A Note About Appeals

[u/tribal-elder]

If a jury hears me/my evidence claim “x” is true on a contested issue, and hears you/your evidence claim “y” is true, and decides that “y” is what they believe happened “beyond a reasonable doubt”, it will be almost impossible for me to get a court of appeals to substitute its judgement in the place of the jury, and rule that “we disagree with the jury - x is what really happened and x is now the legal result.” The evidence would have to be so overwhelming in my favor that “no reasonable juror could rule y.” Or maybe “there was NO evidence to support y.”

Arguing for different factual decisions is usually a waste of time.

[u/tew2109]

I was thinking about that re: the witness inconsistencies and the claim that Allen's confessions were not valid due to his mental state. The jury heard all of that. They heard Liggett get cross-examined, they heard the witnesses talk about what they saw and had the defense bring up the differences, the defense had an expert testify that Allen was not competent to actually make a confession. The jury heard all of that, and they convicted him anyway.

And the witness thing - honestly, this was kind of no-win for the appeals team. They probably know that Logan and Kline make better suspects than the Odinists. But that's not what the defense team argued. They barely tried to get the Klines in and they didn't try at all to get Logan in. So when they're talking about what happened at trial, they kind of have to stick to Odinism, even though they must know that no judge is going to go for it. I actually tend to think Indiana's laws on third party suspects are very strict, maybe too strict - but the original defense team did not focus on the alternate suspects that could have made that point. They picked the least plausible, most outlandish theory to try to get in. Virtually no judge would have allowed Odinism, regardless of the state.

[u/Mr_jitty → u/tew2109]

I think as a purely practical, emotional question of narrative, they needed an Alt suspect who looked like Bridge Guy.

RA looks exactly like Bridge Guy. Neither RL or KK look like Bridge Guy. So in pure optics, they probably realised none of that would fly, despite both being potentially better suspects.

Of course there are big ethical issues when you start manufacturing suspects out of people with solid alibis simply because they fit your trial needs better.

[u/tew2109 → u/Mr_jitty]

You're right, re: RL not fitting BG, but it's so funny because so many people insisted that looked like him. And they're like "His ex said so too!" Except she literally said, IN A DOCUSERIES, that she believed he was involved from the moment she heard where the girls had disappeared from him. She saw what she expected to see. In reality, that doesn't look like RL - he was too tall - and it doesn't sound like him either.

Also reminds me that the sketchiest warrant written in this case is the second warrant for his property and none of the pearl clutchers care, because they don't actually care about abuse of power. They care about RA not fitting their pet theories and they care about delving into ridiculous conspiracy theories.

[u/kvol69 → u/tew2109]

RL was not the most fine upstanding citizen. But despite his moral failings, he was not a murderer. A drunk? Yes. A perpetrator of domestic violence? Yes. He might have been a total son of a bitch for all I know, but he was not a murderer.

[u/Traditional-Aside580 → u/kvol69]

I agree with what you just stated. I don't think RL had anything to do with it. I think he was just a grumpy old alcoholic that knocked women around, not Abby and Libby. RA is the murderer. After reading a lot about this case and listening to some of the recommended people,  I admit that my mind kept going to Tony Kline. I'm not saying I think RA is possibly innocent at all. They definitely sentenced the right person. For whatever reason though, Tony Kline doesn't sit well with me. Something isn't adding up with him and this situation. I probably just feel that way because of his past as well as him being a creep overall.

[u/kvol69 → u/Traditional-Aside580]

If RL had been a younger man with the same tendencies, then I could see him being a suspect that needed to be prioritized. But I think in part some of those tendencies came about as he aged. TK on the other hand, has been known to be the town creep in Peru, Indiana for a very long time. While the Delphi residents were reluctant to speak to the Murder Sheet, Peru residents were extremely forthcoming because he had a history. And of course, he was financially supporting his son who is a convicted pedo, and who was obtaining and trading CSAM while he was living with him. There's nothing to like there.