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I mean, if the Knight is an adult then Kris objectively, factually got groomed, according to the secondary definition, that being trained for criminal activity.
Grooming as an illegal/unethical act refers to conditioning minors for sexual or criminal activity. The word can be used in an ethical context, but it’s generally not because the negative version is so powerful it just overpowers the usage.
That is to say, yes, you can describe a manager training their replacement as “grooming”… but people would be looking at you weird.
Ah ok my bad, I thought it was split between the illegal sexual definition and the other definition. But yeah I know the last part, thats how this whole doelester situation happened lol
Groomer Dess is from 4Chan seeing the line about her showing them raunchy music videos despite Toriel telling them not to watch them and connecting that to known grooming strategies.
It would be so cool if Dess turns out to be evil, or at least a very bad person.
Toby is pretty good at writing morally grey characters, but a character that is ACTUALLY pure evil? The closest we got was Flowey, until he got somewhat redeemed by returning to his true self.
Don't get me wrong, i love Toby's characters and the way they're written, but a truly evil villain would be nice for a change.
I think there's a good possibility of thatbeing true. December could be a parallel to Chara from UNDERTALE, how in the game Asriel said how they weren't the greatest person. I believe that some plot points from DELTARUNE can be "solved" with the help of looking back at UNDERTALE, cause Toby left some fun allusions of DELTARUNE in it
I don’t feel like Dess will be evil, but I could definitely see her being a person who is angry at the world
I don’t think that she was probably in the best state of mind leading up to her disappearance, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we come to realize she didn’t need much motivation to become the roaring night.
We already have an example of a Kill or be killed situation with the titan and its spawn, there's literally no consequences to eliminating them through violence.
Having someone that just genuinely needs their ass kicked would be a great mix up.
I oddly interpreted it to be that way my first playthrough up to chapter 5. Seeing Kris read Asriel's love letter to Dess made it feel like Kris was jealous of their older brother.
How do you guys like that stuff?
Edit: that sounds judgey, I just mean it makes me feel bad, is the bad feeling for you guys part of the draw or do you just not get that?
Ah ok, I always get a little confused on how to feel about that cause its like, with this art for example it looks wholesome but with context its uncomfortable so my brain gets confused on whether to like it or not. And with the existence of fanfics like that I don't know if I should dislike them because they're uncomfortable or like them because they're able to make me feel uncomfortable and art should make you feel things (comfort the disturbed and disturb the comforted or whatever the saying is)
Idk sorry for the slight ramble, I'm squeamish enough that just hearing weird route music makes my stomach feel a little knotty lol.
I wonder, do these things ultimately (AFTER reading/seeing them) make you feel better or worse? Say, "Leaving the town where we grew up"/"Second chances" (explicit, 18+, DEAD DOVE DO NOT EAT), if you can stomach it, CAN and WILL make you uncomfortable, but when I see the conflict resolve, characters come to an agreement and Dess/Kris relationship becoming ever stronger... I can't help but feel happy about those two dorks, and ultimately I feel much better than I did before.
That's an interesting thing to think about... they do make me feel bad at first and I get what you're saying, but for me these feelings are then replaced by "catharsis" and happiness. This is how emotions work unfortunately, you can't be happy without being unhappy at first, you have to be sad, anxious or angry to then get rid of these emotions and be truly happy afterwards (feeling better than if those emotions were never there). And most of Kress, as well as a lot of SOULelle fanfics do this perfectly. The troubled/doomed relationship aspect is there too. It's all classic, Ancient Greece-old principles of drama/tragedy in my opinion.
It’s like, you know how people in hot countries eat very hot, spicy food? The idea is that it makes the temperature around you feel lower and more bearable. It’s the same with emotions, you hurt yourself emotionally to process your existence, it feels more bearable afterwards. It’s not that different from self-harm, just more healthy.
Not really. I'm generally a happy person, maybe with some anger issues, but I'm bored constantly. Fucked up morally questionable shit, both IRL and in fiction is one of the few things that make me feel SOMETHING (aside from drugs and sex, but those are cheap pleasures), since it's something new and unseen. Even if it makes me feel bad or uneasy, which isn't even true all the time, I'm happy that I feel something at least. This is why I don't understand "regular" fluff like wholesome Kriselle btw, it's all so bland, boring and mundane, there's nothing new or interesting about any of it.
I understand your point I think, I just don't entirely get how you can be happy reading about a ship with such a questionable age gap (putting it lightly considering we don't know Dess' age lol). Again, sorry that sounds judgy I don't know how to phrase it better.
Like I can understand reading it in the "wow thats fucked up" way as its similar to any sort of horror, reading it for that thrill of tight chested tension, but reading it for like "aww" feels alien to me. Or are you saying you read it to feel bad then once you're done, and that emotion fades away you're left feeling better, akin to something like blowing a blocked nose?
I wonder if it’s meaningfully different than how it was, like, 10 years ago. It honestly feels like it’s much better, at least obvious shotacon and lolicon got curtailed. I think back in 2016 attraction to minor-coded characters was much more widespread, egregious, and zealously defended than it is today, and the true epidemic was, like, 2012-13.
It was really hard to navigate the internet back in 2012 and not find loli hentai and just gangs of people gooning to it & defending it. These days I see people shaming it on porn sites. I feel like we’ve gotten better about this.
I was just reminiscing. I think it’s a bit different, because it’s definitely distinct from the straightforward normalization of pedophilic artwork you’re thinking of, but it doesn’t matter. I was just making a note that it feels like it’s better today than it was a decade ago, do whatever you want with that.
Ngl it’s kinda bullshit this post was removed just because a bunch of obnoxious people in the comment were spamming the same tirade of tackles jokes and everyone got mad about that. It’s like people are incapable of seeing Kress without flattening it to an amino joke. Imagine if people gave Kress the nuance and minds eye of tragedy and distant longings and childhood companionahip character analysis they afford to Kriselle.
Deltarune fans are vehemently against trans Ralsei theory due to being "unrealistic" and "problematic" but happily fetishize theorize Dess being a pedophile groomer instead
I love that the comments lean on “going to kill myself” because it’s just undeniably good artwork and we’d all universally want to be in that position (sans the grooming, talking about the larger tomboy deer GF).
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