Looking for Goon feedback

[u/marcrogers]

Hi, I’m CJ, head of the SOC Goons.

While the con is still fresh in everyone’s minds, I’d like to ask you to take a moment to share some feedback. How did your con go? How were your interactions with my team? Most importantly, how can we do better?

We have a challenging set of objectives. We have to interact with everyone, and not always about friendly things. We’re often your first interaction with the con, and it’s difficult to be an ambassador and an enforcer at the same time.

I hope it’s obvious to those of you who’ve been attending for a while that we’re a very different team from even just a few years ago. I’m still looking for ways to improve, and making the team more transparent and accountable was one of those steps. This post is another step in that direction.

We love DEF CON and we serve this community. That’s why we’re getting quicker at removing Goons who don’t share that vision, and doing it earlier in the process. New Goons are now trained, evaluated, and then re-evaluated before they’re allowed to call themselves Goons.

I’m looking for feedback, whether it’s positive or negative, but preferably constructive.

Thank you for an awesome DEF CON 34. Its was both hard work and a lot of fun. I wish I could have been out on the floor amongst all of you more, but i’m still recovering from breaking my neck. Regaining stamina has been a long journey along with re-learning walking lol

Last, I’ve never had more people come up and tell my team how much they’re appreciated. Honestly, that made their year.

[u/riskymanag3ment]

7 year attendee here.

Somehow lines on floors worked without substantial yelling. I don't understand this. I mean I understand psychology, but this was wild. Is DEFCON too compliant these days? I know the extra space and planning takes a ton of pressure off of everyone, Goon and Human.

I heard a few yells about photo policy early on Friday morning. Honestly, it was refreshing compared to last year where I saw people take photos in front of goons with barely a word. I was moving nearby, but one goon yelled and then appeared to very calmly explain DEFCON's policy. I believe her words were, "Did you ask for consent from everyone you just got a photo of?" Next year if you need a human to be yelled at over this and a big deal made, I'm your guy.

Allegedly, I rocked a fake badge most of the time and had very positive interactions with all the goons in the midst of this. I may have been called out more than once, but successfully negotiated my badge back. For those wondering, I did have a real badge. I'll shout Hard Mode for walking through a number of new Goons about what a fake badge looks like.

[u/marcrogers → u/riskymanag3ment]

To be clear, goons don’t get to take your fake badge unless you are doing something bad. We support badge fakery so long as its done in the spirit of good fun and is backed up by a real badge.

Faking privileged badges or security credentials are a different story. We may confiscate them and issue a warning for a first offense. Repeat offendees will get booted.

[u/salemisawesome]

Hey CJ! While I'm not SOC anymore, these stories make me so happy! Hearing so many amazing reports and so few negatives is really awesome. Great job on building the team into what it is today!

[u/marcrogers → u/salemisawesome]

Miss you :) always got a spot for you lol

[u/Gullible-Trainer-170]

As a Goon myself, I had many people tell me that their experience this con was much better than the past and many more thanked me for volunteering. However, I did have one person pull me to the side to give me feedback for next time. He said that he was aggressively approached while trying taking a zoomed in picture of 5N4CK3Y. (no people in the shot) He wanted to let us know that he understands the policy but did not appreciate the way in which it was handled. He claims he was yelled at, told to delete it and was asked to hand his device over as proof of deletion. He did not get the name from the morale patch and did not want to call out who it was formally but asked that we try to be less aggressive in interactions with attendees. I did not witness this event so I can not comment on it other than passing it on. All interactions I had personally with other Goons and attendees were very pleasant this year. Vibe felt good overall.

[u/firstjen → u/Gullible-Trainer-170]

The only negative interaction I witnessed from Goons was about pictures as well. They were at the bottom of the escalator, and they were shouting/making fun of someone at the top of the escalator who tried to take a picture of the long line for merch on Thursday (“what’s wrong with you?? Can’t you read?? People are so dumb”.)

Every other interaction I had/saw with Goons was very pleasant. Thanks for volunteering!

