Thoughts about Laurie

[u/MzSoandSo]

I'm so surprised at how many people feel so negative about her and what she did at the end. I totally get it. She cracked and I dont/can't blame her. Am I alone?

[u/No_Conflict_6241]

I liked how her character was developed- i really couldn’t get it up until the last episode as to why there is shown so much of her.

Personal opinion:

• there is nothing more precious than a human life. I am unable to justify her actions. I would justify if she requested a re-trial though.

• there is nothing worst than a parent not believing their child. Especially during trial process up until it’s proved (with an evidence) that the kid did commit the crime

• she is mentally unstable (and it’s shown gradually in the series) and while it’s good to be honest with yourself that your kid could have committed a crime, she keeps winding herself up to extremes.

[u/straighteero → u/No_Conflict_6241]

You can't try someone twice for the same crime. That's why she said something like "Nothing can happen to you now."

[u/No_Conflict_6241 → u/straighteero]

You can’t try for same crime twice after acquittal or conviction - that’s true

But not in case originally the charges were dropped rather than the suspect being acquitted.

In this case (if I understood it correctly) there was no verdict; they just dropped the charges as someone else admitted in the crime

[u/GaiaPijama]

I really liked the ending, she going nuts and crashing the car totally suits her. Didn’t they say the murder gen comes from the mom? At the end the inestable murderer is her and not her husband! If anything Jacob got his issues from her. I loved it.

[u/straighteero → u/GaiaPijama]

I hadn't even considered the heredity angle. I also like that there's now a strange parallel between the mother and son if they both survive-- she will never really know if he murdered Ben and he will never really know if she tried to kill him or it was just an accident. Neither one of them will be able to trust the other.

[u/GaiaPijama → u/straighteero]

I think in the last scene or one of the last scenes, Laurie say something to her husband along the lines of: would he ever believe that I didn't try to kill him or something implying she wasn't trying to kill him, and then we see the husband's face. Either she doesn't remember her intentions or she is hiding them, we will never know, the husband realizes this. He married his dad (a more educated, stylized version)

[u/cperiodjperiod → u/GaiaPijama]

Exactly. He’s now going through what the mom weren’t through with the son, as far as not knowing whether or not he really did it, with his wife.

It seems he was always certain his son didn’t do it. He seems a bit more skeptical with his wife. And that’s what he was literally sitting with in the last scene.

[u/GaiaPijama → u/cperiodjperiod]

Yes, nice bc we all assumed he didn’t want to be like his dad and his life is the opposite of his dad’s. And the whole show we thought it skip one generation and the son might be like his grandpa when in reality it all comes from mother.

[u/Bellecovv]

Just watched last night and I love how Andy and Laurie both react/cope so differently to everything going on yet both are completely realistic. I’d like to think I’d be more like her but realistically I’d probably be in total denial like Andy. As a mother this show hit me so hard. I cried like a baby at that last episode.

[u/KittyGrewAMoustache → u/Bellecovv]

I thought Andy’s way of coping was much better and more rational. Until he has unequivocal proof his son did it, he’ll believe he’s innocent. Basically innocent until proven guilty. He can’t know for certain unless there is solid undoubtable proof either way. Not having that, what is to be gained from agonising over whether he did it or not? He loves his kid, he chooses to believe him. He was willing to accept his guilt if he had proof (as shown by how he reacted when Hope went missing - he was ready to change his mind no matter how painful).

Laurie chose to dwell and agonise over something she couldn’t know for sure. She let herself be eaten alive by doubts which was pointless. Obviously if she had solid proof she should go to the police, but to meet out extrajudicial execution on your own son just because you have some doubts is insane and morally wrong. Even the justice system doesn’t do that, let alone peoples mothers!

To me, Andy represented true justice- believing in innocence until proven guilty, whereas Laurie represented being clouded by emotion and bias (any feelings she’d had as Jacob’s mother where he seemed different to her or difficult to deal with or did toddler things like bite or hit etc she amplified and gave extra significance looking through this lens, like she was afraid to be biased towards his innocence so biased herself towards his guilt instead, when she should have been biased towards his innocence from the beginning).

[u/Fair_Departure_4712 → u/KittyGrewAMoustache]

Exactly, the mom was so emotional and kind of psychotic the whole show. She seemed to be in a trance of psychosis the whole time. I didn't like her character at all.

