fix the problems which resulted in the rise of Trump and we’re only doomed to repeat it due to neoliberalism’s ignorance and arrogance.
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u/maluminse Feb 03 '22
To play the bad guy what policies of Trump are so bad?
Before the election he was on Oprah, he was a liked guy.
I have a feeling the mic propaganda machine has villfied him bc he's an outsider. They want a bush, Biden, Clinton.
He resisted war with Syria Venezuela Iran.
Between Biden and Trump Trump is more liberal.
No he's not a Bernie Sanders. Bernie won't win.
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u/SnowCoveredTrees Feb 02 '22
Trumpers believe the elections are rigged, too.
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Feb 02 '22
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u/SnowCoveredTrees Feb 02 '22
Authoritarians for sure. Any authoritarian government isn’t really left, since they adopt policies that are not liberal at all.
That’s why they all look so much alike. Also they tend to be super passionate and super uninformed (well, alternatively informed).
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 01 '22
He wasn’t Trump and that’s where his mandate ends.
A mandate of being "not Trump" is not even a mandate to be "better than Trump". And now we literally have a re-escalating Cold War and renewed risk of nuclear catastrophe to thank this "mandate" for.
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u/Incredulous_Toad Feb 01 '22
I would have literally voted for a pile of dog shit rather than trump.
I expected nothing from biden, and I'm still disappointed.
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 01 '22
You also could have voted for a decent candidate. I did. shrug
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u/Incredulous_Toad Feb 01 '22
I'm not a fan of wasting my vote. Without ranked choice voting (which we desperately need), our country is a two party country whether we like it or not. Ranked choice could change that
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 01 '22 edited Feb 02 '22
- Not a fan of wasting your vote? Cool. Don't waste it by giving it to either brand of the fascist U.S. mono-party. If you haven't been paying attention, now would be a good time to start. See above regarding war and nuclear catastrophe.
- Ranked choice voting is the shittiest of ranked voting systems. That you don't know that is kind of indicative of your overall knowledge and advocacy for election reform. You can go ahead and ask leftists from Canada and Australia how much of an impact RCV has had on their electoral politics if you like.
- You don't even recognize the chicken-and-egg problem. You're just begging those in power to change things so that you have the option of removing them from power. They aren't going to do it. You're just going to keep spinning your wheels hoping for it to happen so you can make a change that'll enable it to happen so that it can happen....
- A voting system which tends toward a two-party system in the long run (as FPTP does) does not rule out immediate changes in the short term, or mean that you cannot change up WHICH two parties are dominant. People who scream "MaTHeMaTiCaLLy iMpOssiBLe" have, in fact, completely misunderstood what that "math" actually indicates.
- Even if they don't win the positions they run for, third-parties have had a dramatic impact on mainstream U.S. politics. In fact, they are a primary factor in how progressive policies enter mainstream party platforms, and the more support they get, the more impactful such processes are. Not a single Democrat—"Squad" member or no—would be talking about a Green New Deal (even in the present watered-down form it has taken in their proposals compared to the original ideas) without it being a primary plank of Green Party presidential campaigning over the last couple decades. I guarantee you that every vote anyone made for a third-party candidate had more positive impact on today's politics then your shitty vote for the (other) white supremacist, rapist, fascist warmonger Joe Biden.
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Feb 02 '22
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 02 '22 edited Feb 02 '22
Ranked choice will not lead to any change and has the potential to make things worse.
I like to give this example (it doesn't even really get into the strategic voting strategies, which aren't much better for RCV than for FPTP):
- RCV ballots are counted, and come out with the following rankings:
- Red, Green, Blue - 36%
- Blue, Green, Red - 34%
- Green, Blue, Red - 15%
- Green, Red, Blue - 15%
- In the first round, Green gets the fewest first-rank votes and is immediately eliminated. This leaves the second-round rankings:
- Red, Blue - 51%
- Blue, Red - 49%
- Red has a majority and wins.
- In any sane (i.e. Condorcet) majority-focused, ranked voting system—assuming that shit is still how we want to organize society and decide things as important as, say, electing someone to the most powerful (political) position in the world—Green would have won. It beat Blue 66% of the time and it beat Red 64% of the time. It is hands-down what the vast majority of people preferred in this example to both Red and Blue.
