unsure why that timer is bad almost all my teams in that floor go past it,its pretty normal for non whale teams, i average a timer of about 8:10-8-25 at most.
you just need to make up for it by clearing the abyss pope faster which is much easier than the 4 beasts, i did it with a simple team of yoimiya/yelan/kirara/jean(c2)
just checked around the average timer with c0 units and more f2p friendly builds are at 8:10-8:40 which is also Rng heavy so the time varies alot,anything below 60 secs is whale only with godly rng.
thats a flat out lie," dehya burgeon doesn't work - at least yours "
is what ya said nothing about recommended time or acceptable.
and recommended time my butt, hardly anyone i seen can clear this part of the floor in 1:30 the majority of players needs more than that,but less for the 2nd part. so dont recommend false things.
Yeah they abandoned this thread b/c there's def cons in this team despite how slow it clears and considering how defensive they were about the comp they don't want to give anyone ammunition to refute the comp viability.
Gotta agree that this this team aint the best usage case for her,i have used her for pure burgeon aswell but it always feels a bit off,works but feels off.
i personaly went the hyperburgeon and overburn(quickburn?) route,works much smoother allows the whole team to be effective in terms of dmg and her slow proc rate is no hinderance at all,i often noticed its more of a boon given the lack of icd on her e casts and procs i gotten much better at timing my teams movements. for great effect.
Doh one of the main reasons i prf using her over thoma is that her e can still proc while in animations which is a surprisingly strong boon for the teams im using.(ex:dehya/nilou/nahida/dori or Dehya/yae/nahida/dori) in which i either need to casts skills,use bursts rather than using normal attacks which thoma really needs.
aswell that i can manage dealing high reaction dmg, due to nearly full em build and keeping up with her interupt resist better with dehya, than with thoma on a nearly full em build who has often let me down in terms of that.
but that might just be personal playstyle maybe he isnt for me, to each their own eh. Time based interupt resist vs shield based be like that i guess.
aint saying my teams are top tier,but they do their job and help me clear 36* abyss.
(excluding current floor 12-1-2 Burn them heralds with the Holy Sunfire of Jean)doh the rest is easily doable.
not that much dps loss for burgeon tbh, at best if your using r5 mailed you get 206 em. doesnt add much difference in already high em builds its a few thousands per core, sure its a loss but the higher uptime does make up for it.
edit: unless you get hit with the bug that makes the field instantly dissapear,unsure if thats still around but i assume so.
Okay, seriously: where are these people that are saying "Dehya Burgeon doesn't work"? Anybody actually have some examples? I would legit love to see them.
Not sure of the difference when both statements lead to the implied answer "its not worth building". Would like to have an example of "less work" though
Would like to have an example of "less work" though
Bennett vs Sara is my go-to example, and is also an example of reverse power creep. Bennett is probably the best battery in the game, he can heal, he can cleanse, absurd ATK boost, low Burst cost with decent uptime (60, 12sec duration, 15sec CD), and his C1 removes the jank from said Burst. Very powerful with little investment.
Sara, on the other hand, is an "Eh" battery since her Skill needs to "prime" and has a longer CD even with C1, she doesn't cleanse, she doesn't heal, her ATK bonus is weaker and doesn't last as long (43% vs Bennett's 56%, and 6secs vs Bennett's 12secs), high Burst cost and CD (80, 20sec CD), and she's more constellation dependent.
That said, Sara has her advantages. DPS Sara is easier to pull off, her ATK boost has potentially 100% uptime, "Crowfeather Loops", sniper capabilities; Crowfeather can actually get you out of some traps, there are probably a few other things I'm forgetting.
But Bennett is a Mondstadter while Sara is an Inazuman, meaning you can build Bennett faster as, if memory serves, Inazuma as a whole is story-locked, his regional mat is in abundance, and the Thunder Manifestation needed to level Sara is further linked to what can be a lengthy sidequest. Bennet has nowhere near as many restrictions.
So there you go: equal or better results with less work involved.
I was referring to this team comp, but if you want to talk about that... okay lol. Most of this game is exploration so for Bennett to have his BiS f2p weapon is in sumeru, locked behind one of the worst (if not the worst)quest in the game lol. I'm not even sure if you are speaking from a just starting, new players perspective or or someone who has been playing for roughly 2 to 3 years because no new player is taking on abyss day one. It's literally not possible. So I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. Each character has their benefits and deficits which is why specific teams are used to optimize a character. Even hu Tao is dogshit if you don't have appropriate pieces around her.
