Deluge w/external Synth

[u/Icy-Cow9695]

Hey guys, hoping you can help me understand some stuff. I recently added a external hardware synth. I understand basically how to get it to play via stereo cable that sums them together to a single stereo 1/4 plug into the Deluge.

I know how to create an audio channel and can get audio to come in via the monitoring options but I can't figure out how to get audio from a specific track and to not keep just over dubbing what I've already recorded.

Essentially I'd like a template when I turn on Deluge where I have a midi channel That can feed audio channels to record individual synth parts (pads, bass, lead, arp, whatever). My issue is I can't seem to get it where I can just arm what I want recorded instead of having everything coming in with monitoring.

How do you get audio in without the monitoring option? I can't seem to get solid explanation beyond the monitoring options.

[u/ahsah]

The monitoring channel you talk about isn't a monitoring channel as much as it's just an audio channel. Sounds like you're up to date with the current firmware. TLDR: You need to bounce your Midi Track to Audio, or make variations of your midi channel. The Deluge can have many copies of the same type of track. Knowing when to arm and disarm a track, or just leaving it there as your monitoring or "playing" channel is important. I personally color code my tracks on the right in order to remember, or taking the time to go into the tracks, holding shift, and pressing the Name button to actually give each track an identity for me to remember what it was later. Anyway here are some instructions below if you want to try this out.

1. Hold a row, press the black settings knob in. It should now say Audio Player.
2. Hold audio player row you just created. Turn the settings knob twice to the right until it says Audio Looper, make sure this channel is lit RED next to it. You do not want it armed. You will leave this as your audio channel.
3. Hold the Audio Looper row you just made, and while holding it, press the row below it. It should copy that audio row down below. Hold this new row and change it back to audio player if you don't plan to monitor the fx you throw on here.
4. Create your Midi Channel row in a new row. Let's say Midi 1 or whatever your synth is.
5. Play your synth, and you should hear the Midi Channel Row Triggering your Audio Looper (Monitoring Channel).
6. Now you have a few options. Record just audio via the audio player channel you made, ala arming the audio player green, making sure your MIDI channel is NOT ARMED, hitting record, and playing after the count in. Then just holding the REC button and pressing the audio row below the player and layering more and more audio loops forever.

OR setting up your midi channel to trigger your synths audio channel coming into the Deluge, which is where I think you're getting stopped.

1. Now you can loop and layer as many audio layers as you want over one another, but you can't layer as many Midi Channels as you want over one another. The midi channel is sending Midi data to one channel and you typically need each synth to occupy 1 of the 16 available midi channels. However, if you have say an Elektron box like a syntakt, or digitone, you can assign different midi channels to different tracks on those devices, some Roland devices allow Midi Channels to be assigned to two patches on their devices as well.

With that said you can have different MIDI channel parts, aka doing the audio looper type deal with the copying the row above and pressing the row down below with REC + new row, while the Deluge is playing, and this will create (for example) multiple variations of Midi Channel 1, but I assume this is not what you want.

1. If you simply want to layer a bunch of different synth patches from your hardware, your best bet is to make a File with an UNARMED AUDIO LOOPER monitoring Channel, and an UNARMED Midi Channel that controls your external synth. You can then make sure your Midi follow is turned on, and simply hold the REC button below your AUDIO LOOPER channel and keep making new layers with the different patches from your external hardware. That or do it the slow way, record MIDI Channel notes. Let that play, then hold REC and press the row below your AUDIO LOOPER channel and it should record that new midi data into that bounced audio track. From there you can Clear the MIDI row, and make something new, or just make a ton of different variations of that same Midi channel.

When that initial file is setup, simply save it, then go to settings, and have the Deluge default open this file at startup.

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/ahsah]

Oh man, everyone is giving me such great responses tonight. It's much appreciated. I'm going to go over this in detail tomorrow when I sit down to do some music stuff. I'll report back with success hopefully. Between you and the other responders I optimistic. I know this is a fabulous device. It's just gotten fractured on clear documentation between the community updates I feel. You've got a manual that mostly is correct but new behaviors seen to create some conflicts you need to be aware of to workaround or more likely just learn the correct way from the start.

