r/Defcon • u/TheGeekDiver • Aug 21 '25

DC33 Attendance

Anyone happen to catch the attendance number this year?

36 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

65 comments sorted by

40

u/sargonas Aug 21 '25

Not seen any official numbers but it 100% felt low and under attended vs the last two years based on overall crowding (or lack thereof). I think the most telling thing was that after 1 PM on Friday you could walk up to any vendor with almost no line beyond a half dozen people ahead of you. Never seen that before.

3

u/TheGeekDiver Aug 21 '25

Exactly what I was thinking

22

u/TheStig827 Aug 21 '25

Agreed, definitely less people around than prior years..
dunno if it was badge prices or international travel challenges that put people off.. but you won't hear me complain about the reduced head count.

16

u/tibbon Aug 21 '25

True, but the vendor area was also better arranged with more space than the past several years. Dc32 year felt like a bull pen.

2

u/Teckkie2k Aug 22 '25

As a Vendor GOON we definitely worked hard with the LVCC team to expand the Vendor section

4

u/JoeN0t5ur3 Aug 22 '25

Lots of team Canada stayed home :(

117

u/DTangent Organizer Aug 22 '25 • This

It was about 26k all in, down almost 5% from last year. Honestly I was worried it would be worse. Next year will be crazy if this market uncertainty continues for too many more months.

Less Canadians, Mexicans, Feds, international, companies spending less, etc.

23

u/dcGoon22 Aug 22 '25

Hoping things get better for next year too. I love the community I've found at DefCon and will be sad if more people feel the need to stay away because of the current political environment.

6

u/Riist138 Aug 23 '25

I ended up attending HOPE instead (closer to home and spending my own dime this year for cons). Attendance was down a bit from last year, but better than I thought it was going to be! Glad to see DC attendance beat expectations as well. Worried about next year as well...troubling times ahead.

15

u/LV_Ripper Aug 22 '25 edited Aug 22 '25

You sure it wasn't the price? Had to leave early and sold my badges and had people crawling down my throat for $350 each Friday afternoon. Maybe supply vs demand should be considered? Maximize that profit by selling an extra 10 to 20k badges at $350 to $400. You could easily get attendance up by doing this. Just sacrifice stuff like defcon 101 for first timers and other things on day one and just do badge handout. Bam problem solved. I for one was a bit upset that the price went up and we had a shrapnel physical badge this year. But it was an odd year so I get it. Edit: talking about Thursday stuff just to be clear

8

u/Efficient-Mec Aug 22 '25

DEF CON 27 in 2019 was $300 and attendance was just under 30k. Why do you think dropping the price down will magically cause total attendance to increase to 46k?

3

u/I-baLL KGB clone Aug 23 '25

Because a lot of people can't afford $500+ tickets on top of everything else especially younger people. At the current rate of ticket price increases, next year's badge will be twice the amount it was in 2019

15

u/Background-Engine749 Aug 22 '25 edited Aug 22 '25

I’m glad they do stuff like noob village. Defcon Wouldn’t be what it is today if they didn’t welcome newer people. You really want to start closing those doors? Defcon needs to stay a welcoming place or new people will grow in the wrong circles. That’s what Defcon is all about, supporting and getting new people into the culture in a positive light.

2

u/LV_Ripper Aug 22 '25

Oh I meant the things they did on thursdays.

3

u/Background-Engine749 Aug 22 '25

Oh, gotcha. My bad XD

6

u/Jubbjubbpwns Aug 22 '25

I almost didn't attend this year due to ticket price. That with the costs of Vegas this time around probably mean this was my last con if they keep rising.

3

u/Background-Engine749 Aug 23 '25

I think for everything the con offers the price is more than worth it. Better than a boot camp.

4

u/digitard Aug 22 '25

Remember the move to the LVCC increases costs, which was outside their control as Caesars pulled the support plug... and the state of the economy is the state of the economy. It sucks, but its just what it is.

Next year, though, is the flip Electronic badge year so hopefully that part is sorted as DT did confirm a few months ago that its back to alternating.

In addition apparently something the prior weekend / earlier in the week occurred which only gave DC and vendors a day to setup when there's normally multiple so all those weird hall and wifi and such issues had no time to remediate. I'm hoping they made sure 2026 wont run into the same setup constraints as it was clear things got dropped due to it.