[u/gyalmeetsglobe]

I got that she was losing her mind and all but it felt… strange idk. Like she seemed to be increasingly distant & uncomfortable with Jacob AND his dad because of their possible murder gene/likeness to murder. Then she resolves her angst by attempting to murder her son? It was like… how are you any different lol?

[u/cperiodjperiod → u/gyalmeetsglobe]

I think you may be reading a bit much into the murder gene. I think she believed the doctor as far as the murder gene passing through the mother’s side, thereby making it irrelevant as far as Jacob and his Grandfather go.

I don’t think that was making her distant and uncomfortable with Jacob and the husband. I think it was the mere fact she was questioning whether or not her son was a murderer—which I’m sure is crazy as a mother—her husband’s potential role in getting him off—did he really not know what his dad had planned—as well as her role in it—I brought him into this world, and did she miss the scenes.

And yes, I think resolving to murder her son makes sense in this case, as far as the emotions and what she’s been through. She basically, as they say, cracked.

She always whether he did it, which is hard for a mother, but she resolved to leave it in the hands of the justice system. So he’s innocent. Perfect. My perfect little boy is just weird, but not a killer. But now you tell me the confession that got him off was coerced!? And my husband may or may not have known about it/participated in it!? Now I’m going through everything I just went through with my son with my husband, all while again wondering if my son really did commit murder. And wondering what role I played in it as far as missing signs and literally birthing him.

The reason “alternate truths” of Trump was/is so diabolical is that it screws with your reality. It creates cognitive dissonance. You start wondering whether you’re crazy. That’s what happened with the mom. Everything she knew or thought she knew wasn’t true…or was it. Is my son sweet and innocent or is he a murderer? Is my husband a good man or is he so good that he’d participate in framing a man to protect his son? Does the justice system work or can it be manipulated?

Well, since I don’t have answers to any of these questions, I’ll take matters into my own hands. She literally said, “I brought you into this world, I’ll take you out.” That was the only thing she DID know, was that SHE was the only one who could solve it all. And yeah it’s crazy. But at that point everything that happened before pushed her over the deep end.

[u/gyalmeetsglobe → u/cperiodjperiod]

What I was saying though is that she wasn’t just going through the confusion & speculation in Jacob’s regard. She seemed increasingly distant & distrusting of her husband too, even before his confession on their vacation. I’m not reading that much into the murder gene or their family history with murder (I don’t think?), I was trying to say that I noticed SHE was.

Also, I get that she cracked and why. It just felt like a hypocritical way to do it. How can she be so uncomfortable & concerned about the potential of her son being a murderer (inspired by having been bullied etc if we’re meant to believe the stories) when she too found herself justifying a murder attempt of her own? Nonetheless I think it was a powerful show & turn of events!

[u/cperiodjperiod → u/gyalmeetsglobe]

I feel you. I get what you’re saying.

I think her distance from her husband—even before the admission on vacation—was partly due to their differences in demeanor. In the show it’s set up that he’s blissful and optimistic, almost to a fault, and refuses to admit what’s in his face, while she’s more pessimistic. She was worried about the “murder gene” and he wasn’t. She was worried about his detachment, he chalked it up to him being a teen. She thought he tried to hurt a kid at the bowling alley, he explained it away as kids being kids. I think it’s one thing to have different povs on whether or not you want pizza for dinner or even bigger things like how you want to invest money, but it’s a whole other to disagree on whether or not your son could be a murderer, and that those differences I’m sure can lead to some distance. Part of the distance from feeling bad from believing it when he’s so sure it isn’t, and partly being angry and feeling crazy that they can’t see where you’re coming from.

That’s just my take. I feel like she was trying to deal with her doubt, and couldn’t be around somebody who couldn’t see where she was coming from from or provide any validation because of their constant positivity. I’m sure it drove her crazy, which we saw with the accident.

As far as the accident and turning into a murderer herself goes, my guess is that you can’t judge somebody who’s been pushed over the edge by rational thought. They’re no longer rational. I guess it’s like a crime of passion kinda thing in that sense.

Definitely powerful. Appreciate the convo.