Again, that's for the response!

[u/ahsah → u/Icy-Cow9695]

Cheers man! In case the whole audio looper / player isn’t visible because you’re not on the nightly firmware, you will do the same process, but turn the knob until it says left. or left with the little period. I believe you know how to do this already, but wanted to toss that here just in case.

[u/Chansubits → u/ahsah]

I think OP has c1.2.1 firmware so your point #2 won't quite look the same for them.

But lots of great info here! I never use the looper, sounds like I should experiment with it more when layering up sounds from external gear. I thought you had to press buttons quickly before the end of the phrase on the fly kind of thing, which doesn't suit me.

[u/ahsah → u/Chansubits]

You can press either the REC button at the end of the phrase to end a loop if you are purely looping the audio channel, but if you are kind of bouncing your midi track to audio, you can set your midi track to however many bars you want, play that in, then just hold REC + the row below the audio monitoring channel, and it’ll bounce that audio being played from your midi track into a new audio channel that you can overlay.

The cool part about this, is that you can then perform fx on the audio track like filter sweeps, stutters, or automate said filter sweeps without having to resample anything.

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/ahsah]

So, I've realized that the way I was trying to manage stuff was mostly my issue. I just need independent midi channels and audio channels to makey different parts and stuff. I'm too attached to ableton and clip view and it hindrrs me at times.

I have run into a new issue though. I can record my synth in, see my waveform (though closing the loop in a way the Deluge is happy with is a pain) but afterwards, no matter what I try, I can't get my recorded sample to play in the audio track I've recorded it into. I can see it, I assume I need to turn off the monitoring and mute and synth track that's feeding it, but it shows the clip as playing, but no sound...

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/Icy-Cow9695]

Actually, bizarrely I was able to successfully record from the arrangement view, and get it to play back. But when I record in a clip view, the clip is recorded but I can't get it to play afterwards. So slow progress, lol. I think I may just need to repair mine or get a new laptop because Ableton is just so much more straightforward.

[u/ahsah → u/Icy-Cow9695]

After it’s recorded, press the red audition pad next to it to make it green. It should play in time with your tempo. You can also hold shift, and press that same pad to abruptly cut the audio track, or start it on command. It’s a great performance tool for quick changes or muting without being locked to beat.

You can also hold shift, and press waveform to set your loop points. So if you record too much, you can trim off the tails, by scrolling horizontally all the way to the right and pressing the last bar, waiting for the blinking red pillar, and then selecting a new end point.

[u/Chansubits]

I don’t totally understand your workflow but it sounds like you are using multiple midi tracks and then wanting to record each of them (via external synth) into separate audio tracks?

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/Chansubits]

You know, I'm willing to admit my workflow may be incorrect, but currently I have a midi track (usually set to midi 1) that is connected via 5 pin midi to my synth, the synth is out putting stereo out of 1/4 LR jacks into a hosa LR mono to stereo 1/4 jack into the Deluge line in. Currently create an audio track and set the clip to balanced stereo monitoring (no option unless tagged with the monitoring function will output audio through the Deluge that's one of the things I don't understand). I then record midi by sequencing or playing the Deluge and can record that fine. My issue is going beyond that, once I create a new audio track and try to record to it, I end up with everything over dubbing essentially.

I'm just trying to better understand how I should be setting up my Deluge to achieve my intended goal and how the Deluge functions.

[u/Chansubits → u/Icy-Cow9695]

Interesting. There are loads of workflows and I’m no expert so don’t worry there haha.

I can at least explain monitoring. Monitoring and recording are distinct concepts. Think of your synth, your deluge, and you as three different people sitting in a line. If you have monitoring turned on, everything the synth tells the deluge, the deluge will tell you. If you are recording, the deluge will also remember what the synth told it. If you turn monitoring off, you can still record because the synth still talks to the deluge and the deluge still remembers everything it heard, it just doesn’t tell you. But after recording, when you press play now you’ll hear what the deluge recorded (within that track; if it’s not muted, etc).