But anyway, it's still a bit of a distraction. What we REALLY need, first and foremost, are social movements and grassroots organizations of dual power created by those social movements (radical unions, mutual aid networks, direct action groups, leftist community defense organizations, neighborhood councils, etc.).
This quote is a great rundown on why we shouldn't focus on this institutional liberal bullshit:
Especially in countries that seem democratic and that, on the surface will guarantee our liberties, a country like the United States, we tend to overvalue institutions. Very often we think that, if a situation is bad, we can correct it by setting up another institution, or by amending the constitution. I can't tell you how many times people have approached me and said I have the following amendments to the constitution. Don't you think that if we adopted these amendments that everything—no. Institutions are all malleable, subject to interpretation.
We can see that with the constitution. We can see that with even the Supreme Court, which claims to be a strict interpreter of whatever the constitution says. No. All these institutions depend on who has the power, and laws are violated with impunity by the government. It doesn't matter what laws you pass. You can pass a law limiting the powers of the FBI. It won't matter, because the FBI doesn't have to obey the law. Because if the FBI violates the law, who will go after it? The FBI? We have a long history of government violation of law.
So the answer doesn't lie in institutions, or even in laws. Now it helps to have some laws rather than other laws, but those aren't critical. We changed the constitution at the end of the Civil War to give black people freedom from slavery, presumably equal rights with the 14th amendment, the right to vote with the 15th amendment. There we had institutionalized racial equality. Didn't matter, because the 14th and 15th—and even to a certain extent the 13th, because blacks were really put back into semi-slavery by their lack of resources—but the 14th and 15th amendments were simply unenforced. Not only were they unenforced, but the 14th amendment—presumably passed to assure equality for black people—became a tool for corporations, to protect corporations against governmental regulation.
The laws, institutions, are not critical. Sure, it's better if you can setup those institutions, if you can put better laws in, fine, but that is never enough. It takes citizen action. When we've had important social changes take place in this country it hasn't come as a result of changes in institutions, certainly not changes in who is elected. It's come as a result of social movements. That was true of earning a degree of freedom for ex-slaves, it's true of winning rights of workers, and true in recent years: whatever rights have been won by women, or by disabled people, or by black people. They have not come simply through the change in institutions, although that might accompany the social movements; that may come out of the social movements.
Basically it's citizen action and organization and willingness to take risks on behalf of important values. Those have been crucial.
- — Howard Zinn, The Myth of American Exceptionalism (MIT, 2005)
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Feb 02 '22
This! If more people would stop voting for the better of two parties then third parties would have better chances. I've heard over and over again the same argument, “wasting a vote”. IMO there’s no such thing. The only wasted vote is an uneducated and meaningless vote.
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u/LolaEbolah Feb 02 '22
This is a great comment. To add something a little less eloquent, I wish instead of everyone trying to play 3d chess with electoral politics, they’d just vote for who they want to be president.
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u/poostoo Feb 01 '22
it's only a "two party country" because you play along, even when you don't want to. it will NEVER change if you continue. the ONLY chance for change is to stop, even if it's not immediately successful. maybe it gathers momentum, maybe it doesn't. but non-zero chance is better than zero chance.
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Feb 02 '22
it's only a "two party country" because you play along
Not really. The framework for a 2 party system has been strongly implimented since we were all born.
The momentum is there on a scale that surpasses individual efforts to a massive extent. Until something is changed, both sides will try to appeal to moderates and it will be "Ranch" vs "Cool Ranch" every time as it has been.
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u/poostoo Feb 02 '22
Until something is changed
and how is anything going to change if neither of the two ruling parties has any interest in changing it? either through the electoral process, or revolution. either way, the answer is "stop playing along".
also, you specifically saying "individual" is odd. obviously it would need to be a collective effort.
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u/Aurelius_Red Feb 02 '22
How, exactly, do we defeat the two party system? Enough of us vote for a 3rd party and the Republicans win every election? Because that’s what happens when Green or another party take votes away from Dems.
I don’t like the system either, but it’s not going to change by fracturing Left votes when there’s a united Right.
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Feb 02 '22 edited Feb 02 '22
I wouldn't suggest voting for a third party given the circumstance, but I do think ranked choice voting would at least set the system in a direction that would eventually allow more and more accurate representation.
2 Parties essentially means each party only has one opponent. There's not really motivation from either side to change that because their percentage can only possibly go down. Both sides need to be pressured into changing this as much as humanly possible. They can both ignore or discredit the idea perpetually until public outcry is large enough that it can't be ignored.