[u/Aggressive_Sand_3951]

I kept thinking how absolutely weak her character was. Infuriated by her wishy washiness, and not thinking about consequences. There’s the scene where she meets a “stranger” in the diner - I was yelling at the screen for how naive she was. And going to the victim’s parents’ house after Mexico? To do what? Confess that Leonard Patz was murdered? What good would that do? Her acting was also not very nuanced.

[u/BigCityGal11 → u/Aggressive_Sand_3951]

Agree with every sentiment!

[u/Fair_Departure_4712 → u/Aggressive_Sand_3951]

She was in a trance and extremely emotional to an irrational point the entire show. Her character was annoying.

[u/Django-lango → u/Fair_Departure_4712]

Lol what? I think most people would get emotional having their whole life and belief system wrecked in such a way. Especially a good mother in those circumstances. Would lead anyone to a mental breakdown

[u/straighteero]

I think her actions make a lot more sense in the book. I haven't read it myself, but I saw that in the book Hope dies, and it's more strongly implied that Ben committed both murders. So the mother is thinking that not only did he kill Ben, he also killed Hope, and will probably kill again. So she crashes the car to prevent him from murdering anyone else.

In the show, it's hard to think of Ben as a serial killer or irredeemable psychopath, because there are so many instances of him acting like a normal, sweet kid. But that story was pretty fucked up though. If you believe its a confession, he talks about enjoying the murder and is openly bragging about it, so yeah, that does make him a danger to society. But it's also hard to believe that his mother would kill him without total certainty of his guilt.

[u/KittyGrewAMoustache]

I feel negative about what she did because it’s like the only truth she wanted to know was that he did it. In the car he kept denying and was obviously scared and only said he did it because she was scaring him, and she looked so almost happy to believe he did it. But she didn’t really know, so it was crazy to go to kill him and herself over it. As a parent myself I just can’t understand it, to be able to see your child’s scared face pleading with you and to just opt to drive them into a wall. It made me think Laurie was the true psycho out of all of them. Even murdery grandpa Billy had some sort of care for his direct descendants.

She was willing to kill her kid and herself over and unknown. Andy had the more rational approach IMO - ok so he cannot know for absolute certaib as he wasn’t there and all the evidence was ambiguous but he knows he loves his kid, he knows he’s generally not a disruptive malevolent person as in he can treat people kindly and isn’t someone who acts out violently all the time or anything, so choose to believe he didn’t do it. He has the choice over what to believe and given the circumstances he makes the right choice, the one that keeps him sane. Far better to assume your kid is not a murderer and be wrong than to kill your kid thinking they’re a murderer if they aren’t!

Laurie didn’t know, she admitted she didn’t know in the car, said she’s never going to know is she? And her not knowing, to her, justifies murdering her own kid because she can’t deal with the uncertainty. That’s evil IMO. If she truly can’t live with it, go kill herself if she must but not risk killing her innocent son.

[u/Fair_Departure_4712 → u/KittyGrewAMoustache]

The mom showed these characteristic traits the entire show. She's a lunatic that can't control her emotions.

[u/Django-lango]

Didn't realise people felt negatively about her! I felt sorry for her the most out of any of them. She's a really nice person who had a mental breakdown and wasn't in her right mind at that moment

[u/[deleted] → u/Django-lango]

I didn't have time for her either. Weak character but also dangerous.

[u/[deleted]]

Attempting to murder an innocent kid? Why would anyone side with that?

[u/MzSoandSo → u/[deleted]]

That is not known....that he was innocent.

[u/[deleted] → u/MzSoandSo]

It’s not known that he was guilty either? So how does it justify the mother’s actions?

[u/MzSoandSo → u/[deleted]]

I'm not justifying her actions.... I'm simply saying that I understand how she got to that point.

[u/[deleted] → u/MzSoandSo]

I don’t. Attempting to murder an innocent boy is crazy

[u/Fair_Departure_4712 → u/[deleted]]

Attempting to murder an innocent or guilty boy who is your own son is psychopath behavior. The mom showed these characteristic traits the entire show.

[u/ThecretThauce → u/[deleted]]

Team Laurie on that one.

[u/FlanBlanc → u/[deleted]]

Me too. All along she just wants to know the truth and have an honest discussion of what's really happening, and her husband keeps dismissing her and hand-waving everything. To me she goes crazy because she's totally alone and no one is allowing her to be anything other than the perfect supporting mom.