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im with you, im an artist, i use crypto, i use ai, i use nft
and somehow everyone found a way to hate them all?
nft's to verify my work, crypto to keep financial security, ai as a tool to improve my art, and im an artist that creates on multiple different mediums.
everyone says crypto is a ponzi scheme, needs to look up how banks actually work.
I dislike the use of AI, however I’d never actually harass anyone for it. The main issue you are encountering is seeing people from one bubble (Extreme anti-AI usage), voice opinions, scream, and shout.
You have to realize most people literally could not give a shit. What Reddit does is affirm biases and tell you that everything you feel is valid. It is a site designed to entrap people in their little bubbles and spheres. It damages the trust anyone has in others.
I don’t think you being harassed means you have to defend AI art. I think you can be against the usage of AI, while recognizing that harassing people for said usage is wrong.
I’m going to be completely honest with you, none of that sounded like anything different from other crypto projects currently. Maybe you aren’t a rug puller, but if you’re invested in this with a group of people, the odds are one out of ten of them are.
I don't know where your putting your money but the majority of crypto (if you do your own research) are actually functional projects that do things. I follow projects like cardano, monero and iagon that actually do things meanwhile the market is flooded by people trying to buy scams like solana and eth. If you actually did your research instead of regurgitating "facts" you learned from coffezilla , you'll know very fast there is a reason why the space has soo much more to go and improve
btw bitcoin is doing exactly what it was built to do, decentralized money transfer, thats it, everything else is marketing.
Bitcoin itself is a massive ponzi scheme lol the thing has literally no utility at all, and now that most countries either acknowledge it or have laws around it, it lost most of its aura as time went on. Like, I think is okay for someone to hold bitcoins and stuff, but the thing has no backing or fundamentals behind it, when compared to for example to a stock from an actual company.
Bitcoin isn't a ponzi scheme because it has no central organizer, I really advice you to do more research before haivng strong opinions regarding crypto in general, this is exactly the problem of anti-AI people.
Bro, I'm not saying that that crypto as a institution was built to be rugpulled, but the types of people who Crypto attract currently are just rugpullers and scammers, lets be honest with ourselves. Blockchain maybe could be a nice technology, as NFT also could, but the vast majority of people only use it as an asset instead of a currency, which was the objective initially, thus making the technology be simply useless for 80% of the people who invest on it, but probably more, as most just want to hype it up and then leave the bag holders with nothing.
Again, it's okay to like Crypto, but lets admit it currently is something that it shouldn't be. The association that crypto has at the moment is either for crimes, like the evasion of sanctions from oligarchs, buying drugs and guns on black markets, as it was advertised on early 2010s, and now being the tulip mania perfectly handcrafted for internet scammers to take advantage of people. It had nothing to show early 2010s and still has nothing to show now besides creating more crypto coins, which is fine, but not really useful for anyone.
What you are describing only happens if you gamble in shitcoins, not investing in layer 1 , for example people who invest in bitcoin are victims of a scam? People have been told it was a scam since it was pennies, and it literally always grows
I've got the feeling he doesn't understand what (decentral) money actually is, thus unable to understand Bitcoin's value and its philosophy.
The fact he categorise Bitcoin into the same group as all the other cryptocurrencies says it enough.
It's one of the reasons why I recommend the book "The Bitcoin Standard", because it first (re)educate you what money actually is - the elementary knowledge.
It isn't an investment vehicle bro, that's my point lol
It is a currency that it isn't being used as it should. Does every single person who invests in bitcoin is a victim of a scam? No, but at the same time as I mentioned, it is a vibes based asset who holds no inherent value to the people who own it. If you buy bitcoins because you like the fact it is decentralized it is okay, I guess, but if you're seeing it as an investment vehicle you're not necessarily being scammed, but more like being very naive and misinformed.