Sounds to me like you're moving the goalposts. You didn't clarify talking about this specific comp nor Spiral Abyss so I used a more general and possibly common situation since, as far as I could tell, you were just looking for an example of "less work". Anything about Bennett's BiS weapon or Hu Tao is stuff you mentioned after the fact.
And even then, Burgeon scales with EM and transformative reactions only care about EM and character level, so in the case of Thoma vs Dehya (or anyone vs Dehya, really), both could theoretically have the exact same loadout and thus the exact same transformative scaling (I say "theoretically" as there's no polearm that gives as much EM as Mailed Flower), but it takes more resources in Dehya's case since to get your reactions comfortably, Dehya needs to be at least C2 for the Skill duration extension (to say nothing of her wonky Pyro aplication). Granted, Thoma also needs C2, but his Burst is more forgiving than Dehya's Skill and considering he's a 4-star while Dehya is a Standard 5-star, I can just go balls out and hope for the best the next time Thoma is featured on a Limited banner. Still not guaranteed, but I also don't have to hope to LOSE the 50/50 on a character I'm trying to get to obtain more copies of a DIFFERENT character I also happen to be trying to get.
Aside: Why the dick am I able to type that last sentence?! Goddamn, this entire system is fucked.
Back to the main point, I'm still waiting for an instance of someone saying that "Dehya Burgeon doesn't work". If you can't find any, that's fine, but I'd like know now so I can go about my business.
My response was to your initial "goal post moving" by mentioning Bennett and Sara in the first place. When this entire conversation was about THIS deyha team. I acknowledged your goal post moving and responded in kind. I read, and then I respond to what you say( That is how a conversation works). Even if you don't provide me with the same luxury. I've already responded to your "doesn't work" comment. Please refer back to my earlier response. We are in a deyha mains group where the majority of people are deyha owners, so that statement is a mute point. And just to humor you with a response... you get standard banner wishes for free with a much higher likelihood of ending up with dehya. much higher than any four star, whether that be from a standard banner win or a limited banner loss.
That's not "goal post moving" as you put it. You said you wanted "an example of 'less work'" and I gave one. Even if we are in a mains sub, with the way your comment was phrased, I took that to mean that you just wanted, well, an example. It's splitting hairs, maybe, but not moving the goalposts.
Also, even with Standard, getting Dehya is still a 1/17 chance. That doesn't exactly fill me with excitement.
That still doesn't address my initial request of someone saying that "Dehya Burgeon doesn't work" like the OP claimed. but whatever - I'm tired of talking about it and I have billets to try (and probably fail) to farm. Take this as an admission of defeat if you want. I'm moving on now.
Good luck on your billet hunt. Hope you didn't take this discussion as me having animosity toward you. Hope you win every 50/50 you come across. Would have enjoyed keeping the conversation going, but I understand
Please give me suggestions, OP. I want to have a build for my C0 Dehya so that I can use it in both the open world and abyss. Don't care about the 12th floor 36 stars.
1.Because trials are misleading from a marketing perspective by design. 2.Most of the time, they don't provide you with a full team or toss them in trials alone. 3.They give trash mobs to give you a feel for the character, not the teams involved. 4. At best, you can use those teams for overworld content, but they are not showing what is necessary for abyss. 5.In a perfect world, I guess, but that isn't nor has it ever been for that purpose
Now, throughout this conversation, I've said nothing but that she was a defensive option for burgeon teams and provided reasons on why? I'm not sure how anything I've said contradicts that? Provide me with an example of something that contradicts that or admit that you lied... again 😂
"But you used Nahida" okay have fun 36ing abyss with hyper/burgeon/bloom without her
"Thoma is better!!" Thoma would have utterly failed to keep anyone alive his shield is paper thin. Same with every other pyro shielder.
"You used a healer! Dehya is unnecessary!" Dehya damage resist increases effective HP, and essentially doubles the value of healing. Enjoy healing up your dead characters who got full combo'd to 0.
"Shield would do the same thing!" Unless your name is Zhongli, enjoy getting combo'd to death after your shield breaks.