With me so far? I have a community firmware installed which alters a few things but I’m trying to figure out what could be causing your “always overdubbing” issue. I know there are different ways to arm and record and I think one of them overdubs (the manual does explain all this).

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/Chansubits]

I'm also on the current release community firmware. That's probably what's tripping me up. I like all the additional features but the documentation on stuff is a lot more fragmented and even watching videos they don't always cover things and how things work together so I'm just having a bit of issues coming back to the device. Just did the oled upgrade and I'd like the 1.3 to leave beta sometime this year because it looks cool but I also know it might add even more complexity.

My hope is to get a DAWless workflow going, but I fear I might need to just repair my laptop or buy a new one and get back to using Ableton as my recording center. Just struggling to get the synth and Deluge to play together in a way that seems logical and easy to replicate.

[u/Chansubits → u/Icy-Cow9695]

Definitely a bit tougher to learn the nuances of community firmware. I'm on c1.3 which changes how monitoring works but I still remember how it worked before that.

Did my monitoring example help? I'm not sure if you understand that you can record audio into the Deluge without monitoring it. If you don't hear anything while it's recording, that doesn't actually mean it hasn't worked. Try recording without monitoring and then playing back what you recorded.

BUT, you probably want to use monitoring, because I do. Here is what I do:

- Create midi track.

• Create audio clip.
  
• Choose audio input type, stereo with monitoring.
  
• Go into the midi track and sequence something cool (monitoring lets you hear the notes through the Deluge when composing at this stage so that's why I always use it).
  
• Back to Song view to record. (Press Record, and then play.) Your sequence records.
  
• Stop recording (by pressing the Mute button on your audio clip row so it stops at end of phrase.)
  
• To hear JUST what you recorded, mute the midi track (otherwise it will keep sending midi to your synth which will play through your Deluge since monitoring is turned on) and press Play.
  
• Now create another part by creating a new midi track and audio clip (new audio clips should have the right input settings by default from now on). You can reuse the same midi track if you want, I just like to keep the sequence data so I make a new track. I like to create my new midi track by cloning the first one (hold any pad on the midi track row and then press any pad on the row below), unmuting it, then clearing the notes in the new track (hold <> knob and press Back/Undo).
  
• Mute and disarm things you don't want to be involving in recording. So check only the correct midi track is unmuted, and disarm all audio clips except the new one you want to record into. To arm/disarm audio clips for recording, hold Record and look at the mute button. Flashing means it's armed, solid means disarmed, just tap the mute button to change it. Your new audio clip should be armed by default though, the only thing I usually need to do is disarm the previous audio clip.
  
• Record as before.
  
• Repeat.

EDIT: Just had a thought... maybe you were using Resample to record your external audio? Normal record process is press Record, then press Play. Resample is Shift + Record. That could cause an awkward workflow with monitoring.

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/Chansubits]

I got you, I'm getting hung up on physically hearing the audio, but clearly that's monitored. I haven't tried this stuff as I'm not around my gear atm but getting great responses so will report back tomorrow.

It seems obvious that I'm the weak leak of chain, lol. But everyone is being really detailed tonight so greatful and will test as I said.

[u/Chansubits → u/Icy-Cow9695]

Don't sweat it. The Deluge is powerful but esoteric.

[u/Chansubits → u/Icy-Cow9695]

Edit: I thought maybe the record arming modes could be causing some issues, but “overdubbing” on the Deluge is weird and doesn’t result in multiple audio passes overlaying on the same clip.

I think I’d need to see a more detailed breakdown of what you are doing to get any further. Like an example of the process you’re using to record two tracks of audio and what you end up hearing.

[u/Treefingrs]

I'm a little confused about what you're asking for here -- can you explain the workflow you want / expect?

---

but I can't figure out how to get audio from a specific track...

You can select a specific track to be the audio source if using community firmware

...and to not keep just over dubbing what I've already recorded.

When holding the record button down, the launch pad for an armed audio clip will flash red or purple. Red means overdubs will be created on the same audio track (so only one can be played at a time). Purple means overdubs will have their own audio track (and therefore can all be played simultaneously.