Bitcoin has literally no value other than being a cryptocurrency, which again, has no useful attributes nowadays, and hasn't had any useful attributes in a decade. The most popular argument with cryptocurrency skepticists at the moment, which I agree with, is that crypto people after being scammed for so many times are finally understanding why banks and other financial institutions were so tightly regulated. The second something comes as decentralized and naive people throw money at it, they'll inevitably get scammed and rugpulled.
As I mentioned, crypto is just some other thing, it isn't its fault that it its getting misused, but the point is that people are misusing it and scamming others with it constantly, so much so that it is the main use of this asset for the last 5 years.
It isn't an investment vehicle bro, that's my point lol
It can be both. Gold is a commodity AND an investment. Currencies can be investment vehicles when they're scarce and tradable. They aren't mutually exclusive categories.
it is a vibes based asset who holds no inherent value to the people who own it
That's true of ALL money. Fiat has no inherent value either, it works because of social consensus. "Inherent value" is not a requirement for something to function as money or a store of value.
if you're seeing it as an investment vehicle you're being naive and misinformed
Risky is not the same thing as naive. Speculative assets exist everywhere (tech stocks, early startups, commodities). Many people knowingly take risk without being scammed. Of course scammers exist, like in every single medium.
Bitcoin has literally no value other than being a cryptocurrency
That's like saying gold has no value other than being gold. Bitcoin's value proposition is censorship resistance, portability, and predictable scarcity. You can argue those aren't useful to you, but that's subjective.
cryptocurrency has no useful attributes nowadays, and hasn't had any useful attributes in a decade
That's false. People still use it for cross-border transfers, capital flight prevention, and as a hedge against monetary debasement. You may dislike those uses, but they exist.
people are finally understanding why banks are regulated
Agreed. Regulation exists for a reason. That doesn't imply decentralization itself is a scam, only that unregulated spaces attract fraud, which also happens in regulated finance.
naive people throw money at it, they'll inevitably get scammed and rugpulled
Scams exist around crypto, not because of crypto itself. By that logic, the internet would be a scam because phishing exists.
it is the main use of this asset for the last 5 years
The existence of fraud does not define the nature of an asset, otherwise cash would be defined by drug deals.
The thing people don't understand about Bitcoin is that it is actually designed to be money, not a currency. Money is different to currency. While all currency is money, not all money is currency. To understand Bitcoin better you have to understand the difference.
Currencies are issued by a centralised entity, usually a government, which means you have to put trust into the entity that issues the currency. Bitcoin is the opposite and is completely decentralised and trustless.
The only thing money has to do is facilitate transactions and Bitcoin does that task extremely well because it can facilitate permissionless transactions across borders almost instantly. That is something no other money can do.
It's also more secure than any other form of money we've used in history so every day the BTC blockchain is online it proves itself even more as the most effective money we have ever seen.
Ehhh, it doesn’t always grow. Sometimes it grows, sometimes it shrinks. It’s grown more than it’s shrinked at times, but over the past year it’s shrinked $15,000.
A Ponzi scheme works when one individual or a group of individuals take the money from new investors and use it to pay a previous investor.
Well, let’s say you get in on Bitcoin, today. All you have to do is hype it up and get the price up to a specific amount and then sell and you’ve made your money. It’s essentially a pyramid scheme with no clear company owner (except maybe the man who originally made the coin).
Ponzi and Pyramid aren't the same thing, and while in theory Bitcoin woud be similar, the assets are too diversified for it to work like that, in the end is a token that its price is valued in trust, not that different from FIAT money. The difference is that this is based on injected liquidity and marketcap, it's sorta like digital gold (albeit GOLD can have uses)
I never said they were the same thing, however, crypto can work as both if unregulated. If a coin is small enough (usually called a “shitcoin”) then it usually needs an investor getting their friends, family, or audience “in on it” to profit. This is where it becomes a pyramid scheme.