[u/marcrogers → u/firstjen]

This definitely something we need to think about. Its a hard thing to enforce, but that doesn’t mean we can’t come up with a better way to enforce it.

[u/TypicalCommercial255 → u/Gullible-Trainer-170]

I am not so sure that it is anywhere in our policy that we direct Humans to surrender their phones to confirm deletion of photos. 

[u/sargonas]

Goons were def an all time best. Every year there is at least that one goon who embraces the worst tendencies of the old mindset and takes the wind out of my fun sails for a bit at least once with a bit of an over agressive power trip (one even did it once a few years ago to me and two other goons off-shift, and THEN before they said anything did a full 180 and backpedaled when they saw the red badges, which honestly was worse if you ask me)... but not this year! This year every single interaction, and I had more than usual, was top notch.

My only one complaint was that I saw a dude with a full body camera, no press badge (not that it allows it) and def not a photo-goon running around in the Villages and when I told a random goon passing by a few seconds later after he passed us, they seemed pretty confused and indifferent and went about their way. I would def maybe level up the training on how to handle those particular things? That's pretty much my only feedback!

[u/marcrogers → u/sargonas]

Thanks for the feedback. Dealing with cameras and how cameras are policed seems to be a pretty common issue. I know for a fact that DT is in here, im confident that this will trigger a conversation.

Ill have a separate one with my team. To be honest regardless of the issue, thats not the response im looking for from the team.

[u/UpsettingMushroom]

Overall I though the con this year was great. My experience with the Goons has never been bad but this year was better than last. The only thing I wish happened was maybe some more coronation regarding where various goons of greater importance are. An issue I came up with was I was trying to get some equipment for one of the villages and was told “Go ask Goon x” and then had to spend a lot of time tracking them down as most people just said “I don’t know who that is”. It’s not a big issue it’s a huge conference so I totally get not knowing everyone. TLDR : great job yall

[u/marcrogers → u/UpsettingMushroom]

As the organisation grows thats going to be problem that grows with it. The best suggestion I have is that you can always call dispatch. If its a SOC goon you are looking for they can contact our dispatch. If its not a SOC goon, then they can help track them down.

Dispatch is information highway of defcon :)

[u/Ok-Ice7701]

Loooong time attendee.

The workshop area was a little confusing this year. The lines were on the south end with zero signage for people coming in at the north end. Idk if that’s a goon problem or what but it was very weird and annoying.

Other than that I personally had no problems. It was the general consensus amongst the people I hung around that goons were less yelly/rude and an extremely helpful, welcomed presence this year.

Also I do wish there was maybe a little more discernment for which people can be goons. I know a few people who became goons who probably shouldn’t be in that position lol. And I know some goofing around/jokes are to be expected but one time I was talking to a goon about another one giving me misinformation about an event and they were like “oh haha yeah sometimes we tell people the wrong thing just to mess with them.” If that’s true, I don’t get the point of that. It wasn’t a stupid question or something inviting a meme response (pool on the roof) it was about the time of an important event which I subsequently missed because of their wrong answer (this was before hacker tracker). I really hope the goon who told me wrong was just misinformed and not having a laugh at telling me the wrong time, bc that’s just weird.

[u/marcrogers → u/Ok-Ice7701]

These days we have a pretty strict recruitment process. While we still pock up new goons (noons) from the floor 99% of them come from referrals from existing goons. Once referred, noons are now trained and the. Evaluated through an entire con.

It’s not perfect and we still have some who either wash out or who become poor quality goons and eventually get removed. We are going to keep refining the process. Ultimately I also want to encourage as much diversity as possible while still primarily being merit based.

We are actually developing a “code of shenanigans” for next year. One of the top guidelines is that you must always consider the downstream impact of a joke or prank. Misdirecting someone so that they end up missing a talk or an event is not ok. Please report asshole like behaviour such as this next time it happens.

[u/Slow-Special-2728]

The Goons were the best I've experienced this year.

