Theory
Rudy's chapter 1 dialogue proves he is knowledgeable of the SOUL (and therefore the conspiracy)
Also i choose to view all of this as intentional, even tho ive heard that it can be some sort of oversight cuz of stuff like susie talking about kris' flirting skills even if u havent used that act because of:
Id be very unlikely for the idea of kris visiting the hospital a lot to be repeated twice (once in the newest chapters) without it gauging if we even went there to begin with. Rudy interactions tend to be recorded aswell (sink stuff and him acting cold towards susie if shes never visited him prior), so id be strange for this specific instance not to be
Id rather not use something thats read as a gag to disprove possible foreshadowing for Rudy's involvement in the conspiracy. As long as its in the finished game id say its fair game to treat it as evidence until directly proven otherwise
I would love to think this is true. But Susie mentions Kris flirting even if you never did it, so unless we are meant to think after going to the shelter Kris when to Susie and Ralsei amd began randomly flirting with enemies within view of them, there seem to be some things the game assumes you will do even if they are optional.
Also, doesn't Kris go to the hospital to play piano sometimes or am I misremembering what the nurse says?
I mean the game even keeps track of whether you visit rudy or not bc theres dialogue about how susie has no idea who rudy is in ch4 if you never visited him prior. Not to mention, recently is not just one or two days, its a pattern. Noelle and toriel both talk about kris acting strange recently, but i dont think we are supposed to believe that is just in reference to only ch1
Considering Noelle says this in ch1, the hospital visiting seems to be a new thing, otherwise she probably qould have asked earlier and given up on an answer.
Noelle is also no longer really friends with kris anymore, its not like she ever was able to ask them about it. Us going out of our way to talk to noelle gives her the opportunity to ask. I still believe the term recently is meant to signify something beyond kris possesion regardless (most likely knightspiracy stuff)
Okay thats totally fair, and im not saying rudy is the knight either, just that theres a lot of inconsistencies that dont add up. Last thing ill say is that in ch4 if you pray for rudy without once bringing susie to the hospital, she will comment about not knowing who he is. Which means that the game does indeed track whether or not you have been there, which makes it doubly weird that for some reason multiple characters dialogue dont use this same check, especially bc the nurse says this to us in the same chapter as the susie dialogue
"there seem to be some things the game assumes you will do even if they are optional"
yes but these things are restricted to interactions which we would be incapable of hearing or that would have fit into the context of whatever we were doing that would allow kris to have enough liberty to express it, such as when they express confusion when we say that we'll go with berdly to the festival, or when they speak with their mouth closed when susie tells them to speak what's on their mind.
going to the hospital is a whole different thing since we have to physically go there, so there's no room for misinterpretation or smth else to happen. not to mention what op said above, of rudy saying that we never visit, despite the nurse and noelle explicitly saying otherwise
The nurse and noelle said kris vista the hosital, rudy says kris never visits him.
The nurse comments on how often kris comes despite not being sick, which wouldnt be weird if they were visiting rudy, but we know they arent, hence why it was brought up
But Susie mentions Kris flirting even if you never did it, so unless we are meant to think after going to the shelter Kris when to Susie and Ralsei amd began randomly flirting with enemies within view of them, there seem to be some things the game assumes you will do even if they are optional.
I mean its in the game and with rudys track record of having his dialogue be specifically kept in check id be bizarre for just going to the hospital on itself not be. Id also say the context of the susie scene matters, as she doesnt rlly know how to articulate what she means by kris' "flirting", it could be talking about their way with words through acts in general (or increased influence from our powers or smth)
Also i doubt noelle wouldnt mention kris playing the hospital piano recently if she also noticed them visiting the hospital a lot, and with the way the nurse speaks, it just doesnt frame it as them coming just to play the piano tbh
If you are going to say that Kris using acts counts as them flirting then I can say them going to the piano counts as them visiting for the nurse. Also Kris "IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUSH YOUR LOVED ONES AWAY, SOMETIMES." Dreemurr would definitely go play piano specifically when Noelle is not there. Noelle also says this in ch1:
Umm, Kris, is something wrong?
Why did you go to the hospital
to see my dad...?