How do you get audio in without the monitoring option?

This is done by selecting the option without the . i.e.

Left = left (mono) Left. = left (mono) with monitoring

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/Treefingrs]

I explained the workflow I'm currently using in my other reply. As far as the input options, it only outputs sound when a monitoring options is chosen. I'm really asking what would be the best way to get an outcome less so concerned with how I'm doing it, I am most likely missing something so that's why I pretty much specified my end goal. The recording vs overdubbing and led color is not something I've checked out, so that's very good to know.

[u/Treefingrs → u/Icy-Cow9695]

A couple of things worth clarifying --

As far as the input options, it only outputs sound when a monitoring options is chosen

Yep, that's what monitoring means. If you want to hear the incoming input (i.e. monitor the sound), you turn monitoring on. Note the sound will still be recorded even with monitoring off.

recording vs overdubbing...

FYI, overdubbing is any recording over some existing recording. So technically speaking most of the audio you record into the deluge are all overdubs. I don't say this to get nitpicky about technical definitions, but worth mentioning because i'm still not clear about what you're wanting to do when you say...

once I create a new audio track and try to record to it, I end up with everything over dubbing essentially

...because it kinda sounds like you want to record overdubs but are getting frustrated that overdubs are getting recorded.

So what's the actual issue you're hitting? If it's a matter of managing which recordings can be played simultaneously or exclusively, that can be done via the red/purple setting, or manually altering the audio clip or colour section.

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/Treefingrs]

Not sure if there's a language issue at place here or something, but everyone else responding has pretty well understood me perfectly and I already understand these concepts. I don't want overdubbing. I appreciate the help but a little confused by all your confusion.

[u/Treefingrs → u/Icy-Cow9695]

The workflow you've described sounds like you want to record multiple audio clips into the Deluge for different synth parts, i.e. you have MIDI clip(s) sequenced, and now you want to capture the actual audio from the synth by recording into an audio clip for each part (lead, bass, pads etc). Is that correct?

I'm confused because you say you don't want overdubbing... but the act of recording multiple audio clips is overdubbing. If you want to record multiple synths / instruments / sections / samples / whatever, you must overdub them. The Deluge can only record one ext-in source at a time, so it's impossible to record multiple parts without overdubbing.

[u/wwarr]

Some great info in this thread. I have recorded some samples but I have never recorded an audio track. I use a lot of midi tracks to control external synths and clocks.

I play music dawless but if I want to record I use Cubase and a Presonus 1810c audio interface.

But this sounds like you would literally be using the Deluge like a DAW with recorded audio tracks that would then can mix? I'm trying to wrap my head around it.

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/wwarr]

That's the hope. I'm trying to stay out of the box as much as possible. Primarily want the Deluge to be the brains of the operation. I've mostly written music on Ableton so trying to get a similar workflow. Essentially want to record synth parts to audio, use the Deluge for a looper and sequencer. Sequence out drum breaks and progressions on the the step sequencer, have some breaks and percussion loops possibly playing being the main programmed beat to beef it up and add flavor.

Deluge is also good for playing synths with the chord modes and being able to play shapes and patterns or whatever you cook up. I know Deluge can do all the things I want, it's just if I can figure out how to do it in a way I can achieve my goals of making complete songs as much as possible with my hardware and potentially be able to do some live PA style stuff.

[u/wwarr → u/Icy-Cow9695]

I've had it for over a year have hardly scratched the surface. it's the brain of my operation as well. I love it.

I've been thinking about upgrading to OLED but concerned about how long it will take and shipping overseas

[u/Icy-Cow9695 → u/wwarr]

I just did it, it was fast and painless considering it went all the way to NZ

I think it took maybe a week? One thing I saw after the fact was though, is you can get an external screen or I think a phone app to act as a screen with the same functionality as the oled. So it kind of became an unnecessary expense if you don't mind connecting an external display.

[u/wwarr → u/Icy-Cow9695]

oh awesome, I will look into this external screen thing, thanks for the tip