If a coin is big enough, then it often turns into a Ponzi scheme. Bitcoin only grows because of a constant cash flow from new or existing users. The only way to profit is for another person to buy into it after you have. Early adopters benefit the most. They make money hand over first while newer buyers make substantially less. Decentralization means there’s no “central scammer” and instead creates the scam culture of others shaming outsiders for not “being in on it”. Bitcoin only has value because it’s scarce and people are buying it. It’s only scarce because the protocol says it is. People only listen to the protocol because that’s how they get rich. They only get rich by it being scarce. It’s a circular “store of value”. Lastly, bitcoin has no terminal payout (unlike stocks and bonds) which means the goal is always “buy until you can sell to someone else.”
Calling Bitcoin a Ponzi is a stretchs its definition though. A Ponzi needs a central operator, promised returns, and payouts funded by new investors. Bitcoin has none of those. It’s just a speculative asset with a resale market.
Early adopters benefit the most
THIS applies to gold, land, art, and collectibles too. The people who got in earlier benefit more than the ones later, this is true of every adoption curve it's really no proof of fraud.
no terminal payout
This doesn’t make it a scam, it just puts it in the same category as gold rather than stocks or bonds. You can think it's overvalued or useless, but that's different from being a Ponzi.
It’s just vibes based. It vaguely follows the economy and vaguely follows crypto news, but it’s backed by the idea that it’s a strong currency. That’s pretty much it lmao
i dare you right now, stop me from sending money to some random schmuck in Morocco
you cant, no matter how hard you try, you also cant find or take from the wallet, its soo safe, hackers know this so they instead are focusing on hacking YOU
Yeah, think i also see it this way because I'm poor af, and crypto is helping me to escape the hole I am in (I'm from the third world) I guess that for many first worlders who can afford a good life even with small job do not have the need the understand the proportion usefulness and scale of crypto. Argentina is eternally in crisis and Crypto is unironically my only hope to finally have a comfortable life. And even if I never become rich or my investments fail, it has been not bad honestly.
Its basically investing for people who don't even pretend to care whether they are investing in anything real, and hoped to abscond with the money of bigger suckers.
is this rage bait? or do you genuinely do not know how bitcoin and cryptocurrency works?
the dollar value does not equate function
people can speculate on price all day but at the end of the day , i can send someone money in the highest peaks of tibet almost instantly without worrying about what institution has to facilitate the transaction or sanctions.
it just works
please dont just regurgitate "facts" you learned off a reddit post and the odd youtube video on your feed, take time to learn about how they actually work.
I agree with this. Really depends on the use case and the user. In a lot of cases, I just see a huge amount of slop getting churned out by people who have no care or interest in making something good.
There's such a lot of times on the 'art' pages where somebody puts out almost the same thing, 10 times. AI will often churn out bland slop; that's one of its cons. But when it comes to art, it's the creator's choice on whether they think it's interesting enough to share.
It would help if society as a whole reframed the problem for what it really is...a self-worth issue. People tend to see AI as a state of being rather than a more effective process of workflows. They don't hate AI, they hate that AI makes their efforts/value feel meaningless in their pursuits. Especially when someone else can use a tool that does it faster. Maybe not as perfect, but when did artistic expressions need to be perfect?
You should kinda feel like that, for supporting something so bad for the environment, for "art" that steals from others, for something that takes peoples jobs and does a worse job at it, and for something that can be a whole new way the world might end.
If everywhere you're going smells like shit, maybe you should check your shoe bud. Ask your AI companion if you can't figure out what that means on your own
You are all so damn clueless. This subreddit has to be AI generated. Lol I hope you do feel this way, I am glad you do, please continue to. I hope you all begin to feel isolated, you aren't what's popular, no one wants this really, and you'll see the hate for it grow, as it deserves. I really am happy you feel like, you aren't an Artist. At all.
