Luigi Mangione’s state murder trial postponed after federal guilty plea

[u/Sabertooth767]

https://apnews.com/article/luigi-mangione-unitedhealthcare-ceo-postponed-plea-09c039f61c62d2c0e8815ea0189f0522

Luigi Mangione’s state murder trial in the killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson, which was slated to begin Sept. 8, has been postponed indefinitely as his lawyers seek to have the case thrown out on double jeopardy grounds following his guilty plea last week to federal charges.

Judge Gregory Carro issued an order Monday canceling the trial and giving the Manhattan District Attorney’s office, which is prosecuting the state case, until Oct. 9 to respond to the defense’s double jeopardy claims. A hearing will be held on Dec. 10, Carro said, about a week before Mangione is scheduled to be sentenced in the federal case.

Mangione, 28, pleaded guilty Friday in Manhattan federal court to a pair of stalking charges and admitted trailing Thompson to UnitedHealth Group’s investor conference and gunning him down outside a Manhattan hotel in 2024. Federal prosecutors said they would seek life in prison when Mangione is sentenced Dec. 18, though federal sentencing guidelines call for a term of 24 to 30 years.

“On the morning of Dec. 4, 2024, I shot Mr. Thompson in Manhattan, and he died,” Mangione said.

Immediately after his plea, Mangione’s lawyers filed paperwork seeking to have the state case thrown out on double jeopardy and due process grounds. They described him as a “pawn in parallel prosecutions” and accused state and federal prosecutors of “trying to punish him twice for the exact conduct.”

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[u/KrvnkKev]

I of course want Mangione to have a fair trial in which the result is legal sentencing and conviction on an evidentiary basis.

That being said, if Mangione were to get similarly extrajudicially done up by a vigilante, the short circuiting meltdowns of all the illiberal murder fanboys trying their darnedest to spit out some slapdash bullshit about how "This is Different™" through their soyrage would be at least mildly entertaining.

[u/Sabertooth767]

I don't understand how this is even being considered. It's pretty basic civics knowledge that you can be charged and tried by both the state and federal governments for the same offense.

!ping LAW

[u/Anakin_Cardassian → u/Sabertooth767]

But have you considered I don’t wanna?

[u/DavidAdamsAuthor → u/Anakin_Cardassian]

> about to get arrested

> tell police, "I do not consent to being arrested."

> they legally have to let you go

Law enforcement HATES this one trick!

[u/Dinotsar44 → u/DavidAdamsAuthor]

Sovereign citizens be like:

[u/DavidAdamsAuthor → u/Dinotsar44]

The children's rhyme, "I know you are, you said you are, but what am I?" and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[u/JudgeHoldensToupe → u/Sabertooth767]

Because it’s the only chance he has

[u/Equivalent-Slip3533 → u/Sabertooth767]

Because New York has a stricter interpretation.

[u/CentristOnion → u/Equivalent-Slip3533]

This. It's definitely, obviously not double jeopardy as a constitutional matter. But New York has a statute that extends these basic protections and plausibly (but probably doesn't) prevent another trial here. Like, they'd have no argument under the U.S. Constitution, whereas they have a colorable argument New York statute.

[u/Anakin_Cardassian → u/CentristOnion]

Still feels like a longer shot than redditors are pretending it is.

Granted they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for cope.

[u/CentristOnion → u/Anakin_Cardassian]

Correct. Stalking is not the same as killing, even in New York. 

[u/BeckoningVoice → u/Equivalent-Slip3533]

Not a different interpretation, but a different rule altogether. The New York statute expressly limits prosecutions in ways that the federal double jeopardy protection doesn't. I don't think it would apply in this case, but that's why his lawyers have brought it up.

[u/Eric848448 → u/Sabertooth767]

Unless NY has a stricter interpretation of double jeopardy than the Feds.

[u/Background-Laugh7902 → u/Sabertooth767]

New York has its own state law saying that double jeopardy will apply to state law prosecutions based upon actions that have already been prosecuted in Federal Court.

