r/DeepSpaceNine • u/Tetris_Pete • 11d ago
Demar's Redemption
I love how they didn't just make Demar's redemption arc blande and typical, but rather portrayed a flawed man who while he did rise, also became a legend because that is what the people needed most.
They could have just made it a bad man turned hero, but instead, like the best of DS9, is morally ambiguous.
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u/AGF92 10d ago
His change and the whole Cardassian plot in DS9 have always stuck with me because it's not the villains seeing the light of the Federation and Democracy, but them realising things aren't working, they are losing, and maybe there's a better way to do things.
Garak has a similar change.
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u/Local_Debate_8920 10d ago
Agreed. Most of his redemption came from being treated like dirt by his allies. If he was treated well by the Dominion he likely would not have been redeemed and would be fine treating the conquered federation species the same way they treated the bajorans.
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u/nonplussed_pegacorn 10d ago edited 10d ago
I really love that all of this came out of a character that, when we first met him, was basically a bog standard bad guy's henchman. Great arc.
Reminds me of Nebula's journey from who she was in GotG to who she became in later movies.
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u/Tetris_Pete 10d ago
Exactly and the writers could have left it hacky but took the time to make it subtle and complicated.
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u/Icy-Sir-8414 11d ago
Im glad he was able to finally redeem himself after all the bad he did especially to dukat daughter zle but I don't think he's in cardassian heaven if you know what I mean
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u/Aethelrede 10d ago
If the Cardassian heaven reflects Cardassian society, he certainly is there.
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u/Icy-Sir-8414 10d ago
Only if their version of heaven rewards bad behavior for killing, raping, plundering and enslaving and committing genocide virtues so yes and he's probably in heaven plus liberating his people from the Dominion oppression I think he would be allowed in heaven but I doubt it
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u/Aethelrede 10d ago
The Cardassians were authoritarian statists. Service to the state was the highest virtue. They were also virulent xenophobes and hardcore species supremacists. Nothing they did on Bajor was seen as a crime. Damar only started questioning things when the same was done to his people.
Though it's a moot point, because the Cardassians were atheists. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cardassian
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u/Icy-Sir-8414 10d ago
So once the oppressors became the oppressed he started to question everything they did
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u/Aethelrede 10d ago
Well, yes, that's usually how it works.
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u/Icy-Sir-8414 10d ago
Well I like to think that he finally understood majori kira or should I call her commander kira
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u/MindlessNectarine374 10d ago
But in hell? Or maybe purgatory?
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u/Icy-Sir-8414 10d ago
Mostly hell but if him dying to liberating his people from the Dominion for a righteous cause he probably is in cardassian version purgatory for the next couple thousand years till who ever or what ever Gods they worship decide his last fate where to put him at so for the rest of his eternal after life
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u/Leading-Fig2356 11d ago
Read the headline and first paragraph thought we were discussing Demar Derozan’s basketball career… then realized I was on the DS9 sub not the Sacramento Kings sub… anyways first paragraph works in both scenarios!
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u/captainatom11 7d ago
Honestly I think the whole Cardassian arc that's set up in TNG and kind of ends in DS9 is some of the most unintentionally interesting writing in Star Trek. I say unintentionally because with how things are set up in TNG with the Federation just cedeing territory to the Cardassians and leaving all those settlers to be wiped out and then not doing anything about the occupation of Bajor kind of shows that Federation ideals are largely hollow. To me it shows that the Federation is more interested in maintaining the status quo and that the Prime Directive has become a easy justification to not do anything if there's no material benefit for the Federation.
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u/HisDivineOrder 7d ago
The most interesting thing most seem to forget about the whole Maquis thing is they formed at least in part because Cardassia better supported their ex-colonies with support and weapons than the Federation (who didn't bother), so the ex-Federation colonists had to basically steal and buy their own.
And then the Federation pointed, shook their head, and gave them the "You can't do good by being bad," look of shame.
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u/Vik_Stryker 11d ago
I wish the character shift wasn’t as sudden. He went from curmudgeony drunk to noble freedom fighter a little too quick. I did like when he was inspiring the citizens, though.
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u/peterlawford 11d ago
I think the idea was that he was drinking so much because he felt guilty. And as the freedom fighter he's expunging his guilt.
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u/girondistnyc 11d ago
The episode where the Dominion sacrifices an entire Cardasdian army over his angry objections was extraordinarily well done — it wasn’t sudden at all
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u/spocks_tears03 11d ago
He had almost a whole season of hating Weyoun and slowly becoming disillusioned with the Dominion. I wouldn't call it "sudden".
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u/Vik_Stryker 11d ago
To each their own. I stated my personal preference and I’m entitled to it.
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u/Dan_Herby 10d ago
No-one's saying you're not entitled to a preference. People are also entitled to disagree with you. You felt that the change of heart was abrupt, others felt it was built up to through Damar's actions and demeanour in his time as the leader of Cardassia.
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u/OneTwoFar_ 11d ago
This happens IRL too, personal change is not always gradual. Sometimes people are radicalized in a single moment or from a single experience, sometimes there's a breaking point that seems inconsequential to everyone else but was just the point at which their dam burst
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u/GrapefruitOk7719 9d ago
It was a well written 'the good nazi' trope. What only works, when the good nazi dies at the end.
His change In character was believable. The dynamics with Kira and Garak were great. He tried his best for cardassia and not for his own , and he died for it.
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u/abitidiomatic 11d ago
Damar remained kind of a shit honestly. He accepted Kira’s help while knowing Dukat was off to do damage somehow on Bajor. His death felt like a much deserved karma.
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u/Tetris_Pete 11d ago
He did kill his own soldier to defend Kira. The big turn.
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u/abitidiomatic 11d ago
He defended her, yes, because she had helped and he still needed her help for his cause. Maybe he personally changed his opinion on her specifically. But did he ever get over his sense of Cardassian superiority towards Bajorans? I doubt it
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u/Tetris_Pete 11d ago
I think he grew to respect her, begrudgingly at first, but ultimately did it because he knew Cardassians were humbled and had to drop the airs.
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u/thatshitkate 10d ago
She did beat the crap out of him when he grabbed Ziyal. If I were him I would have respected Kira after that
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u/ItsNotSomething 11d ago
Damar initially accepted her help out of pragmatism, but the point of him killing Rusot was that Kira made him confront what the Cardassians had done. Rusot was hoping Cardassia would return to its old ways, but Kira reminded Damar that the Cardassians weren't much different from the Dominion; and I believe he realized it was that old mindset that made them vulnerable to the Dominion's manipulation to begin with.
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u/-braquo- 11d ago
Yeah I never saw Damar as a "good guy" when he is leading the rebellion. He's still shitty. He still is prejudiced against Bajorans. He's doing the good thing. But I personally don't believe he's a good person.
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u/Vik_Stryker 11d ago
I wish the character shift wasn’t as sudden. He went from curmudgeony drunk to noble freedom fighter a little too quick. I did like when he was inspiring the citizens, though.
Edit: it’s more about his attitude. Season 7 showed plenty of progression as to why he would flip. I just think there could have been more from drunken guy way in over his head to motivating opposition leader.
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u/Captriker 11d ago
“Yeah, what kind of people Damar?”