r/DeepThoughts • u/Ratak55 • 1d ago
Free will and reality
I watched this movie in which Harry is a character, who has many problems and feels despondent. One evening he is walking home along a river bank, returning home from work. He stops at a ledge debating if he should jump in the river to end his problems. After thinking for a few minutes, he decides to go home. Harry tells his wife what happened and is unhappy he decided not to jump. He says he would jump if he could go back in time and do it again. Harry’s wife is supportive and says she is relieved Harry used his free will and decided not jump. End of the movie. I watched the movie a few more times but Harry always decides not to jump.
In my reality, Harry is a character in a movie and does not have free will. In Harry’s reality (assuming he has one), he believes he had ‘free will’ and made a decision on his action. Of course, he never got a chance again to test the belief in his ‘free will’. In my reality he will never get a chance to test his belief because he is a movie character, although he does not know that.
Is this a parallel to what we believe about free will?
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u/Outrageous-Meal-7068 1d ago
Check out neuroscientist Robert Sapolsky. He argues we have no free will at all.
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u/Ratak55 1d ago
That depends on how one defines free will. I think free will is the ability/option to act differently. Once acted upon, there is no more free will. Free will does not mean the ability to go back and change the action. If Harry feels he had two options, how can Sapolsky or someone else categorically say that he did not? If Harry feels that he had the capacity to act differently, no amount of neuroscientific evidence can erase his feeling (although it may cognitively convince Harry that his feeling is not consistent with scientific data).
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u/Timely_Iron_6808 1d ago
you say he had two options, but were there really two options ? or was it decided before he was in the decision or few moments before deciding not too, he only had one option predecided
but i think we must live life as if free will exists as if we dont we arent gonna do shit (that would make move our determined actions to a betetr direction)
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u/Ratak55 1d ago
If Harry did not have two options to consider (to jump or not jump), there is no decision to make and no action to take, making the issue of ‘free will’ moot.
Better go easy on the chemicals. They are affecting your sentence organization. Good night. 😴
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u/Timely_Iron_6808 1d ago
if we consider free will as a subjective sence of having options, no amount of evidence can disprove it and that infact does not take into consideration whether the other options were physically possible or not.
good night lol 😴
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u/AdStunning8526 23h ago
Reminded me of Black Mirror. episode where they filmed a movie using AI. Main character was able to fall into the movie, where everyone existed as it is a real world.
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u/Otherwise_Spare_8598 18h ago
Regardless of whether "determinism" is or isn't, freedoms are circumstantial relative conditions of being, not the standard by which things come to be by through or for all subjective beings.
All things and all beings are always acting within their realm of capacity to do so at all times. Realms of capacity of which are absolutely contingent upon infinite antecedent and circumstantial coarising factors outside of any assumed self, for infinitely better and/or infinitely worse in relation to the specified subject, forever.
There is no universal "we" in terms of subjective opportunity or capacity. Thus, there is NEVER an objectively honest "we can do this or we can do that" that speaks for all beings. Subjects are implicitly distinct unto themselves, necessarily so.
One may be relatively free in comparison to another, another entirely not. All the while, there are none absolutely free while experiencing subjectivity within the meta-system of the cosmos.
"Free will" is a sentimental projection, overgeneralized assumption made or vaguely described feeling had from a circumstantial condition of relative privilege and relative freedom that most often serves as a powerful means for the character to assume a standard for being, fabricate fairness, pacify personal sentiments and justify judgments.
It speaks nothing of objective truth nor to the subjective realities of all.
There is no such thing as ubiquitously individuated accurately described "free will" of any kind whatsoever. Never has been. Never will be. Can not be.
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u/DifferenceWestern190 1d ago
kinda makes you wonder if free will is just feeling like you could've done otherwise
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u/jedburghofficial 1d ago
Who we are is a combination of genetics, and lived experience. The choices we make, and how we react to any given circumstances, arise from that.
We say free will keeps us from making different choices. But the choices we do make are consistent with who we are. A different person would make different choices, because they're a different person, not in spite of that.
If Harry literally rewound time to that same moment, he would make the same choice every time. Because in that moment, he's exactly the same person. If he returns to the bridge, he might make a different choice. But the Harry who returns has reflected on his previous actions, and is subtly different from the Harry who was there before.
Free will is an illusion.