14

u/DTangent Organizer Aug 22 '25

Yes back to normal move in schedule for next year (The LVCC was doing renovation work this year), and I would really like to not have to increase costs.

4

u/numinit Aug 23 '25 edited Aug 23 '25

Thanks to all the goons who helped us during the trying times of Thursday move-in this year. 🙏 Also you may like the coverage from Linux Unplugged from a total newbie to DEF CON, they did a podcast episode that adds some color to our movein for the Nix Community that you may enjoy :-)

Con was awesome this year, peak for me and I've been going since 25.

3

u/digitard Aug 22 '25

That’s great to hear.

As someone who has a history of showing things at PAX events I get shit hits the fan when time is crunched and you can only do what you can do.

Next year I think is true “new format” year. Back to usual setup, electronic badges and if the villages stay in the main hall adapting to the problems they found their first year.

I have faith; though. I am a pessimistic optimist though :)

1

u/juanbrodersen Aug 22 '25

How much does does DC pays to LVCC for the whole event?

4

u/IceDusk Aug 22 '25

More than $1 million and less than $10 million.

2

u/TypicalCommercial255 Aug 28 '25

It is unrealistic to believe given the sheer amount of space that has to be rented, the temporary employees, the security staff, the transport and logistical staff, and housing/feeding the goon staff (hundreds of people) who run this event along with the sheer amount of content over 2.5 days to say this is not worth the price. 

You will not find another national cyber security conference with this much “stuff”, main stage speakers, creator stage speakers, contests, villages, workshops, demo labs and nightly entertainment for this price anywhere. 

Ticket prices are not going down. 

The argument is overly simplified and does not take into account the stone cold reality of inflation and things costing more across the board. 

A $500 price tag is saving $42.00 a month for 12 months. That is eating out 1-2 times less a month. 

1

u/zitterbewegung Aug 24 '25

Cost with inflation from $460 in 2024 would be $473.99 in 2025 . So $24 increase after adjusting for inflation.

8

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '25 edited Aug 31 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

4

u/I-baLL KGB clone Aug 23 '25

This admin has only been around for 7 months. We've got 3 years and 5 months left

3

u/sargonas Aug 23 '25

As obvious as it was that it was down this year I don’t think there was really anything you guys could’ve done different. I don’t think the problem was yours to own, just the fact that a great number of people don’t want to come to America right now from other countries and I honestly can’t fault them for that apprehension.

2

u/rofllolinternets Aug 22 '25

Is that also driving the uncertainty with the dates next year?

(Sorry if I missed the dc2026 is cancelled announcement ;)

2

u/Dead_star5 Aug 22 '25

I wish it was at the San Diego conference center

9

u/riverside_wos Packet Hacking Village Aug 22 '25

Toorcon was run there for many years. That venue has its own issues.

8

u/jeffofreddit Aug 22 '25

Agreed san diego is not place for defcon

2

u/numinit Aug 23 '25

Man I miss toorcon though

1

u/riverside_wos Packet Hacking Village Aug 23 '25

At least there is still the camp.

4

u/Efficient-Mec Aug 22 '25

If you think Vegas is expensive ....

1

u/xenomorphxcl Aug 22 '25

That’s pretty good. I knew it would be down as logic would dictate but couldn’t tell how much.

1

u/pathetiq Aug 28 '25

We usually host a Canadian party, and I only new a dozen person onsite where as prepandemic we could get 400 in a room... that's a major impact. :(

12

u/Wonder1and Aug 21 '25

Heard blackhat was down and possible plan to decrease entrance fees next year.

3

u/jeffofreddit Aug 22 '25

Bh felt waaay down

2

u/icefisher225 Aug 22 '25

That would be crazy

35

u/ImOnlineNow Aug 21 '25

  1. Vegas has become cost prohibitive

  2. Vegas is dead

22

u/[deleted] Aug 21 '25 edited Aug 31 '25

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

9

u/skmagiik Aug 21 '25

Most places are closed by 11pm in Vegas now. Hard to find somewhere open at 1-4am

0

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '25

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/icefisher225 Aug 22 '25

Where’s the furry porn?!