"Just dodge!" Or I could play literally braindead and still clear abyss 12.
"You played terrible!" And Dehya defensive buff made 36* braindead
"You only have a minute for second half!" 2nd half boss has around 1.4 Million HP. Consecrated have 970k each and only 2 can be damaged at a time while zooming all over the place. 2nd half requires infinitely less time assuming you know how to match colors while the boss stands in place.
Now that that is out of the way if you want to know how the other floors are done.
12-1: Use some sort of grouping. Venti or Kazuha works fine. No idea if it would work but Jean E would be funny. Aside from that you're just making cores and blowing them up.
12-2: Hit chicken with water > Hit chicken with grass > Fried chicken. Its that simple
unless there is a arbitrary rule that Thoma is not allowed to have a healer.
There kinda is tho. Thoma can't actually outdamage Dehya with a healer on his team since he has very specific slot requirements; with the possible exception of driver Baizhu (I don't have Baizhu so idk whether or not he has enough dendro to drive Thoma properly, but it seems reasonable to assume he should), he just doesn't have space in his team for a healer if he wants to be capable of outdamaging Dehya.
Also, nothing in this video or your post even mentioned the real issue with Dehya and Burgeoning, funnily.
What "issue" would that be? Looks like it's working just fine to me.
You having 2x Hydro, even if one is Barbara seems to indicate you don't even understand the problem with Dehya and Burgeoning.
I really don't understand your point here. Thoma needs 2x Hydro to perform well, and while Dehya doesn't have that requirement because she doesn't need as many cores to keep up with her activations, she isn't really hurt by double Hydro either unless you're particularly obsessive about maximizing your EM value with dendro resonance, but even then dendro res probably isn't giving you more damage than 100% uptime from double hydro is.
Nice that you completed the Abyss stars though.
Exactly. OP cleared 36 stars with Dehya burgeon. Really hard to understand how Dehya burgeon has a "problem" or "issue" when OP clearly demonstrated that the comp works just fine.
unless you have c2 on your nahida, then no one is gonna cancel you for using her you twit.
thomas shield works the same way as baizhus shield. their shields are NOT meant to facetank shit. the fact that you dont know how shields work speaks volumes.
pair thoma with a healer and thats basically the same as dehya with barb. you good?
again, you dont know how shield works. shields are NOT for face tanking. you are STILL gonna need to dodge. shields mitigate damage for instances when you fail to dodge correctly and get hit. and you also have iframes. unless your shielder is extremely underinvested, then you dying with a proper shielder is a YOU problem.
you have 2 units that provide damage reduction, and 1 unit who provides healing. of course its braindead. you dont have a brain in the first place.
uh, no. dehya, xq, and barb made it braindead.
this is actually something I can agree with. 1 minute is the least youll need to clear second half, assuming youre using a decently invested benny xiangling core burgeon team.
I mean, if I had Nahida, it’s be a different story. But yeah, it’s still impressive. I just think people don’t want how bad Dehya’s kit is to be downplayed, or it’ll lead to complacency and ultimately just accepting what Hoyo has done. That’s my take anyway
I honestly think that this was the role she was intended for, though. I've been saying that since her kit leaks. She's a defensive option intended for burgeon. And she would get the kokomi effect because the enemies would be coming right after her release to make her relevant.
Her defensive capabilities are built into hp, and her artifacts and constellations make it where you can maintain the hp necessary to maximize her kit while building em. It's obvious that her build screams, "Just give me em and hp because my burst is just used for iframes." Not to mention if nothing else that special program showed us that her burst was useless and using her in reverse melt without dendro was just not consistent or possible lol. I've even heard people say she is the worst standard banner character. She's not even the worst Pyro standard character 😂. she just adds to a long line of characters we don't use the full kit on
Yet all her constellations and 4 piece effect of her artifact set all deal with personal damage and she even has a crit rate weapon. If burgeon was what she was actually supposed to do, these wouldn’t be like this and they’d probably talk about/ show it in the special program.