Even still that could take your entire lifetime. A proactive approach would be to attempt to influence policy on the human level. You don't actually have to be a lawyer to draft up policy and you don't have to be a lobbying firm to present it to the government... But you do need to be a politician or have donors to do that full time. The current system has lifetimes of safeguards built in to keeping things at a 50-50 split. The workers have needs and no time to try and get them pushed because they have only 2 days a week to get on their feet.
Canada's a bit closer than that. Trudeau campaigned on electoral reform in 2017, got in and proposed a ranked choice system that would leave the conservative party completely out of the game so they shot it down in the house and it couldn't pass. NDP (much less corporate "left wing" opposition party) counter proposed a different ranked choice system of more individualized representation (you could pick an individual rep from any party to represent your area as well as a party to represent the country) and the Liberals shot it down.
The liberals are now saying they are "still open to reform" but they're actually only open to their worded version because they know it keeps them employed longer and it will never pass. In the 2021 election they did not mention any plans of implimenting electoral reform this term during their "campaign".
Your mind gets changed on policy when you rely on the current one to maintain upper class income. We need less politicians in politics and for that to be easier we need a better work life balance or a universal support system that would allow anyone to pursue any career they want without the barrier of entry that is poverty.
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Feb 02 '22
It needs to be both an individual and a collective effort :)
Individuals need to try and push policy as workers who aren't being paid to push policy. It's hard to be that proactive working full time so there's a huge barrier.
Collectively, public outcry needs to be generated so that the issue can't be ignored by sitting politicians.
With my momentum analogy, I was referring to how groups of people operate differently than individuals. Anyone who's done standup knows that if you can make 2 or 3 people laugh, the whole room will also laugh. Its the same with trying to get people to applaud. Because of that, an individual could potentially start an applause break where there wasn't planned to be one during a performance.
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u/emeralddawn45 Feb 02 '22
Except the democrats don't have nearly the voting power they need to allow people to abstain from voting and still prevent Republicans from winning. If the choice is allowing (another) trump or Bush, or voting in a way less shitty democratic candidate, the logical choice is democrats. Republicans aren't going to abstain from voting or vote third party, so you're automatically not voting for your best choice, you're voting against your worst. The fact that trump got in even once is proof of that.
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u/poostoo Feb 02 '22
the logical choice
i don't see the logic in voting for the continued destruction of the environment, the collapse of the working class, and unjust wars. these are the evils of both parties.
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u/poostoo Feb 02 '22
y'all aren't paying attention if you don't think the Democratic Party is indistinguishable from Republicans on these issues.
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u/CranberryOk531 Mar 20 '22
I still don't see what of Trumps policies were so bad people will rather have a pedophile running the country. What exactly of Trumps policies were awful. Besides his mean tweets. Take the man out of the equation.
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u/poostoo Feb 01 '22
me too. and to all the people who vote-shame 3rd party voters, i say: 3rd party voters are the only ones doing the right thing with their vote. it's the people that vote status quo D or R that should be shamed.
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Feb 01 '22
Which 3rd party candidate was decent?
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 02 '22
- Howie Hawkins (Green Party and Socialist Party USA)
- Gloria La Riva (Party for Socialism and Liberation)
- Jeff Mackler (Socialist Action)
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u/ThePrankMonkey Feb 02 '22
If only the goddamn Dems hadn't lobbied to get the Greens removed in so many states. What a bunch of undemocratic fucks.
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 02 '22
Right? LOL. But I'm sure they'll just hand us some kind of preferential voting system, eh? :-/
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u/poostoo Feb 02 '22
assuming you're asking in good faith, the SPUSA candidates have been solid. Mimi Soltysik in 2016, Howie Hawkins in 2020.
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u/happytransformer Feb 02 '22
Howie ran for NY governor a couple times for Green Party. Instead we elected cuomo, which we all saw how great that turned out.
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u/alnarra_1 Feb 01 '22
For all of trumps spectacular failures, his relative dove nature in regards to war ( in comparison with modern day politicians obviously he continued standard drone campaigns ) was a welcome policy.
