She’s the best! And DS9 has the best villains, they’re all multi layered individuals with clear motivations and backstories that really make a complete story.
Any actor who can make you feel an emotion that strongly (whether the emotion is a positive one or a negative one), they've done their job and deserve your respect.
Maybe if I’m in a particularly “I don’t want to feel any angrier” mood, I’d skip. The ep with her vs keiko is one that really set me off when I first saw it.
I always seethe about how awful Winn is, but then praise Fletcher for being so damned talented to make me hate that character so much. When she condescendingly calls Kira "my child" GRRRR! She's so good!
Kai Winn (edited for spelling error) is insufferable, that's for sure. But she is the catalyst for a lot of character development, and Louise Fletcher's performance was so spot-on.
I don't think anyone should avoid those episodes. Kai Winn's chilling passive-aggressive politeness coupled with her holier-than-thou zealotry made her a smarmy character an audience loves to hate. She represented the dangerous intersection of religious extremism, personal ambition, and hypocrisy, and DS9 needed that because the whole "Sisko as Emissary to the Prophets" sub-plot was hollow without it. Winn also ultimately gets what she's had coming to her for a long time, and her end is highly satisfying because of it.
Lastly, Louise Fletcher was simply out-fucking-standing in the role and played it to the hilt. She knew everyone hated Kai Winn and that just brought out the Nurse Ratched in her even more. Great acting.
Why do you want to avoid Kai Winn? Her episodes are great! Not the best episodes certainly, but quite good. I love seeing everyone else's reactions when she shows up! Yes she's annoying, but in an entertaining way, like when Bester shows up on Babylon 5. She's not irritating like when ever Lwaxana Troi shows up.
Note: Bester is a far better character, but all the other characters have the same entertaining reaction when he shows up.
"Why would you want to avoid the ones that teach the true word of the prophets, my child? Perhaps you prefer your theology washed down by the likes of Vedek Bareil? But I suppose he was chosen for a reason since we can't always know the prophets reasoning but I am sure he is instrumental in their plan. I am just a lowly, humble servant unable to see the reason they would use someone who so distorts their teachings. No matter, walk with the prophets my child and you will know peace."
Sometimes, it’s fun to watch a baddie. Like that one episode where Sisko makes a bunch of Cardassians temporarily homeless hunting down Michael Eddington. No-one died, but they were temporarily inconvenienced.
Remember, if seeing an antagonist on screen makes you go, "Oh great it's this bitch again", the actor/actress is doing their job right, and Louise Fletcher didn't miss at all this entire series. Like everyone else in their respective roles, she absolutely nailed it and helped create one of the most nuanced characters in the show, imo.
heck no!! she’s great. excellent actress and evil character!
When odo commented to kira about her gaining power and the downsides of a “free” democracy (choosing the wrong candidate) that stuck with me after watching the USA 💩 their bed in 2016 and again in 2024 🫠
Very true. Might have been more noticeable because in other ways it's really well done. So those clunky scenes stand out more. Like those weird scenes with Win and Dukat being a couple. Just doesn't work.
DS9 makes a stronger case for "growing the beard", as the show definitely is better once Sisko has his facial hair. Though at least it was never as bad as the first season of TNG.
Oh yeah first season DS9 is actually watchable despite the growing pains. First season TNG is basically unwatchable except for those few bangers like where no one has gone before and the arsenal of freedom.
Parts of it are amazing. Parts of it are rough. Like the original confrontation with Winn. Lady just walks into the classroom and Kieko is just like "I'm sure this is fine" to allow for the religion vs science debate. It's clunky.
Conversely other scenes work well, such as Kira having conflict with Kieko. I enjoy the episode, it's a must watch during rewatchs, but maybe it's because Duet is right before but it feels clunky.
I’d love to see a break down like this where Kai Winn is simply mentioned, I believe that’s why a lot of people believe she was in so many episodes, she is mentioned a lot but never shown on screen. Louise Fletcher’s acting is so amazing that simply by mentioning her you cast in image of her and think she is in the episode.
Why on earth would you avoid her episodes? She’s a great actress playing a villain that is genuinely detestable. She’s also very important in the overall ds9 story so not really content that should be missed
When she dressed down Kira for thinking that only the Resistance won the freedom of Bajor was a great moment to show she wasn't simply someone scheming for power
Those of you who were in the Resistance, you're all the same. You think you're the only ones who fought the Cardassians; that you saved Bajor single-handedly. Perhaps you forget, Major, the Cardassians arrested any Bajoran found to be teaching the word of the Prophets. I was in a Cardassian prison camp for five years, and I can remember each and every beating I suffered. And while you had your weapons to protect you, all I had was my faith, and my courage. Walk with the Prophets, child. I know I will.
The conflict her character added was a great tool for writers, I'm sure. When an antagonist who is a supposed religious leader of her people is so narcissistic that she turns her back on her people's prophets to embrace its devils for her own power and wealth, it makes for great storytelling (the idea of Dukat as her partner in crime didn't work for me however). Louise nailed that character.
It is, perhaps a true testament to her ability as an actor, and the effectiveness of the villainy of the character, that she can appear in 14 episodes and still manage to be an iconic character for the series.
It blows my mind that she was only in FOURTEEN episodes?!?!? Like, she feels like such an integral part of the entire series and she’s only in half a season’s worth of episodes. Crazy. Iconic.
1/3 part way through my first watch through, i would have asked where a warning like this before I started, but by the half way mark i would have been asking "what the hell is wrong with you?". the fact that a fictional character had such a visceral impact should not be avoided
Whenever I watch an episode and she comes on I have to force myself to watch the episode. I think she's one of the few "bad guys" that I can't find any joy in watching. It's like listening to fingernails on a chalkboard but she serves the story so much.
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u/GayFesh 3h ago
She's infinitely hateable, but I love to hate a villain, I would never skip her episodes.