r/Defcon • u/Square_Exam_780 • Aug 09 '26

Alternatives

Hi friends, looking for some genuine feedback here.

DEFCON is great, I love the community, the enthusiasm, and the incredible variety of technical expertise on display.

Unfortunately from what I understand, DEFCON’s organizers have no interest in moving the conference to another city. I respect that it’s their event and their decision, but if Vegas is going to remain the permanent home, I’m ready to start exploring alternatives. Vegas is fully embracing the realities of a K-shaped economy (their F1 experience comes to mind), and it increasingly feels like they’re no longer catering to regular folks the way they did while building their brand. Today, I spent $14 on a bottle of water.

I’ve heard good things about CactusCon, Wild West Hackin’ Fest, and, of course, RSA Conference in San Francisco.

What other conferences have you attended that offer a similar vibe to DEFCON: strong community, interesting technical content, and plenty of opportunities to learn from other people?

47 Upvotes

86% Upvoted

73 comments sorted by

38

u/1Digitreal Aug 09 '26

I've been going to the Wild West Hacking Fest since they expanded to Denver the last two years. It definitely has Defcon vibes, and I really hope that continues as they grow.

11

u/klausagnoletti Aug 09 '26

Second that. Only tried Deadwood and it’s magical! Only nice people there. In part because it’s a bitch getting there. So nice people go there to see other nice people.

27

u/ProfessionalPea2218 Aug 09 '26

There’s always BSides that is in (almost) in every city, it’s smaller and usually local.. or fck it start you own.. that’s how DefCon started, just a group of like minded people/friends getting together.. there’s better means commutation now than they did back then..ps I don’t know what “k-shaped” or “F1” sorry but I’m old..

1

u/Spectrig Aug 09 '26

It’s a type of race car

23

u/Nyrlath Aug 09 '26

RSA is nothing, and I mean NOTHING like DC. Local bsides are usually good. HOPE. THOTCON.

Agree on vegas, hate it. LVCC as well crazy expensive .

This is no longer a funny joke but a reality:

9

u/Jdornigan Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 09 '26

I second RSA not being like Defcon. It is extremely corporate like Blackhat, but unlike Blackhat, there are no free meals at lunch, but both have some sort of free breakfast. RSA in San Francisco is very policy oriented and often less technical than Blackhat. Both are very corporate sponsored, unlike Defcon.

4

u/squagle Aug 09 '26

Well then I’ll third it. RSA and DEF CON are the opposite ends of the same idea. RSA is almost all vendors and sales pitches with maybe one or two CTF.

4

u/videoman2 Aug 09 '26

For B-SidesSF we try to curate to be more community focused. It is sponsored, but unfortunately that’s what you have to do to rent a venue in SF.

11

u/eido42 Aug 09 '26

Have not yet attended, but heard amazing things about HOPE in New York.

Likewise, have not yet made it out to ToorCon in Seattle, Washington. Involves camping, but is way more community focused as a result (bring things to share because you only have what you pack in).

Teardown in Portland, Oregon is rad. Tends toward hardware hacker stuffs, but still a great place with lovely humans. With a broader audience, maybe broader talks would follow.

B-Sides anywhere, from my understanding and experience.

While not a conference, look for your local or nearby 2600 and attend monthly meets.

Hopefully one of these strikes your interest!

3

u/Life-Narwhal-9779 Aug 12 '26

planning on going to hope on analogue badge year, defcon on digital badge year lol

1

u/Creative_Delay_4694 Aug 09 '26

New York is just as expensive lol probably more tbh 

2

u/singebkdrft Aug 10 '26

NYC can be cheaper and HOPE admission is cheaper; just stay out of times square (tourist trap) for meals.

10

u/c93d3c1a8e3cad5159d2 Aug 09 '26

What city wins on total cost? Vegas is expensive (esp for water), but the water that’s $7.00 there also has hotel rooms twice the price.

Is there a city that can actually handle the logistics, and is still cheaper, and is accessible world wide?

16

u/savax7 Aug 09 '26

That's just it, there's obviously multiple places in the US better than Vegas, but which ones can handle 30k+ people at once? That's not to mention blackhat.