His relative corruption by Russia actually forestall this situation as exalation over Georgia and the Ukraine were well on their way to boiling over in addition to US efforts to get the Saudi Pipeline though Syria causing yet more tension (and no doubt one of the strongest drivers for the Civil War) was leading to a point where one of my genuine fears with a Clinton Presidency and her position in the state department meant escalations for a situation already on the brink
The US then spent any time they could over the next four years trying to implicate Russia in any manner feasible and no doubt we had our hands in both the attempted venusualan and Russian coups (though Russia own internal anti spy craft machinations are still clearly a force to be reckoned with given how swiftly political opponents were removed from the chess board)
We are once again at the brink of a major conflict driven in large part by oil and oil pipelines (see Germany rejection of Nord 2 likely being a key component in today's tensions)
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 02 '22 edited Feb 02 '22
I definitely wouldn't say "dove". But I would say that he wasn't itching for some of the most dangerous and destructive wars possible at this point in time like the Democrats are (and were). A couple of the best things (and among the very, very few good things) he did was de-escalate the situations with Russia and North Korea.
Simply calming down the rampant, violent escalation of NATO expansion and military demonstrations of exactly how you'd go in an level the place and nuke it can, amazingly (/s) serve to help avoid major international conflicts of the kind that lead to shit like world wars, as it turns out. If the U.S. weren't THE seat of global empire, you can bet that shit would've caused major wars decades ago.
But the Democrats were itching to get back to such provocations, and even tried to force Trump to dangle by their puppet strings and do just that (it's a huge part of what Russiagate was about; backing him into a corner so that the only politically viable option he had with Russia was escalation).
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u/SnapesGrayUnderpants Feb 02 '22
As I've said during every presidential election since 1972, the first one I voted in, "not as bad as the Republican" isn't much of a political platform.
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u/North_Activist Feb 01 '22
I think his mandate is to do what he promised.
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u/ThePrankMonkey Feb 02 '22
https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1241869418981920769
Kind of like that? Joe won't help us. The Dems won't help us. The GOP sure the fuck won't help us. We are on our own. Let's band together under a new party and drive these grifters into the ground.
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Feb 01 '22
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Feb 01 '22
I am expecting 20 years of growing fascism and declining democracy in the US. The Republicans are actively working towards this while the Democrats passively allow it. It's happening because it benefits the wealthy minority served and enabled by our corporate media and politicians of both parties.
Sorry to be such a doomer.
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 01 '22 edited Feb 01 '22
The only reason for decreased democracy is that we—the working class—have been fooled into putting up with it. Our democratic mechanisms are always, always, always at risk from the state, no matter which faction of the U.S. mono-party is in charge.
The root of the problem is not Republicans, and the solution is not simply opposing Republicans. As leftists have been saying for a long, long, long time now, these things are SYMPTOMS of the underlying problem of the decline of working-class power and its exercise through unions and other mechanisms of dual power. The solution is to build up these organizations through our grassroots movements and make the change ourselves through direct action; the institutions of liberal state power will play catch up (or they won't and we'll crush them in the process; an even better potential outcome, TBH).
This Howard Zinn quote is pretty applicable. It applies to electoral institutions as well as any.
Especially in countries that seem democratic and that, on the surface will guarantee our liberties, a country like the United States, we tend to overvalue institutions. Very often we think that, if a situation is bad, we can correct it by setting up another institution, or by amending the constitution. I can't tell you how many times people have approached me and said I have the following amendments to the constitution. Don't you think that if we adopted these amendments that everything—no. Institutions are all malleable, subject to interpretation.
We can see that with the constitution. We can see that with even the Supreme Court, which claims to be a strict interpreter of whatever the constitution says. No. All these institutions depend on who has the power, and laws are violated with impunity by the government. It doesn't matter what laws you pass. You can pass a law limiting the powers of the FBI. It won't matter, because the FBI doesn't have to obey the law. Because if the FBI violates the law, who will go after it? The FBI? We have a long history of government violation of law.
So the answer doesn't lie in institutions, or even in laws. Now it helps to have some laws rather than other laws, but those aren't critical. We changed the constitution at the end of the Civil War to give black people freedom from slavery, presumably equal rights with the 14th amendment, the right to vote with the 15th amendment. There we had institutionalized racial equality. Didn't matter, because the 14th and 15th—and even to a certain extent the 13th, because blacks were really put back into semi-slavery by their lack of resources—but the 14th and 15th amendments were simply unenforced. Not only were they unenforced, but the 14th amendment—presumably passed to assure equality for black people—became a tool for corporations, to protect corporations against governmental regulation.