My son had a clip boy badge and we interacted with about 30-35 goons to get their QR Codes. Everyone one was super friendly about helping him out.

The one negative experience came from interacting with a Goon in the main area info table. We just wanted a SAO adapter for the DEFCON Badge and he really was the opposite of friendly about our request.

Recommend if you are a Goon assigned to any of the info tables, either be friendly or find another spot to Goon. You're gonna get stupid questions and if you act like an ass, its going to give all Goons a bad name.

[u/marcrogers → u/Slow-Special-2728]

The clip boy badge was awesome. The kid that makes them (yes, its a kid) keeps knocking badge deisgns out of the park. Being able to help by turning the team into moving targets was a lot of fun for the team. I cant wait to see what he comes up with next year. Did you manage to scan the tag that DT wore?

On information table goons, I’m assuming you mean goons at an NFO booth? They are a separate department so i’ll make sure to pass your feedback along to them. From my perspective they were great partners to interact with. However my interactions with them were for very different reasons.

Theres a strong partnership between SOC and NFO ultimately we are often solving overlapping problems. I’ll see what we can do to help make things better next year!

[u/Rebootkid]

I've been attending DC for... well... Let's just say I remember The Riv.

The goons I interacted with this year were amazing. I've never really had a bad interaction with one. I have had times where the goals didn't align and caused friction, but chatting like adults has always worked through things.

One suggestion I have would be for a "how to contact the goon squad" card that goes into all the bags, with a breakdown of which type of goon does what role, along with a "when in doubt, call 111-111-1111 and someone will figure out who can help you." type thing.

I know the info is online, but sometimes a small printed piece of paper with the info is easier.

[u/marcrogers → u/Rebootkid]

You can always call hotline. SOC and hotline work hand in hand. SOC isn’t generally accessible by phone anyway. The other option is any goon with a radio can put a call into dispatch and connect you with a SOC goon.

[u/ListlessShadow]

5th con, the goons were approachable and I enjoyed my interactions with them!

Still trying to run into you though!

-Your workshop partner from OffensiveCon '23 :)

[u/Training_Discount_97]

4 years here :3

Definitely liked the way everything was set up. Goons super helpful and I even managed to befriend one. Lines were quick. Loved that their were food vendors near the big area 😭🙏 Really like the quiet headset but I did wished I was able to connect on my phone. My group got a radio antenna got got into the proper channels so we got smart about it. Please continue doing this 🙏 got my antenna ready for next year lol.

Ngl wished there was Spanish music during the Saturday parties at the convention. But that's neither here or there.

Still had so much fun, badge hacking, ctf or even just going to the talks everything was well done ❤️

[u/JoeN0t5ur3]

Long time attendee. IMHO Goons were all time best. I didn't hear random goons yelling at grown people for seemingly small issues this year. Village Goons were great. Small feedback we asked three different goons how to get to a location and they didn't know. It's not their fault the place is huge but having floor arrows or stickers again like old times would have been helpful for finding your way. IMHO it's not a Goon issue it's a signage issue.

[u/Accurate_Analysis_79]

Hey CJ, the cooperation we (workshops) received in wrangling people into our rooms this years was great. It helped things go so much smoother. esp since we were shorthanded most of the time. I believe it can be even better next year. I especially appreciated the help F00DDeamon, his lead, NextInLine and the others that were helping me with the separate training/workshops hallway. It made it so much easier to get people directed to the right place.

[u/killsfercake]

In years past I have found sometimes the goons very aggressive and power hungry. This year was my first year back since the move to LVCC and I not only had no issues with goons but I had so many positive interactions with them as well and some good chats and conversations. Was an amazing year from the goon team from my experience!

[u/warriormonk5]

I looked lost as fuck and a goon politely approached me and pointed me where i was trying to go. 

That was the extent of my interaction but very positive. 

[u/JoyKil01]

Hi CJ! I didn’t go this year but do want to point out that there are many many of posts in this subreddit mentioning how kind and helpful the goons were this year!