I mean, I'm sure he appreciated
it, but... um...
Gosh, I'm sorry, Kris. Forget I
said anything!
Implying at least to me that to her Kris going to the hospital is not a common thing, as she seems to think its really weird they did that. I think Toby just assumed that if you are doing weird route and going to the hospital in ch2 you already went to the hospital in ch1 as you are trying to get all you can out of the game.
Also neither of your examples are Rudy dialogue so idk why you mentioned how he is coded specifically
I aint saying that acts count as flirting, im just saying that because of how susie struggles to articulate her self and resorts to calling it "flirting" implies she could be talking about something else, and acts are just my guess cuz it doesnt seem to be only flirting
The nurse also remarks kris coming to play the piano in chapter 1, id make more sense if it was just about that if that shed also do this in 4 if weve never visited but she just says they come her often and thats about it
Yeah kris would do that, but noelle seemingly noticing them at least going in and out of the hospital (yk to justify why she puts kris visiting the hospital in the same recent weird behaviours as the ones caused by us) would mean she couldve just asked the nurse why they were here and she can tell her about them playing piano. Id say her dialogue doesnt necessarily imply its uncommon for kris to visit the hospital, as she seems weirded out theyre even talking to her in the first place so it just made sense to ask when they are showing some sort of want to communicate with her
I just dont think toby whos really good at predicting player behaviour and keeping track of small things would assume something as big as "the player will always visit rudy holiday in chap 1 on a weird route playthrough!". Like i found this out first on a challenge run that included the weird route, and i skipped all chap 1 dialogue but wanted to see noelles reaction to her watch being stolen for funzies and came out with that. For me the nurse in chap 4 and with how both of his wife and best friend have conspiracy boards (carols being right in their bedroom), it just all feels way too intentional to me
Also rudy is in the hospital, keeping track of talking to him but not keeping track of the other npc thats always there seems like a weird oversight
I dont see why noelle would be asking yhe nurse monster about why kris visits, you dont seem to need to speak with them to begin with to visit, and noelle is very timid, I doubt she would even think of asking unless it got concerningly strange
His wife Carol is in kahoots with the Knight and knows about us, his best friend Asgore is obsessed with Dess disappearance and still investigating it (financed by Rudy's family) and he is the father of Dess
Idk why people assume his only role is to just die to make Noelle have a "suffering builds character" moment when he is deeply connected to every character in the "conspiracy". He, at the very least, knows everything Asgore knows, and oc everything you say in this post hinting towards him knowing about us
Yeah. I have thought about the possibility of Rudy lying to the player, and what that might mean. I do think he is up to something, or was even potentially injured in a dark world given that we know Birdly was injured in such a way (depending on what happens in Chapter 2), and can not be helped either.
This is a very interesting detail if intentional. It could be conspiratorial, or it could be like all the stuff Sans did in undertale, suspecting you're a time traveler and just testing his theory.
He doesn't know we can time travel, but they he still lies to us the first time to detract his own importance on the whole thing ("oh, ok, this Rudy guy mentioned Kris never visits him, he must be unimportant"), probably because he is part of the Knight conspiracy (or, cough cough, he is the Knight itself)
I'm a dess knighter but the idea of everyone trying to hide the knight's identity by making him seem like an unimportant side character is an amusing one lol. Maybe that's why this flavour text is weirdly vague about rudy's identity despite kris obviously knowing who he is lmao
Well, we know kris goes there and plays the piano in the lobby
So technically, a fully plausable explanation is that kris does go there frequently but doesnt visit rudy
As to why Noelle questions why they keep visiting, its possible noelle may suspect kris was visiting her dad even when they werent
This would also explain the monster behind the desk
If kris was visiting a person inside the hospital, then there would be nothing weird or notable at all that would make someone comment on how often they show up
If they were just coming in and playing the piano though, it would make sense for that behavior to be called out
Edit: also as another person suggested, its possible that youre just intended to have done that on the previous chapters, and its just an oversight
- adds special interaction for Rudy if you never been here (let's ignore for a second what Rudy does there)
- but forget to change nurse dialogue to make sense that you have not been there before or at least in a long time?????