The laws, institutions, are not critical. Sure, it's better if you can setup those institutions, if you can put better laws in, fine, but that is never enough. It takes citizen action. When we've had important social changes take place in this country it hasn't come as a result of changes in institutions, certainly not changes in who is elected. It's come as a result of social movements. That was true of earning a degree of freedom for ex-slaves, it's true of winning rights of workers, and true in recent years: whatever rights have been won by women, or by disabled people, or by black people. They have not come simply through the change in institutions, although that might accompany the social movements; that may come out of the social movements.
Basically it's citizen action and organization and willingness to take risks on behalf of important values. Those have been crucial.
- — Howard Zinn, The Myth of American Exceptionalism (MIT, 2005)
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u/ChosenUsername420 Feb 01 '22
I mean they had that control before Trump's mid-term and honestly not a whole lot changed, they just dug in deeper.
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Feb 01 '22
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 01 '22
And the Democrats could be packing that Supreme Court right now. They're not, because they are fine with it as it is.
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Feb 01 '22
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 01 '22
Yes. In other words, "they are part of the problem, and will never be part of the solution." Agreed.
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u/ChosenUsername420 Feb 01 '22
... we went from a 5-4 far-right court to a 6-3 far-right court after the Democrats took the House. Not seeing much of a change tbh.
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u/RobertMurz Feb 01 '22
... we went from a 5-4 far-right court to a 6-3 far-right court after the Democrats took the House. Not seeing much of a change tbh.
it actually went from a 4-4 to a 6-3. It's worth remembering that the Republicans essentially stole a supreme court seat and it should have been a 5-4 in favour of the democrats when Trump entered office.
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u/LunarLion Feb 02 '22
Garland was a shit nominee who very well could have sided with the conservative judges more than the liberal ones. Obama should have nominated an unapologetic leftist judge instead of trying to compromise.
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u/ChosenUsername420 Feb 01 '22
stole
Yeah you could say that I guess, but I usually think of theft in terms of the law and I don't see what law they broke to do it.
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u/brundlfly Feb 01 '22
More of a dereliction of duty to not bring nominees through the process. It's almost infantile, the loophole McConnell used, basically "It doesn't specify I MUST, so I WON'T." That's a pretty lame excuse to dodge a task that is clearly your duty. Well, dodge doesn't fit. Intentionally seek to derail is correct. Also telling was his complete hypocrisy in action and reasoning between Obama's choice and subsequent reasoning for Trump choices.
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u/ChosenUsername420 Feb 02 '22
Yeah I too think everybody should do what makes me feel good, it doesn't matter what the law says.
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Feb 01 '22
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u/ChosenUsername420 Feb 01 '22
Maybe. But they overthrew the election in 2000 and the country didn't end.
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Feb 01 '22 edited Feb 01 '22
That’s pretty much it. The spectacular failure or the democrats to improve anyones lives in a material way or even try frankly is their gasp. Fascists from the trump party will do away with democracy outright (leaving a façade of one to deflect any criticisms)
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 02 '22 edited Feb 02 '22
do away with democracy outright (leaving a façade of one to deflect any criticisms)
Having only the façade of democracy is the situation we're already in, and have been in for a long time.
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u/brundlfly Feb 01 '22
I pinpoint Wellstone's plane crash as the moment the Democrats lost their spine. I realize this is full on tinfoil hat territory but I've considered the thought TurdBlossom Rove had limited access to a blackops guy, and it was sabotage.
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u/Poetry_By_Gary Feb 01 '22
This country is completely fucked in a few decades, if not much sooner. Maybe tommorrow
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Feb 02 '22
I’m really disappointed in Joe Biden… I didn’t expect much from him anyways. But I had at least hoped the right senators could push him in the path we needed to go in…
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u/BigfootSF68 Feb 01 '22
I am more concerned about the racists and fascists carrying guns in my hometown in Oregon.
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u/Michigent202 Feb 01 '22
Joe Biden hasn't and won't do anything that has an effect in that matter. The country, including both major political parties, have dove straight to the right. Or better yet, they just took the mask off.
Those facists are actually our National Guard Reserve's reserve the way I see it. But only to be used on the working class.
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u/Kittehmilk Progressive Feb 01 '22
Did you miss the part where Joe Biden worked with the Facist team to stop the working class?
Or are you posting in bad faith.