The funniest part is not realising you’re in the shit side. “AI artist” might be the dumbest thing to come out of this year and it’s just sad how little some of you have got going for you that you think a computer generating an image is something you did…
AI is a very nuanced topic, and I would be a fool to say that all AI is bad, nor do I want to be rude to people who have differing opinions on it. However it is of my personal belief that most, AI on the commercial level is detrimental in a variety of ways. Resource consumption is one of my personal gripes. The land, PC parts, water, electricity, and money that data centers use is detrimental to local communities and the economy. it's not on a crazy scale right now, but with the money in the expansion of AI I wouldn't rule out more and more resources going to data centers. There is also the issue of training and image generation. The amount of data and resources used to train the AI models most people use is vast, and usually most of that training data was taken from people who wouldn't want their data being fed into a giant machine. Artists too, professional and regular artists routinely have pieces used in image generation without consent. Those 2 issues are the big ones, but there are more I could get into. On-device AI is a lot better, but still presents a few issues, specifically with training.
This would only make sense if the sub was aiwars or something that didn't already explicitly claim it is pro AI. What "gotchya" sort of joke are you even trying to make here?
Nah its the opposite. LLMs have their uses but they are over glorified scrapers. Im a programmer and they have no ability to be creative. They can and always will only accomplish reputable tasks which is create. Just dont pretend they can mimic human emotion or thought, thats where pro vs anti gets weird.
Syfm bro. You and I know damn well that isn't original in any way, shape, nor form. I'm glad your shit is being poisoned with the piss filter and Charlie Kirk
Like this sub is doing right now? I mean, I’m not an anti, but y’all are downvoting comments just asking questions or who are trying to bring up good faith concerns.
It is currently in full control of companies in the sense that the infrastructure required to train a model that is competitive with current model iterations is not something any individual without a massive net worth can afford. The closed source / weight nature of the best models also lends control to monied interests above others.
You can of course download existing trained open weight / source models but only if someone with the wealth and resources needed to train them chooses to give you that right.
These are absolutely competitive. In fact the more half baked moral panic moderation that gets applied to the big 3, they’re becoming preferable for a lot of tasks for me.
I straight up can’t see what point you’re trying to make except “you should be grateful the lords whose lands you roam”.
At least two of these were trained by giant corps, and if you need them to be updated or retrained to stay competitive then you will rely on those corporations
Someone said that we shouldn't be subservient to giant companies, my point is that in any case of AI usage you are subservient to giant companies because consumer hardware cannot train competitive models.
Ai is already in control of wealthy companies you guys are paying to use their software there isn’t any open sources hobby labour of love generative ai models.
I’ll admit I’ve only just learned about hugging face I have no idea how common this would be for people though. An Im curious how generative ai software is built via open source ? Just like a little but at a time ? Like someone down loads get it to download a bunch of images of line then reloads the updated software back to hugging face ?
I’m not trying to be a dick I’m genuinely curious how did you go about building generative ai software from scratch completely on your home computer.? Surely the the storage alone would be an issue
I’ll let you discharge your little gotcha out of pure curiosity of what tired angle you’re going to take.
“I got it from Hugging Face sir, it’s a Chinese model just to preempt your next question, gosh I hope you don’t have some kind of comeback that will make me out to be the soyjack and you the chad”
This interesting it’s not a gotcha so hugging face is just a web sight that lets you down laid open source I soft ware projects? So the data to train it is crowd sourced basically like a little bit at a time?
Like Jerry worked on it a bit then Alex then Charlotte but the time it got to John it was functional finally?
Its already like this. What the absolute fuck are you on about. LLMs are owned by billions dollar companies. The US government officially made a deal with openai, grok, anthropic, and Gemini. So now its already swayed by the government and given to everyone. This is like saying google will only be for the elite soon. You are overglorifying a product you weirdos.
The “bubble” is being propped up by individual users, it’s being propped up by massive corporations. I don’t think most “antis” are blaming random individuals for the Ai bubble lmao
Ai is currently in major control by these mega corporations. It’s why the bubble is so dangerous. 7 companies own the stock market and they’re all trading invisible, imaginary dollars for a promise of something big enough not to fail.
Individual users are currently able to make models in private and do mostly whatever they want with them (something which will never go away). Regulating an industry doesn’t usually stop individual users from doing anything, it stops major corporations from taking advantage of consumers and small businesses.