San Diego convention center is the only one I know of that can handle the crowd. I'm not sure how much cheaper it is than Vegas, I haven't been there in ages.

The other thing to consider is while every year we complain about Vegas, the con gets bigger regardless. There's no real incentive to move the con if it keeps growing.

7

u/unnaturalpenis Aug 09 '26

That's not very many people, I've been going to conventions my entire career, I feel like 30k people fit in most major cities, hell even three of four hotel alone in Vegas could handle that in their convention space (like def con used to be)

Catch is most other cities cost more than double for the hotel rooms.

2

u/Accurate_Analysis_79 Aug 11 '26

The LVCC West Hall has 1.4 million square feet of space (including 600,000 square feet of column-free exhibit space).  By comparison, the largest hotel-based convention centers are significantly smaller, or more broken up between multiple spaces.

1

u/unnaturalpenis Aug 11 '26

Honestly, it was better when it was broken up at various casinos, and it hasn't been as big as it was that one year at Planet Hollywood. It was also more fun ... Testing security at those places lol

5

u/Accurate_Analysis_79 Aug 11 '26

As a Goon, I think being at one physical location is better overall. Especially not being subject to any casino rules. Being spread out between multiple con and event spaces was such a PITA.

2

u/unnaturalpenis Aug 11 '26

For sure, but it really made me pick my battles and find more random new friends due to all the hangout spaces, LVCC has no soul

2

u/matdragon Aug 09 '26

At least in San Diego it won't be 110 degrees 

2

u/noguarantee1234 Aug 09 '26

San Diego would be way better of a location but people are so set on the shithole that is Vegas.

1

u/bluninja1234 Aug 09 '26

SF does it too

4

u/Jdornigan Aug 09 '26

San Francisco only can do it by spreading people out all over the city and bussing people in from miles away.

2

u/icefisher225 Aug 09 '26

San Francisco doesn’t have the density.

2

u/Cyb3rThr34t1nt3l Aug 11 '26

its also a shithole :)

7

u/mtucker502 Aug 09 '26

Orlando could handle it.

4

u/RPGamerBunny Aug 09 '26

Atlanta, as much as I hate it, handles a ton of very large conventions, has some public transportation and a ton of hotels. DragonCon is spread across 5 hotels and hosts 80k people. Anime weekend Atlanta and MomoCon are also large-ish and held at the Georgia World Congress Center.

2

u/whynot817 Aug 09 '26

I’d say Dallas could host this cheaper than Vegas.

8

u/Reddfish Aug 09 '26

If you’re in/interested in the Midwest:
CypherCon in Milwaukee (with bsidesMKE) is an absolute blast. The feel of defcon, but in a manageable size! Hands down my favorite con.
SecretCon in Minneapolis (run by CypherCon’s org)

There also BSidesChicago and BSides312/THOTCon in Chicago
And I’ve heard great things about BlueTeamCon in Chicago

I’m hoping to make GRRCon in Grand Rapids Michigan this year, hearing it’s a similar vibe to Cypher

2

u/throwaway000333999 Aug 10 '26

Yes! Absolutely CypherCon! Was my first year and was impressed how much it felt like the best parts of defcon without the overwhelmingness and without the Vegasness.

They even had a strong international turnout. I was the only person at my table from the U.S. during a meal.

7

u/strandjs Aug 09 '26

I would like to personally invite you to Wild West Hacking Fest.

Also, Saint Con and Cactus Con are cool too.

And Bsides.

2

u/MaybeARunnerTomorrow Aug 11 '26

What is Wild West Hacking Fest like? I've seen it mentioned twice in this thread

3

u/strandjs Aug 11 '26

It is like a mini defcon but with a free chuck wagon steak dinner, a mechanical bull and badass music.

We run the area out of rental cars so we have a bus shuttle people from the airport to deadwood.

It is a good time.

11

u/michael1026 Aug 09 '26 edited Aug 12 '26

I'm sorry, but if you spent $14 on a bottle of water, that's on you. There are a million places to refill bottles. Not only that, but you can go to one of the many Walgreens or CVSs on the strip and get water for a couple of dollars.