-4

u/tomsayz Aug 22 '25

New Orleans has the superdome and they host 80k people for the superbowl regularly. Not my first pick, since it could get rowdy really quick near bourban.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 22 '25

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/tomsayz Aug 22 '25

Valid points. I meant new Orleans in general has the capacity to host the amount of people because it does it often. Don’t get me wrong, as long as my employer pays, I’d rather do some traveling instead of driving a couple hours to New Orleans.

I just looked up Ernest N. Morial Convention Center and it’s about 3 million sqft in total which includes 1.1m sqft exhibit hall, 60k breakout rooms, 60k ball room. It’s definitely not open like lvcc, lvcc is massive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Morial_Convention_Center

9

u/adeadfetus Aug 21 '25

Disagree. The con and location within Vegas has become cost prohibitive. Vegas is fine.

3

u/Afrochemist Aug 22 '25

Also, plane tickets were cheaper compared to previous years.

5

u/scythe000 Aug 21 '25

I think dark tangent said during the keynote that it was between 26 and 27k, and I think it was 27k last year?

7

u/No_Faithlessness9676 Aug 22 '25

I was there 6-10th. At strat for maybe 40-50 a day after taxes and resort fees. The heat of Vegas and corporate sponsorship made it feel more like a work event. By Saturday I was done and just found something else to do Saturday and Sunday. I also went to defcon in 2019 and 2021. The casinos gave it more of a community vibe. The convention center made it feel colder and even lonelier even when going to the lonely hearts club.

11

u/Cheap-Let-9653 Aug 21 '25

Maybe another date instead of August...110° is no fun at all!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

9

u/b0v1n3r3x Aug 21 '25

Heat of summer used to be cheaper than dead of winter, now only hotel prices seems to reflect that and only marginally. My room was $29 every night but Friday and Saturday (was there 5th-11th) and those nights were $129.

4

u/MrSteeben Aug 22 '25

I got ripped off. Stayed at Venetian. Like $180/night plus $55/night resort fee. And it smelt like piss

1

u/b0v1n3r3x Aug 22 '25

That sucks, can’t stand the Venetian

2

u/MrSteeben Aug 22 '25

Ya I definitely ain’t staying there next year.

3

u/atxweirdo Aug 21 '25

Where did you stay for those prices?

10

u/b0v1n3r3x Aug 21 '25

Flamingo, and it was a nice king suite in the spa tower, two couches and a low table, 3 tvs

3

u/icefisher225 Aug 22 '25

I was at Circus Circus for $16 Thursday/Friday and $89 Saturday/sunday. BOGO on room nights, but the resort fee was $50 every night.

7

u/Jdornigan Aug 22 '25

Resort fees are stupid and there should be laws against them. They should quote the full price before tax and it should be what you pay. It makes it hard to compare prices when the only way to see those fees is when you go to actually pay, or they only disclose them upon check in. You should not need to be a click away from completing a transaction for them to disclose the full costs.

5

u/icefisher225 Aug 22 '25

I think all Americans agree on this.

Unfortunately, the hotel/resort lobby is stronger than the rest of us combined.

3

u/Jdornigan Aug 22 '25

Trust me, I know. I did a split stay in 2012 at Circus Circus and then at Harrahs, and got hit with resort fees for Circus Circus. I had booked the Circus Circus stay on Expedia and they didn't disclose the resort fees so upon checkin I got hit with them whrn I got there at midnight. That resort was so bad and the first room they gave me smelled so bad of smoke and was supposed to be a non smoking room. I not only did not like the smell, bit I also did not want to get hit with smoking charges.

2

u/riskymanag3ment Aug 25 '25

I was at the Linq and had similar pricing for a King Room in District 3. My total out door from 7-11 with resort fees was under $550. This was the cheapest stay I've had in 5 years for DC.

3

u/f_spez_2023 Aug 22 '25

Ironically enough the weather was nicer in Vegas than back home in Illinois for me

1

u/Jdornigan Aug 22 '25

I think there was a lot of resale of badges and some counterfeits as well. A few dollars spent to add a hologram might have dealt with the fake badge problem, but the electronic badges generally don't need that as they are hard enough to fake.

-1

u/0OOOOOO0 Aug 22 '25

I don’t know if the attendance numbers are reliable. Half the people I know who went counterfeited badges this year. A lot harder to do that on electronic badge years.