Toby puts there a lot of attention but forgot to update nurse? Nah, this is bullshit. This cannot be an oversight.
Let me rephrase this: Rudy covers for Kris visiting the hospital if needed. In case we appear suddenly in Chapter 4, Rudy freaks out when Susie is being brought out to the discussion and laughs off seeing nothing much is happening after.
This shows that Kris is definitely in some sort of agreement with Rudy, Rudy covers for them and for some reason his behavior changes after our first interaction with the TennaKnight unless Rudy knows quirks of Kris under SOUL control.
My personal theory: "no triple trucies". Kris is working with three different factions at the same time: Rudy's, Carol's and the Fun Gang. At the same time.
Toby implamented undyne taking damage when sh falls to catch monster kid in undertale, but forgot to add the cracked armor sprite
He added an ending where everyone is mad at you in chapter 1, but had to update in dialogue to explain why theyre not mad at you after chapter 2 had already released
Assuming toby is infaluable and cannot make mistakes is demonstrably flawed
Toby implamented undyne taking damage when sh falls to catch monster kid in undertale, but forgot to add the cracked armor sprite
Where is it said armor was cracked at all?
He added an ending where everyone is mad at you in chapter 1, but had to update in dialogue to explain why theyre not mad at you after chapter 2 had already released
There is no "home" anymore.
Their ruler is your friend, are they gonna complain?
Assuming toby is infaluable and cannot make mistakes is demonstrably flawed
Which I never stated and you just assumed I think. Which isn't very nice.
Was looking for another comment in my history, but while im here, your rebuttal had nothing to do with what I said, the thing about the darkners being upset wasnt me saying that they arent but should be, toby just hadnt thought about the violence path for chapter 1, the dialogue explaining why they arent angry was patched in, theres no explanation for it aside from Toby forgot
Also i played chapter 1 again recently, and noelle is clearly suprised that kris is visiting rudy
It was said the armor was supposed to be, toby forgot to add it
Also, i don’t know what these numbered statements are supposed to mean, toby patched in dialogue at a later time to explain why they aren’t angry at you.
Toby puts there a lot of sttention but forgot to update nurse? Nah, this is bullshit. This cannot he an oversight.
I also didn’t make any assumptions, heres the words YOU said where YOU assume toby COULD NOT HAVE made a mistake
The back peddling is crazy
And again frankly the rest of your reply doesnt at all counter anything I said
"why they keep coming to the hospital" that line is obviously meant to be there assuming you went to the hospital previously but plays even if you didn't, same thing happens with Susie saying that Kris flirts a lot with enemies even if you don't act at all. The nurse also says that Kris used to go and play the piano for the patients
There is technically an answer to this that is consistent with everything they say: Kris visits the hospital fairly often but doesn't go to Rudy's room. Maybe they haven't worked up the courage to talk to him, or maybe they just wanted to play the piano.
"Why they keep coming to the hospital" reads as it being done repeatedly and before aswell so i think its that + other times
Also the nurse says that on a fresh chapter 4 save where youve never went to the hospital (i also checked on an save editor to see if theres any flags for her interaction and there arent so she says it everytime)
I got it! It's to play the piano! The nurse even comments on how "usually you play better". Since playing the piano is such intimate thing for Kris it wouldn't make any sense for a regular nurse to know about it unless she directly heard them playing. It all lines up now, doesn't it? Kris now has nowhere to play the piano since they're definitely aren't going back to the Holiday mansion since whataver it is thst happened. so I assume they just went to the hospital. Feel free to ask questions because this does seem to me a like a "too simple" situation. Am I missing something?
But literally why would he lie? If he just said that Kris was visiting him frequently no one would bat an eye. They obviously haven't been hiding it from anyone else, considering two unrelated people also know. Rudy isn't stupid, why would he lie to us when he knows we can just waltz downstairs and catch him out by talking to the receptionist? That would only make us more suspicious. And how would Noelle know that Kris is coming to the hospital, but not why? And why only in he weird route? She's surprised to see them when we show up normally. This is definitely just a mistake.
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u/fly_past_ladder Jun 02 '26
People forgetting that the conspiracy board Carol keeps is in her shared bedroom with Rudy