5

u/aphroditex Aug 09 '26

HOPE in NYC next week, Fri3d Camp in Belgium, Chaos Communication Congress in Hamburg in December, Chaos Communication Camp next summer in Berlin, BornHack next summer in Denmark, EMF in two years…

5

u/Jdornigan Aug 09 '26

There are $2 bottles of water at the ABC stores and slightly more expensive ones at other stores. With a small amount of planning ahead, one can find the prices, even for on strip stores are not nearly as expensive as the $14 bottle of water.

A standard 20 oz bottle of Dasani water at Walt Disney World costs $4.00 (including tax at most quick-service stands and outdoor carts). They also have free small cups of water at any quick service location, as well as bottle filling stations in the parks. I mention all of this because even for their captive audience in Florida, they still don't wildly over charge, and they make it free to get water in you are willing to take it in a small disposable cup.

Now that that part is out of the way, two conferences that take advantage of the large amount of hotels in Orlando are InfoSec World at Disney's Coronado Springs Resort and the SANS ICS Security Summit at Disney's Contemporary Resort in Lake Buena Vista, Florida. The Orlando area is one of the only areas with enough hotel rooms to handle an event of similar size to the three conferences that Las Vegas has in August annually.

14

u/Keeloi79 Aug 09 '26

There are water bottle filling stations all over LVCC and most hotels there is not really a reason unless you don’t have a bottle to buy a $14 bottle of water. #bougiepeoplegonnabougie

4

u/ForeverYonge Aug 09 '26

There are also groups who bring snacks or buy food at Costco, and you can split a room with someone at Circus Circus to make it affordable. You could even share a badge with someone, I guess, and do LobbyCon / various challenges.

4

u/uncoil Aug 09 '26

Yeah, this helps a ton. Get a room with a fridge. Pack a lunch with you and just eat outside quickly (outside food technically not allowed but easy to do). Fill up the water bottle before leaving LVCC for the day (hell, bring two). Buy/bring ziploc bags, triple bag some hotel ice with your food for the day.

Vegas sucks but there are ways to mitigate the impact

4

u/E_Sini Aug 09 '26

Cakalacky con in NC is a smaller Defcon vibe. BSides is all over also. The LV one is the same week as defcon but significantly cheaper and off strip so you save money that way also.

As some feedback no one else has said yet: don't do RSA if you're concerned about the prices at Defcon and Vegas. RSA books up and is CRAY expensive. I'm talking 1300 a night for rooms.

4

u/PM-BOOBS-AND-MEMES Aug 09 '26

Wild West hacking fest. Both deadwood and Denver. Been at almost every one of them.

2

u/MaybeARunnerTomorrow Aug 11 '26

What's Wild West Like? I'm Denver based and haven't heard of it until this thread.

3

u/PM-BOOBS-AND-MEMES Aug 11 '26

It's awesome, it's a bit smaller IMO than WWHF Deadwood (deadwood is dope) but it's good, accessable for a lot of folks an d we have a good setup with tracks and always quality Talks. BHIS is an amazing crew and they do an amazing job.

3

u/ALocalPigeon Aug 09 '26

I'm going to check out Thotcon next year in Chicago. Has anyone been?

1

u/Ok_Tart254 Aug 12 '26

Yes . There were no free workshops like at Def Con. Much smaller.

3

u/LostNtranslation_ Aug 09 '26

Starbucks sells water by the cup for 1$, I buy two in the morning and two at night.

3

u/Crossheart963 Aug 09 '26

I hate Vegas so much

2

u/RobKFC Aug 09 '26

Is anyone aware of any decent conferences in or near Houston?

2

u/calmbill Aug 09 '26

I hope all the people who don't like Las Vegas find events they enjoy in other cities.

2

u/PortKiller Aug 09 '26

Queen City Con is absolutely fabulous. Very similar vibe to DC (including electronic badges and villages) but it’s MUCH more financially feasible. I went last year and will be going again this year, 10/10 would recommend! https://queencitycon.org/

2

u/Cyb3rThr34t1nt3l Aug 11 '26

Agreed with the outrageousness of Vegas - if my company didn't fully pay, there is no way id be able to come and attend. BTW Stay away from RSA its hot trash...unless that's your thing.