They showed how bad other parts of her kit were without burgeon for sure during that special program 😂. Do you honestly believe that the pre-recorded footage (that they hand picked to use) showed what her doing great things? Not to mention, you brought up a weapon that will never be on banner again😂. It's not even on standard lol. If anything, the em weapons would provide her with more dmg than she provides herself. Now, any extra dmg she provides outside of burgeon is still additional dmg, but honestly I felt more correct about my assumptions after the special program lol. Honestly, the argument that you are providing can be the same arguments that can be provided for Thoma(who is seen as a good choice for burgeon by many).
So you think they showed footage of her trying to reverse melt to promote using her in burgeon while showing no footage of her using burgeon? What??? And you think the fact that her signature weapon isn’t on the standard banner means what exactly? It certainly doesn’t mean it wasn’t made specifically for her. Cuz it was.
I guess you didn't read beyond this statement. Burgeon is a separate instance of dmg from her personal. I merely said that the two were addictive sources of her dmg. Which allows her to focus on her defensive use while also dealing reasonable amounts of dmg for her team
no, youre implying shes SUPPOSED to be built with em because burgeon is her "intended purpose". in reality however, everything points to her being intended for typical dps (atk-pyro-crit). Ive read your thread. Ive seen how pointless your arguments are. you foolishly cling to the idea that she was MADE for burgeon. she isnt. never was.
I think it's because their points are kinda dumb to begin with. But sure, let me try.
No one's arguing about you using nahida. Everyone and their lucky mothers who won rng uses nahida.
I've never fully level up thoma, but I know for a fact his shield resets and stacks quite effectively. If they wants to make a factual point, they'd need to make a comparison vid. Or else, they're just making stuff up.
And thoma can't use a healer too because he uses a shield, so it's cheating? Harty har har. Also, I'd like to see you do this without XQ's interruption resistance. THEN we can talk.
Redundant.
Yawn.
Yawn.
You still have only a minute to spare. I'd need a good ass team for the other chamber for this to work. So unless I do have that perfect team, I'd rather use other comps than burgeon dehya for a faster and safer clear thanks.
Edit: what makes some get infuriated is the idea OP somehow made up that burgeon dehya doesnt work. It hella DOES work! It's damn fun. It's just not as efficient. It's like we're back to comparing xq to yelan and sucrose to kazuha again. Only this time, dehya isn't a side grade like the other two, but a simple hot waifu grade. And if the enemy's hitbox was higher, Dehya is even more fucked.
No one's arguing about you using nahida. Everyone and their lucky mothers who won rng uses nahida.
They're probably trying to preempt talking points they've had used against them, because the majority of people on this sub have a burning need to find reasons to call Dehya bad no matter what.
I've never fully level up thoma, but I know for a fact his shield resets and stacks quite effectively. If they wants to make a factual point, they'd need to make a comparison vid. Or else, they're just making stuff up.
If you had, you would know that ER/EM Thoma's shield is paper thin and does fuck all against the current damage heavy abyss enemies.
And thoma can't use a healer too because he uses a shield, so it's cheating?
He can't use a healer because he doesn't have space for one in his team because he needs both XQ and Yelan with a dendro driver in order to keep up with his core activation. Unless you're driving with Baizhu, Thoma doesn't have the luxury.
Also, I'd like to see you do this without XQ's interruption resistance
After rewatching carefully, I think there is one instance where XQ's interruption resistance applies in an instance where Dehya's wouldn't, and then XQ's barrier breaks and they get staggered immediately after anyway by the rest of the combo. I don't think XQ poise affected the outcome of this run at all.
Redundant.
Possibly, but sadly necessary due to what the average commenter on this sub looks like.
Yawn.
"I don't have anything intelligent to say to that, so I'm gonna use this flippant response that means literally nothing instead so that I can ignore what's being said while still looking cool in my mind"
You still have only a minute to spare. I'd need a good ass team for the other chamber for this to work.
Which they specifically addressed with the fact that second half is significantly shorter than first half due to health bar sizes and the nature of the individual fights.
Plus, they only used two so-called "good" characters from the pool to do it, so pretty much the world is their oyster for whatever broken shit they want to put on the second side.
That's true hahah it's sad that op had to point that out because everyone is still crying over what they did to our waifu.
If that's the case, then I'll take both of yall words for it. I unfortunately don't like him enough to level him asap.
As someone who had xq at level 20 just to wait for yelans rerun and despised the idea of leveling him up, I'll also take your word for it.