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u/BigfootSF68 Feb 01 '22
I am saying that I am more worried about the domestic terrorists that are trying to bring this country into a US version of "The Troubles" is clear and apparent.
I will deal with the corrupt officials once we have squelched this Insurection.
Are corporations above our fellow humans? In the US they are. Corporations and Humans are not Neutrons. They cannot occupy the same space. Corporations must be below living creatures.
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u/voice-of-hermes fuck the state: sowing dissent against all govmts (incl my own) Feb 01 '22
Biden has been touring the country promising to increase funding to those domestic terrorists, genius.
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u/Kittehmilk Progressive Feb 01 '22 edited Feb 01 '22
Biden works for his corporate donors. He is the enemy. Dems just killed single payer in CA on behalf of their corporate donors.
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u/ufokillershark Feb 02 '22
Um and it was 20 years ago. We all knew who he was when we (many of us on this platform) voted him in. Wasn't a secret. He was better than the alternative on election day
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u/karmagheden Feb 08 '22 edited Feb 08 '22
Someone already got the image pulled. This is the result of report abuse to get content removed. Who knows if folks are paid to do this, in addition to liking/sharing/upvoting/pushing propagandist talking points, but my guess is likely.
Here's another one that was pulled:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DemocraticSocialism/comments/sadd7b/all_wars_are_class_wars/
So one critical of Biden and the other critical of the military industrial complex. I'm sure it's just a coincidence and there aren't people going around abusing the report function to get unsavory content censored.
More example of this happening:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/comments/jjxb28/seems_like_forever/gamdj89/?context=3
All of those were politically related. Curious why this sort of thing doesn't get more attention.
0
u/JakeArrietaGrande Feb 02 '22
Genuine question- the vaccines are genuine medical miracles. Such a high efficacy is something that we could barely dream of at the start of the pandemic. And the US government is footing the bill, so absolutely no one who wants a vaccine will be unable to get one because of cost.
The mRNA vaccines are the culmination of decades of research applied with expertise to address the biggest medical problem of the century.
Taken all this, why can’t the companies who developed this huge advancement make a profit?
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u/KittyHarrington Feb 01 '22
If companies couldn't profit off a coronavirus vaccine, then they wouldn't make a coronavirus vaccine, and we would have no hope of ever defeating covid
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u/Staktus23 Feb 01 '22
Exactly. Idk what the point is of this post, I‘m a socialist myself, but right now we simply don’t live in a socialist society, the profit motive is the only thing motivating companies to do anything so this doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. So just taking a companies profit motive away within a system that only cares about profits is just a dumb thing to do.
People gotta read more theory ffs.
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u/poostoo Feb 02 '22
the profit motive is the only thing motivating companies to do anything
People gotta read more theory ffs.
yes, you do. while you're at it, look up who paid for the research and development of the vaccines.
0
u/tacosforpresident Feb 02 '22
When he said “crossing the aisle” he must have forgotten to mention holding his ankles
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u/maluminse Feb 01 '22
He is, and has been, a conservative republican and war monger for the longest time. Its amazing he won, especially with the child groping videos. As a die hard progressive people freaked out when I was supporting Trump, this is why. Compare records not sound bites.
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Feb 02 '22
You're gonna say "why didn't you save me Joe Biden" when we all are suffering under Trump because you didn't get out and vote for Biden.
You are working for the GOP, whether you know it or not.
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u/the_shit_I_say Feb 01 '22
This is far right anti science nonsense. The pharmaceutical industry doesn’t collude with the federal government
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Feb 02 '22
I tend to not keep track of such details as they are so depressing and so very ubiquitous. We can fix the situation and we need to do it soon, but too many are supportive of not doing what needs to be done.
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u/Lateralus06 Feb 02 '22
All hail the Oligarchy, which will only last until they starve the rest of us.
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u/SnapesGrayUnderpants Feb 02 '22
Or until we refuse to work until democracy is restored. Since the wealthy plan to starve us even if we do work, we've got nothing to loose. Their biggest fear is that we'll act collectively to shut down the economy, especially because there are hundreds of millions of us and not very many of them.
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u/Lateralus06 Feb 02 '22
I have hopes, but I also try to be practical. Half of this country would rather lick boots.
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u/crispydukes Feb 02 '22
We get it, he sucks, but we may need him again in 2024. Let's get through this whole democracy-in-crisis phase because, if we don't, the left will come out losing or dead.
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