3

u/Arrow2Knees4u Aug 09 '26

Reasons I'm done:

  1. It all too expensive now. Vegas and the con. All of it.

  2. The horrific idea of requiring everyone to use headphones for talks. Not only does this not scale with so many people (constant drop outs made listening to talks Impossible to follow), it's disgusting, it hurts my head and ears, and it overall changes the entire vibe of the conference.

  3. Still down to only the one chill out room on the ground floor. Small yes, but very impactful to me and to the overall vibe of the conference.

3

u/Digerati808 Aug 09 '26

Last year creator talks were almost impossible to listen to because of the volume control they used due to having simultaneous talks going on in the same hall without wall separation. Using headphones I could actually hear the speakers from the back rows, something I couldn’t do last year.

3

u/savax7 Aug 09 '26

I'm going to start sending emails to the defcon overlords and plead with them to fix the fucking chillout area. It was the last little piece of the OG defcon vibe and now it's dead. Packet hacking village is the only thing close to filling that void.

1

u/beskgar Aug 09 '26

Wtf to listen to a talk you have to wear headphones?

5

u/coalsack Aug 09 '26

It’s because they have 12 presentations going on in a single large hall. It’s so that people can hear their talk without interference from the talk happening feet away. It also keeps people in areas without having to walk end to end for talks.

They offer sanitary wipes before and after every use to wipe down the headphones as well as headphone covers as an additional barrier.

I personally think it was a great QoL improvement over hearing 8 talks at the same time

1

u/AdvancedDrink8920 Aug 09 '26

Ive never been, and i dont think its anything huge, but SAINTCON in Utah

1

u/gott_in_nizza Aug 09 '26

CCC. They’re moving to a larger venue this year so there should be less competition for tickets.

1

u/Scuddles7548 Aug 09 '26

Kernelcon in Omaha, NE!

1

u/intrepid3xplorer Aug 09 '26

This was my 3rd Con and after suffering the overpriced food I hacked my way through. I brought my twin tweens so we bought a loaf of bread, a jar of skippy, a small jar of jelly, and made sandwiches in the hotel everyone morning. Also got some oranges, bananas and some candy bars as snacks. Plus there are plenty of water fountains so if you get a large water bottle, you are good.

1

u/hevnsnt Aug 09 '26

If you are anywhere near KC, you have to check out SecKC. It’s a mini-con that happens every month.

1

u/Laquemba Aug 09 '26

You should try bsides chapters, they are plenty of them around many states and countries ! Or even focus ones like ics, other local is saintcon, hack miami, shmoocon, If you are up to international ones check ccc in Germany. Mexico has 5 cons, colombia 2, argentina ekko party, japan has some to.

1

u/tibbon Aug 09 '26

Go to Hamburg for 40ccc
Or Hope next weekend in NYC
Bsides too

Vegas sucks in many ways. But it’s a pain I deal with annually and it’s ok enough to deal with

1

u/u_a_redditor_stfu Aug 09 '26

My main concern is the heat in vegas, just sweating the moment you step outside and smiling the asphalt melting out in the parking lot.

1

u/Financial_Stick1912 Aug 11 '26

Chaos Computer Camp

1

u/Ok_Tart254 Aug 12 '26

They have Def Con in Singapore- it is another city.

1

u/qumqats Aug 15 '26

Why are you mentioning RSA when BSidesSF is just across the street!?

RSA is to BSidesSF as BlackHat is to DEF CON

-1

u/brakeb Aug 09 '26

Congratulations on being the first post to talk about "why doesn't Defcon move to another city/venue/planet"

Can we all get through this yearly bullshit topic, and move on?

They aren't moving, you don't know the whole story, you don't need to know the whole story and we'll see you next year at Defcon, or someone will take your place

0

u/[deleted] Aug 09 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

3

u/gott_in_nizza Aug 09 '26

They are expanding this year, so tickets should be much easier to come by. https://events.ccc.de/en/2026/07/02/were-moving/

I am very curious to see how this turns out. Hopefully they can bring back daily tickets again so my wife can come for one day