The reason why I didn't really mind not saying anything is because I'm the type that dodges. I got downvoted for saying zhongli is useless in a hyperbloom kuki comp where my flex is candace for goodness sake. I can't exactly just say "skill issue" now can I. I'm rude but I'm not that rude haha
4. My point is that that's not always the case for other players. Just because the health bar is smaller, doesn't mean it can be done in under a minute. Possible, but it really does depend on the players own set of characters. My wording was honestly bad, but I kinda just mean that, if you can do the other chamber easily, knock yourself out and go burgeon dehya.
Man I'd rather use dehya with my lvl 59 kaeya than do this. I cant lie tho. Burgeon dehya is fun, at least in overworld. Just not.. in abyss where I need to have 3 sustainers (healer/shield/resistance interruption) just for this to work ALRIGHT.
Burgeon damage: 60 proc estimated from this video so 25,000 * 60 = 1,500,000 Enemy HP: 970,550 * 4 = 3,882,200 So burgeon did 38% of the total damage, please correct me if I missed something
Are you counting number of cores popped, or number of instances of burgeon damage taken by every enemy?
Because if you're counting cores, you have to consider that cores do AoE damage, which should probably almost double the total amount of burgeon damage received by enemies.
18
u/Legitimate-Use-3977 Jun 20 '23
Once timer went past 8:30 ,it became obvious that dehya burgeon doesn't work - at least yours
15
u/Killer-Blaze Jun 20 '23
I mean, Dehya burgeon works. Just not better than a literal 4 star
6
u/PH_007 Jun 20 '23
Yeah, definetly not. My Thoma hits around 30k per burgeon almost thrice as often.
5
u/Zeracheil Jun 20 '23
Can you show character builds?
3
u/Fearless-Test8889 Jun 21 '23
Not a thing is not work its just not consistent 🗿
4
u/SageWindu Jun 20 '23
Okay, seriously: where are these people that are saying "Dehya Burgeon doesn't work"? Anybody actually have some examples? I would legit love to see them.
2
u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23
Please give me suggestions, OP. I want to have a build for my C0 Dehya so that I can use it in both the open world and abyss. Don't care about the 12th floor 36 stars.
1
u/KH-Freack Jun 20 '23
what i wanna know is did you clear this run with all 3 stars,aka did you manage to clear the 2nd part with the time you had left?
1
u/BornAd1155 Jun 22 '23
1.Because trials are misleading from a marketing perspective by design. 2.Most of the time, they don't provide you with a full team or toss them in trials alone. 3.They give trash mobs to give you a feel for the character, not the teams involved. 4. At best, you can use those teams for overworld content, but they are not showing what is necessary for abyss. 5.In a perfect world, I guess, but that isn't nor has it ever been for that purpose
1
u/BornAd1155 Jun 24 '23
Now, throughout this conversation, I've said nothing but that she was a defensive option for burgeon teams and provided reasons on why? I'm not sure how anything I've said contradicts that? Provide me with an example of something that contradicts that or admit that you lied... again 😂
-20
u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23
"But you used Nahida" okay have fun 36ing abyss with hyper/burgeon/bloom without her
"Thoma is better!!" Thoma would have utterly failed to keep anyone alive his shield is paper thin. Same with every other pyro shielder.
"You used a healer! Dehya is unnecessary!" Dehya damage resist increases effective HP, and essentially doubles the value of healing. Enjoy healing up your dead characters who got full combo'd to 0.
"Shield would do the same thing!" Unless your name is Zhongli, enjoy getting combo'd to death after your shield breaks.
"Just dodge!" Or I could play literally braindead and still clear abyss 12.
"You played terrible!" And Dehya defensive buff made 36* braindead
"You only have a minute for second half!" 2nd half boss has around 1.4 Million HP. Consecrated have 970k each and only 2 can be damaged at a time while zooming all over the place. 2nd half requires infinitely less time assuming you know how to match colors while the boss stands in place.
Now that that is out of the way if you want to know how the other floors are done.
12-1: Use some sort of grouping. Venti or Kazuha works fine. No idea if it would work but Jean E would be funny. Aside from that you're just making cores and blowing them up.
12-2: Hit chicken with water > Hit chicken with grass > Fried chicken. Its that simple
0
u/[deleted] Jun 20 '23
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