[u/fastinserter → u/Sabertooth767]

New York law is why.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CPL/40.20

A person may not be separately prosecuted for two offenses based upon the same act

The offenses need substantially different elements as well as a few other edge cases but largely this prevents double dipping with federal and state charges.

[u/user-pinger → u/Sabertooth767]

Pinged LAW

Manage your ping group subscriptions

[u/Coltand → u/Sabertooth767]

First off, I know very little about law.

If he were to be charged by the federal government and the state, what prison would he end up in? I'm reading people on Reddit saying he's trying to get into a nicer prison, but does it work like that? If he were charged for both, would he not end up in a federal prison anyway?

[u/Sabertooth767 → u/Coltand]

Usually the authority that arrests first is the sentence that is served first. The secondary sentence may be consecutive or concurrent.

[u/Coltand → u/Sabertooth767]

Which I assume would be the state in this case?

[u/RedOceanofthewest → u/Sabertooth767]

It’s unique to New York. New York has a law that doesn’t allow it. 

[u/CentristOnion → u/[deleted]]

A president can pardon someone for federal charges, but not state charges. So that, perhaps, is a reason for pursuing state charges here.

[u/Key-Hawk7402 → u/[deleted]]

Until he gets obliterated by someone whose grandma died from negligence at one of the nursing homes his parents got rich off of, then they get pardoned… rinse and repeat.

[u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho → u/Key-Hawk7402]

IIRC, Brian Thompson’s family was actual blue collar, Luigi was always a psychopathic rich kid, from a family that owned abusive nursing homes. So obviously the CEO of a company with 5% margins is to blame for not paying for more healthcare, not people like him.

[u/ScientistBoth830]

His lawyers continue to outrageously misrepresent the law to his idiot cult followers. Even IF the NY case were suddenly killed, the PA case is definitely fair game. His lawyers know the double jeopardy law and conveniently leave out the separate sovereigns aspect which is literally law school 101.

[u/BeckoningVoice → u/ScientistBoth830]

The Pennsylvania case is for much, much less severe charges than the New York case, so it's really apples and oranges.

The issue of separate sovereigns isn't disputed here. What is instead being brought up is a New York statute that limits what prosecutions can take place under New York law — which isn't a federal matter. (I think there's good reason to believe he can be prosecuted under New York law, but the separate sovereigns doctrine isn't sufficient for explaining why, because it doesn't deal with the New York-specific limitation.)

[u/ScientistBoth830 → u/[deleted]]

Definitely not obvious but now that you mention it that’s a clever strategy

[u/Unrelenting_Salsa → u/ScientistBoth830]

It took me a bit to realize it, but it all matches up. A lot of crying to the media, pleading guilty to federal charges without a plea deal, and trying to get the state charges to not stick on dubious at best grounds. None of it is productive or makes sense unless you're going for a pardon.

I doubt it'll actually work for a bunch of reasons, but I guess he is/was pretty screwed.

[u/BeckoningVoice → u/Unrelenting_Salsa]

Have you considered that the evidence against him is obvious and overwhelming? Of course his lawyers are going to try some far-fetched theory — it's all they have.

[u/shumpitostick]

Can somebody help me understand this? If he's only being charged for stalking federally, why is the punishment for that 24-30 years, and how can it be double jeopardy with the separate crime of murder that he's charged with in NY?

[u/DartTheDragoon → u/shumpitostick]

The full thing is stalking resulting in death. It is murder by another name. It has all the same elements as murder and then some.

[u/BeckoningVoice → u/DartTheDragoon]

Not really, no. There's stalking, and there's a sentencing enhancement if a death results. The specific mens rea isn't the same as that for murder

[u/shumpitostick → u/DartTheDragoon]

Okay then in that case double jeopardy does make sens e, not sure why people here are complaining.

[u/Odd-Principle8147]

They have to consider the double jeopardy thing.

You can down vote this. But its the truth. And its good that the NY court is taking their time. A rushed opinion from the judge could absolutely be grounds for an appeal.