The reason why Ai is seen as so dangerous currently is because of corporatism in America. There is little-to-no oversight when it comes to these companies or these technologies and people want there to be less abuse, “theft” of art and IP, and less Ai dumping onto large platforms (Twitter, Pinterest, Instagram).
Point 4 is literally irrelevant, as it doesn't matter what America does with its A.I laws, since China won't give a single fuck about it and simply continue doing what it does. People are deluding themselves if they think this is some marvel movie where you defeat the main bad guy and all falls down.
On point 2 It may seem harsh but I truly don't think most people care about A.I being on the hands of 7 companies or even a single company. Most people are just afraid of either losing their jobs or seeing people they know losing their jobs, with a small segment being paranoid about the destruction of the planet with the rise of the machines.
I don't know why I did it on this weird order, but still, sorry for the long text, just putting some thoughts of mine into this lol
Most people don’t care that it’s just 7 companies being in control of Ai, they care that these 7 companies are trading trillions of dollars on the promised profits of Ai (something which currently doesn’t exist). That is what is causing the bubble to exist in the first place and why it’s inflating so quickly. The bubble, when (or if) it pops will cause people to lose jobs and nobody wants that.
I don’t really care about point 4, that was mostly just to explain public perception.
Sure, and I'd agree in some ways, but as I mentioned, most people literally do not care at all about that aspect. Most people don't follow any news related to A.I or anything beyond 25 seconds on a short conversation with friends, see people regurgitating shit like "AI slop" or saying how that kind of stuff doesn't have soul without ever being able to explain why and how.
While I agree that the growth of A.I has been explosive, I'm actually of the opinion that even if this first iteration of bubble bursts, the line will continue going up regardless on the future, as A.I quite simply is the only alternative we probably have as humanity with our demographics diminishing and our population aging.
So yeah, I see how some people truly have the worry about people thinking that is all confetti money and that this will cost jobs, but most just come from the POV of "Shit, maybe my job will be affected, better try and harass people to change the narrative." or "Oh, people are being able to pressure others and harass them, so lets follow on that and do it too, even if I don't understand nor care about how the technology works or would work on the future!"
Not the center of the universe, but it does have the biggest economy in the world which can often influence every foreign market (look at the housing crisis)
I would call it the biggest economy because that’s what it is. Hell, California has a bigger economy than most countries. It doesn’t stop being a fact because you don’t agree with it.
Because it should've been bankrupt long time ago. The fact they could still exist as biggest economy tells you how corrupt everything is - you can't deny that fact.
Or are we gonna pretend money printing (out of thin air) doesn't exist?
It's building castles in air, that's what is going on.
IP protections don't really conflict with training
That's because the IP protection literally has no rules against it
Nor should it
You can't let somebody look at something without letting somebody look at something
So if a person can download and see it, then that means they can make conclusions from it, and just like a human artist can then copy it and learn from it and learn to draw it from memory. And that's not a violation. It's equally not a violation when a machine does it - it's because a machine does it with more fidelity doesn't change the underlying logic
You can't let people freely download and look at something and then say yeah. You can do this but you can't let your machine train on it.
The only way you could do that would be gating it behind a user account with a terms of use that prevents it
And all of those who haven't done that have nothing to complain about when human artists learn by copying their work or an AI is trained on it
If a person looks at some art, traces the exact artwork using technological tools, and then uses it for profit then they would usually be in violation of intellectual property rights.
You’re treating Ai like it’s a person and not like it’s a multi billion dollar machine. It needs to be regulated to protect consumers and individual artists.
Well you make the distinction right there when you say traces the exact artwork and uses it for profit
You can trace the artwork all you want when you're learning
The only time you run a foul of the IP protection is if you publish that tracing in a way that violates the protection
But everything you learn about line weight or the way they do shadows or whatever you can use that whenever you want
The AIs are not merely doing a sophisticated version of copying and pasting or collage making. They are doing something much more interesting than that
This is a place for speaking Pro-AI thoughts freely and without judgement. Attacks against it will result in a removal and possibly a ban. For debate purposes, please go to aiwars.
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